Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[UC Voyager]

MOD NOTES

UC Voyager replaces lucca261. Please thank and welcome UC Voyager!.

*sigh*

?

[Impede]

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

There's some definite fence–sitting happening. Can't say if there is an actual attempt at pocketing, but I don't really know UCVs meta

[CultOfAthena]

Because the reasoning in cy's response is only true if he is Town. Scum!cy obviously knows whether or not scum would be on the wagon and could easily prove it if he really wanted to.

What? Elaborate on this - cy's 39 seems entirely separated from his alignment.

The only way that cy cannot prove this to be true is if he is Town. Scum can easily prove this, they just wouldn't want to. The phrasing suggests that cy did not consider this.

No scum player with two brain cells to smash together would consider it either - it's such a far fetched idea that I don't think it's worth basing your read around.

Post #90 from Zaraki is a hot mess. There's a lot that's weird here... like he says he townread cy between 39 and 50 when he posted that read on #43. Gives cy credit both for my reasoning (dumb tell), but also having a well-composed post which... isn't really something that is hard to fake. Big probability argument that doesn't prove anything. This all looks like bs to me, and this seems like a really excessive explanation to his initial read in #43. I don't believe for a second this was his reasoning at the time he posted his townread of cy. Leaning scum on him, and if Zaraki is scum, would not be surprised if one of cy or Comm turns up scum as well.

I like this.

Sesq looking good. Lucky looking scummy, Luca too. (Did we seriously have a Lucca, Luca and Lucky? Can we lynch of these characters on general principle?)

Interested to hear the reasoning on your Luca read - it's opposite to the seeming consensus.

[UC Voyager]

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

There's some definite fence–sitting happening. Can't say if there is an actual attempt at pocketing, but I don't really know UCVs meta

depending on who you ask


according to Luca, i am always scummy. (not true) regardless of alignment, but I joke around as town and don't try.

[CultOfAthena]

@laserguy lets not policy lynch, plus lucca replaced out, so there is just a Luca and Lucky

Where did you get the idea of a policy lynch from Laser's 167?

giving lucky a town pass for sheer effort.
he copuld be very good scum, but hes not a day 1 lynch

...what? Thanks for town reading me, but this is absolutely the wrong reason to.

I'm pretty sure I like this - it's not often that I see scum questioning townreads on them.

I like the bit about scum trying to get on a townblock. The only problem with it is that there are two "blocks" forming in this game right now that are buddying each other pretty heavily, and the way I see it, you could have scum in either or both.

That's true. The important part to look at is how each person joined (or attempted to join) the townblock - through interactions or through sheeping the general consensus.

Nyegh. After looking at 90, it is a hot mess. I think I fucked up along the lines. (won't lie, I'm not the greatest with percentages so I had an easier time with cy's 4 posts). I was honestly trying to go for an objective analysis, but I guess I fell into the confirmation bias anyways.

Although I feel I townread too early, as he hardly posts. Then again, still a town lean.

I feel Sesq and Luka are def town. As for the other reads? I haven't got my thoughts organized yet. Maybe Impede too? He seems to be getting townier and townier.

Don't try to play mafia like a game of sudoku. I know it feels better to base things off of objectivity but this is a subjective game - put your reads out there, focus on your personal opinions and try to analyze the opinions of others.

I find it very strange how you kept rather silent until this case formed on you, and you started to post again. It makes little to no since.

Does it really not make sense? Think about it.

[CultOfAthena]

Oh hell RVS is over. Need to remove this.
UNVOTE:

It always seems bad to me when people do this, but I'm not sure if it's a scumtell or not.

@Laser:

why do I look scummy?

In this type of game, I feel it is very likely there is going to be a lot of SvS infighting early on. You and Lucky's interaction has this vibe to me... you start with a discussion about Comm's intentions, but very quickly Comm is sidelined out of the discussion without any really input from him and you proceed to tunnel each other for the next six pages. The fact that Comm actually commented on your discussion at #100 and neither of you either asked him a question or wanted him to weigh in seems to suggest that neither of you are really interested in Comm at all. This is particularly unsettling since as of #172 don't actually think Lucky is scum, in which case it's not clear to me why you've spent so much energy on this. I'm leaning SvS on this whole interaction.

Good analysis, with the caveat that I think at some point Luca and Lucky's interaction stopped being about Comm and start being about theory or the validity of reads.

MOD NOTES

UC Voyager replaces lucca261. Please thank and welcome UC Voyager!.

*sigh*

?

Don't worry about it.

