Large Normal 208 - Fireworks Festival [End]

[Nero Cain]

My original town read on Lucky was a mostly holdover from UC. Claiming scum is WIFOM and every once in awhile there are scum that claim scum. The reason that scum get away with this is because bad/dumb town do it. I had felt like UC's scum claims were the type of Lulzy claims that come from silly town that think they are doing something useful. I had also felt like UC was an easy lynchbait target and I didn't really have an issue with Lucky's first content post like Rhah and Math did.

TBF, Lucky has seemed maybe a little lurky lately

but I agree that both cases against him have been crap.

this was my first little side eye against him. I'm sure you'll pull quotes that show me still town reading him (and I was) but yeah...I'm always going to have differing thoughts in my head.

My real concern with Lucky started with his quick hammer of Math. Being on a scum lynch is a tremendous amount of town cred and scum desperately trying to get on and it also had the added benefit of cutting off discussion and ending any mass claim. If Lucky is scum then I think this points somewhat to scum being in the unclaimed trash.

Luckys quick hammer on Math was terrible and I looked back in my post log. UC was trying to paint me as an Alisae buddy so that could be a thing.

Lucky why didn't you claim yesterday?

I will probably not vote ass.

Didn't need to. I was in full control of the lynch with my hammer, why then add my role, it would only benefit scum to know at that point.

-1 nero

I think it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask why he didn't claim yesterday so I'm not the biggest fan of the slight pushback here.

I also feel like, if his reasoning for not claiming was that scum might shoot at him why he'd claim VT the next day. That seems very inconsistent.

I got my hammer, if you want my neck, come and get it.

scum threatening to self-hammer?

My experience with Lucky is that he's an unapologetically bad hypocrite. Doesn't necessarily mean he's town but that's aleast normal for him. I remember alot of people pushing UC as scum but it seems like the UC/Lucky hate has really died down since I've started pushing them. Who was pushing UC as scum and is now not pushing Lucky as scum, anyone still alive?

[Nero Cain]

UC was trying to paint me as an Alisae buddy so that could be a thing

.

is this a thing newb scum would do?

[Lucky2u]

UC was trying to paint me as an Alisae buddy so that could be a thing

.

is this a thing newb scum would do?

Yes

[Nero Cain]

thanks

[Lucky2u]

No problem dad

[pienyan]

Sauce replaces Flairs!

[Lucky2u]

Hi sauce... Good luck with catching up to this

[Transcend]

Oh boy

An alt replacing in on probable MyLo

[AxleGreaser]

So you asked a question but you have I think overlooked the ones I asked earlier. (see 5086)
I am fine with that. I will shortly re-ask the bits I still find most relevant in light of other events.

VOTE: Assemblerotws

@Assemblerotws

So who did you JK last night?

You ask a question, yet you vote before getting an answer? Can you explain why?

Yes.

A shortest but incomplete version is

So as to indirectly, indicate to him that simply providng what his night action was would not be enough to make the vote go away.
I think there can be detected a degree of scorn, in the request? AKA I indicated indirectly, I didn't really value/believe the result.
Which I thought would suggest to a towny, the way to not get scum read is do other town things not just use the PR claim as a crutch.

A slightly longer version,

In games that I play, there exist questions that I ask mainly because i want to know something, that I don't know. I don't work out predefined sets of scum like and town like responses for those questions.

That was not one of them. I could have reasonably expected he would tell us his night actions, when he turned up like the did the day before.

However that specific juxtapostion, of the vote and then the question was i hoped if he was town as stimulus to realise that simply riding on his role as he seemed to think he could the day before where he basically naked voted his scum read with no stated reasons. Wasn't enough.
By leaving what (I might want a town him to do) that wasn't just (use his role as crutch),
leaving that as open ended as possible, maximized the chance he could

volunteer

some stuff that looked towny.

When that didn't work the next post ended with

If you are town please play mafia.

Indicating he had not been.

If I had say instead demanded a reads list, and he gave it that would not in my eyes be as towny as if he volunteered it when simply pressured by a vote.
and then by the less vague but still open ended play mafia request.
Reactive (do as you are told) plays doing as you are told counts less than volunteering it. What I got instead of town vibes was 4999 and 5046. I got no sense of him

looking for scum at all

.

On the other hand if he had been scum, my intention was, he might already feel the pressure from when the wagon persisted after the claim on the day Viomi claimed.
Also if he had been scum, as I at the time thought he might be. Then the knowledge he had faked the early night actions. Then had faked yet another offensive Jk because they wanted Rhah dead and that then in order for him to be able to at last claim a defensive JK they had shot around his block. If he had been scum with that knowledge he had done, that post structured as it was might have visibly rattled him. Instead i could not read the reply either way (town/scum) in that regard. It was too small succinct and tight/mechanisitic (just the facts maam).

If there was some better way to coax towny post out of him, someone else or you could always have done that.

I am not really seeing whats important about this to you. Do you need yet more information?

[AxleGreaser]

Restructuring of a question I asked earlier.

These are parts of two post that you made earlier.

then the ***** I played with in the first flower game.

At axel, your other play style was very confrontational and not likely a successful way to remain

unlynched

as scum, so yeah I do see it as AI.

and yet in that game Flower Viewing Festival and a number of others, I did remain

unlnyched

.
So your claim that there is a Alignment indicative, scum reason for the style change is not aligned with objective truth.

What I didn't see was you do either before or after you made the read, was try to find out if there was town or other reason for the style change.

So a reasonably obvious (to me) town reason is:
and did that ***** play style help town lot? or just make lots of noise? (probably why it was seen as *****)
Did that playstyle let people just run away and say ***** (as they(TSO/Garmr) did in masquerade), whereas this game me questioning some people resulted (coincidently) in them replacing out, then flipping town. So frankly I am not sure everyone will agree I wasn't a **** here too. But I really did try.
And with number of people my approach let me see the towniness in their posting.

So my question to you is.
Was there a reasonably obvious town (and personal) reason for the change in how I play?
Why didn't you seem to consider or look for that?
Do you now see the claim you made about the style change, is not AI. As my old playstyle also tended not to get lynched.

FYI: I assert the style change was decision made quite some time ago before the game and is thus not a town tell.
(its was also related to the discussion in the geriatric players thread, That i had before the game.)
So while without that it might actually be town indicative (pro town)(less noise in thread is good for town) I assert it wasn't even made because i rolled town. I made the decision some time ago.

Please either explain how it is in fact scum indicative or ...

What is concerning me is:
What you appear to be doing is looking for a way i can be called scum. A theory in search of facts.

Now that could be you just tunneling the idea or it could be scum painting.

Help me see which it is please.

[I Am Innocent]

Axle i hated playing with you last game. You frustrated me as town, power role town that got me undue attention and an early claim/exit as I recall. But there is value in that play style. I’ve seen twoface act the same way and when a player like that tunnels on scum it is terrible for the scum team. So while I hated it last game I still see value in it.

So I was wary from the beginning. Factor in this change in play style I was wary from the beginning + any lack of push on maths slot + leading the efforts against town JKer, yes I think you are at/near the top of the list of players who will flip red.

Unless I missed it, I didn’t see you or Nero in your recent posts 1) claim/reclaim and 2) tell me who you are currently scumreading (besides Nero on lucky which is obv as his vote is there).

Why no responses on these two items yet?

[I Am Innocent]

Axle your vote history looks like this

Nero (short lived rvs type vote)
Quick
Whiskers
Gerry
Smocaine
Assemble

Interesting so many living players have voted whiskers this game (me, lucky, Nero, axle), once again I don’t think I want to push whiskers today.

[pienyan]

Whiskers has been prodded.

[I Am Innocent]

Whiskers has been prodded.

Happy thanksgiving Pie!

[Whiskers]

add'l

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[Whiskers]

1s dayvig 1 jk and 2 masons

Hmmm

what??
in what world is that "weak"??

That's more power roles than a standard newbie game. Dayvig is strong. JK that doesn't ever block any town powers is just an improved Doc-- which is strong. 2 Masons is more than standard 0 masons.

[Transcend]

Whiskers, What are your thoughts on iai's town case for lucky?

[Whiskers]

I stopped reading Iai's posts when they became

5 VOTECOUNTS IN A ROW

Hmmm this is an interesting result

[Transcend]

Not a vca fan?

[Whiskers]

iirc his case was something like "lucky voted mathblade and whiskers voted mathblade so lucky couldnm't

poosibly

be scum"

[Whiskers]

"hnmmmmmm interesting result" isn't vca.

[Transcend]

I mean yeah busses happen

Just not sure if this was the case or not

[Transcend]

Still no word from NuFlairs

[Transcend]

• Our newest member Sauce

>joins the site
>automatically replaces into this game
>doesn't even fucking post

Hmmm

[pienyan]

.