[Sesq]

Obvious Scum Gets Caught And Moves To The Side With All The Town

also, don't be like "well, you're actually kinda wrong about these things;" when you can't say why i am, because i am not, because i have never made any mistake this entire game. i am the flawless townie. Breathe. Breathe.

you still look like scum.

Lynch me then. If you're going to be irrational and not provide measured responses and confirmation bias me the entire game, it would be easier for me and better for town if we got it over with.

this buzzword string is a fucking perfect storm of comedy

@voy its not ate. its lamist

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

Youre still not providing an example, because you can't provide one. We are just evaluating people's reactions in interactions and deciding ourselves wether it's coming from scum or town. Let's turn this around Luca, we are several pages in, what are your reads and why? **disclaimer, I will be using your own logic to your reads, so unless you read the entire playlist as null, I'll expect you to defend your opinions against "There is no particular reason for you to believe that X is Y"

This is kind of irrational and not town-productive. You must know that you would never get the level of rationale you required in 89. Why are you pretending like it was a fair request? And how would you define "Luca logic"?

That's the point though. He was never going to be able to provide me an example of solid proof in a nightless vanilla game, yet he was disagreeing with me because I didn't have this thing that literally cannot exist. There will be no cop guilty level proof, so we have to read things and make our opinion. I made my opinion, he disagreed with it for a nonsense reason.

"if he doesnt provide me proof that this thing that can obviously happen has happened, even though its obvious it can if i think about it for more than 5 seconds he is SCUM LYING!1111!!!111!"

fucking done with you.

---

wow athena, that's a lot of nothing you've said.

[Impede]

Don't worry about it.

Draaaaaamaaaaa

[Luca Blight]

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

There's some definite fence–sitting happening. Can't say if there is an actual attempt at pocketing, but I don't really know UCVs meta

I do, and I strongly suspect he is scum.

Is there any particular reason you don't want to vote UCV?

[Impede]

this buzzword string is a fucking perfect storm of comedy

@voy its not ate. its lamist

The only buzzword was confirmation bias, for the record. It is a bit LAMIST admittedly. I just wanted you to say something meaningful instead of just posting your blurted out, hair-trigger reactions

Pedit: @Luca: I tend to be a strike two voter. Once I convince myself that I agree there's scumminess on more than one occasion, I'll hop right on. I haven't ISO'd UCV yet, so give me a minute.

[CommKnight]

{Luca, Cult, Sesq}
{cy, UC}
{Zaraki, Impede, Laser}
{Lucky, moza, Zulfy}

Getting a better feel of people now and moza and Lucky are definitely on the bottom right now. Luca, Cult and Sesq are off the table for today (though Sesq is definitely being looked at more in future days), Cy and UC are more town leans and the rest are more meh. Zulfy is more of an educated gut feel.

People should vote Lucky.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not particularly scumreading Lucky at the moment - although I disagree with most of his posts I'm inclined to believe his intentions were genuine. He needs to post about other stuff though, that's for sure.

UCV is my clearest scumread and I don't see myself budging from that today unless something significant happens.

[Luca Blight]

I'm curious to hear why you townread Athena, Comm.

[Lucky2u]

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

There's some definite fence–sitting happening. Can't say if there is an actual attempt at pocketing, but I don't really know UCVs meta

depending on who you ask


according to Luca, i am always scummy. (not true) regardless of alignment, but I joke around as town and don't try.

It's cute that you think you have a meta UCV. Frankly you are just as likely to be a secret Jester as scum. I don't get that Luca has such confidence in his scum read of you but I believe that he thinks he caught you.

[Lucky2u]

Obvious Scum Gets Caught And Moves To The Side With All The Town

also, don't be like "well, you're actually kinda wrong about these things;" when you can't say why i am, because i am not, because i have never made any mistake this entire game. i am the flawless townie. Breathe. Breathe.

you still look like scum.

Lynch me then. If you're going to be irrational and not provide measured responses and confirmation bias me the entire game, it would be easier for me and better for town if we got it over with.

this buzzword string is a fucking perfect storm of comedy

@voy its not ate. its lamist

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

Youre still not providing an example, because you can't provide one. We are just evaluating people's reactions in interactions and deciding ourselves wether it's coming from scum or town. Let's turn this around Luca, we are several pages in, what are your reads and why? **disclaimer, I will be using your own logic to your reads, so unless you read the entire playlist as null, I'll expect you to defend your opinions against "There is no particular reason for you to believe that X is Y"

This is kind of irrational and not town-productive. You must know that you would never get the level of rationale you required in 89. Why are you pretending like it was a fair request? And how would you define "Luca logic"?

That's the point though. He was never going to be able to provide me an example of solid proof in a nightless vanilla game, yet he was disagreeing with me because I didn't have this thing that literally cannot exist. There will be no cop guilty level proof, so we have to read things and make our opinion. I made my opinion, he disagreed with it for a nonsense reason.

"if he doesnt provide me proof that this thing that can obviously happen has happened, even though its obvious it can if i think about it for more than 5 seconds

he is SCUM LYING!1111!!!111!"

fucking done with you.

---

wow athena, that's a lot of nothing you've said.

I never called Luca scum or implied I was scum reading him. Did you think I did or are you misrepresenting me?

[Luca Blight]

I'm not fully able to explain why I strongly believe UCV is scum other than that I know his meta well, and he knows I know his meta well. He has been trying to buddy me because he knows I have a tendency to tunnel on him when I scumread him, and he was trying to prevent that.

Basically if you townread me then I implore you to trust me and vote UCV - there is no better lynch for D1.

[Lucky2u]

{Luca, Cult, Sesq}
{cy, UC}
{Zaraki, Impede, Laser}
{Lucky, moza, Zulfy}

Getting a better feel of people now and moza and Lucky are definitely on the bottom right now. Luca, Cult and Sesq are off the table for today (though Sesq is definitely being looked at more in future days), Cy and UC are more town leans and the rest are more meh. Zulfy is more of an educated gut feel.

People should vote Lucky.

Putting Sesq in the top line of your reads implying him a strong town read and then adding that statement in the parenthesis is very weird. Are you trying to have your cake (buddy him now) and eat it too (reserve the right to support his lynch later)?

[Lucky2u]

I'm not fully able to explain why I strongly believe UCV is scum other than that I know his meta well, and he knows I know his meta well. He has been trying to buddy me because he knows I have a tendency to tunnel on him when I scumread him, and he was trying to prevent that.

Basically if you townread me then I implore you to trust me and vote UCV - there is no better lynch for D1.

That's an oddly specific conclusion into UCV's motivation. While it's true I have a slight town read on you, we are far from agreeing on logic with each other right now.

[UC Voyager]

Zulfy is yet to post comm. unless i missed his post/s

[Sesq]

as i said, im done with lucky because he is too terrible at this game to warrant my time.

as for ucv wagon... i can see where it's coming from? but he feels somewhat honest. ill have to see more

[Lucky2u]

I'm obviously taking it to the extreme but I don't feel my reason for voting comm was wifom at all

How is it not? Scum!Comm could be trying to distract from actual scum and Town!Comm could be reaction fishing. Both of these are equally legitimate possibilities, esp since we were so close to RVS. Do you disagree?

Reading back and I see I missed this.

Disagree that they are both possibilities? no. I disagree that the town version of that scenario is what was happening, I believe it was the scum version of that scenario. If he really was reaction fishing, which again he never stated he was doing that he just implied he might, then wow did he pull it off in the dumbest way possible.

I'm still trying to work out you in my head if you are noob or scum Impede. The thing that has pinged me the most from you was that "Lynch me" comment. 9/10 that comment comes from scum. However, given sesq being an unapologetic douche I can kind of see why you said it. In your 226 you fence sat about UCV fence sitting. Fence sitting-ception if you will. He previously topped a reads list for you as town, still the same?

[Lucky2u]

as i said, im done with lucky because he is too terrible at this game to warrant my time.

as for ucv wagon... i can see where it's coming from? but he feels somewhat honest. ill have to see more

Oh no... whatever will I do without your insightful...

Spoiler:

This is so stupid, that all I can say is what

this is too egregious to continue.

the worst post in all of mafia

fucking done with you.

...commentary on my gameplay?

Please... comeback...

[Sesq]

no name calling laughing at me and saying im terrible is all good though

[UC Voyager]

as i said, im done with lucky because he is too terrible at this game to warrant my time.

as for ucv wagon... i can see where it's coming from? but he feels somewhat honest. ill have to see more

Oh no... whatever will I do without your insightful...

Spoiler:

This is so stupid, that all I can say is what

this is too egregious to continue.

the worst post in all of mafia

fucking done with you.

...commentary on my gameplay?

Please... comeback...

this is not that good

Im hoping your joking with the gif because you are telling someone to stop trying to read you. there is a difference between reading and commenting on your gameplay

why do you think he is commenting on your gameplay?
he is saying why your posts are not town motivated

[Lucky2u]

My apologies Sesq.

However, given sesq

is playing like an

unapologetic douche I can kind of see why you said it.

There, fixed it.