Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Vote Count 1.4

CommKnight - (1) Misatange
Creature -
northsidegal -
Aster - (1) Creature
texcat - (1) Pisskop
Viomi -
mutantdevle - (6) Aster, northsidegal, texcat, Lalendra, Viomi, Commknight
pisskop -
Chip Butty - (2) wilky, Assemblerotws
Lalendra -
wilky -
CityElectric -
MisaTange -
Assemblerotws -

Not Voting: mutantdevle, CityElectric, Chip Butty
With 14 Alive. Takes 8 To Lynch. 7 To No Lynch.
Deadline Timer (expired on 2017-12-10 12:00:00)

Prodding: Assemblerotws
[/b]

[mutantdevle]

What I don't understand is that Mutant keeps going back to "I was giving her the option to roleclaim." Everyone has the option to roleclaim at any point in the game, she didn't need your permission to do it. And you misunderstood what I said about her being lynchbait. I didn't say that a fakeclaim would make her lynchbait; I said that whether she fakeclaims or claims or doesn't claim, SHE IS NOW LYNCHBAIT purely because you brought attention to her. Whether or not scum would have drawn that conclusion on their own is irrelevant; you didn't need to point it out to them. At best it's anti-town.

Oh yes because randomly declaring your role with seemingly no motivation to do so would go down well wouldn't it? Considering how people have reacted to my train of thought I feel like I'd be one of the few people that would be accepting of someone doing that. By asking if she wants to role claim I am giving her the comfortability of doing so. It looks less scummy if you have the footing to role claim instead of doing it out of the blue. I have mentioned this at least twice in my posts.

And perhaps I am not familiar with the term lynchbait but I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched. Assuming I have that correct then I would fail to see how you think textcat could be lynchbait. Literally no one has expressed any intention of lynching her so the idea of bringing attention to her role would make her lynchbait is ridiculous as attention has been brought to her yet she is not at any risk of being lynched.

[wilky]

Curiousity: Did you know that defending townreads is among town's objectives?

Of course, so fancy actually explaining your reads because so far its mostly been "X is scum, Y is town and ignore Mutant"

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

[mutantdevle]

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

[wilky]

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Think you need to grow some thicker skin.

Any other views on Creature yet Mutant?

What other reads do you have in the game so far?

[mutantdevle]

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Think you need to grow some thicker skin.

Any other views on Creature yet Mutant?

What other reads do you have in the game so far?

I'm not offended by what you said, I just don't see why you needed to make that comment :3

I don't like the way in which he posts (several posts in a row that just consist of a sentence each) but I still think he is town based on his willingness to blindly defend me so early into my wagon.

I have reads written out in a rough draft of my post that I plan to make when I am lynched but I think they need some work. In general, I'm not willing to post my reads yet until either I'm forced to by being lynched or later during the day. (I've previously been scrutinised for posting reads too early in the game since joining this site).

[wilky]

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Think you need to grow some thicker skin.

Any other views on Creature yet Mutant?

What other reads do you have in the game so far?

I'm not offended by what you said, I just don't see why you needed to make that comment :3

I don't like the way in which he posts (several posts in a row that just consist of a sentence each) but I still think he is town based on his willingness to blindly defend me so early into my wagon.

I have reads written out in a rough draft of my post that I plan to make when I am lynched but I think they need some work. In general, I'm not willing to post my reads yet until either I'm forced to by being lynched or later during the day. (I've previously been scrutinised for posting reads too early in the game since joining this site).

You seem to be really sitting on the fence on creature for me. You say you think he's town but you've also expressed concern he is buddying you.

If you are town then why won't you want to share your reads list? That sounds a pretty anti-town position to me. You also realise you can't comment when you've been lynched no? No-one will critiscise you for posting reads I mean i've on seperate occasions posted reads on you, Chip Butty and Creature. No one has thrown any shade at me for making reads as that is the game.

[Lalendra]

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

Yeah, I really don't like 171 either but like...that's just SUCH obvious buddying. It's hard to see it as anything else but my god that would be blatant if that's what it was.

[Lalendra]

Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did.

Not to be sarcastic, but if this is the case, why did you ask it? Did you only realize how scummy it was after everyone pointed it out?

[Lalendra]

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Was your post in which you said "lynchbait is bait to be lynched" not sarcastic? That was how I read it.
And I misspoke when I used that term I think. What I meant to say is that she is more likely to be either lynched or NK'd because of the attention brought to her. I still say that just because you felt it was "obvious" that her role was objectively the best because she had the opportunity to pick first doesn't necessitate you pointing that out. I'm also confused about your motivation for doing it in the sense that you mentioned that you only wanted a yes or no, not an actual claim, but on the other hand you also said that you were giving her an opening to claim comfortably. Which was it? Again, I feel that she could have easily claimed without having someone give her an opening, and that at best, asking her that question exposed her strategy quite early in the game.

[mutantdevle]

You seem to be really sitting on the fence on creature for me. You say you think he's town but you've also expressed concern he is buddying you.

If you are town then why won't you want to share your reads list? That sounds a pretty anti-town position to me. You also realise you can't comment when you've been lynched no? No-one will critiscise you for posting reads I mean i've on seperate occasions posted reads on you, Chip Butty and Creature. No one has thrown any shade at me for making reads as that is the game.[/quot
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on my Creature read. I'm not on the fence as I think he is town. It's just I acknowledge the possibility that he is scum looking for town credit from my mislynch; it's not something I feel is likely to be true though.

And I'm not happy with how my reads list looks yet. If you really want it then I will refine it for you and post it.

Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did.

Not to be sarcastic, but if this is the case, why did you ask it? Did you only realize how scummy it was after everyone pointed it out?

I stand by my stance that there was nothing scummy about it (though I guess that's just the semantics of the question). As for realising I guess you could say I've since realised there are flaws in my statement. Eg. some aspects I have since reconsidered and the information/phrasing of the initial question could have used some work. I also feel that there is, in general, some town pressure on the idea of my wagon eg. if you don't think what I did was scummy then that makes you look scummy. I feel I would have fallen for that initial pressure and unvoted later.

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Was your post in which you said "lynchbait is bait to be lynched" not sarcastic? That was how I read it.
And I misspoke when I used that term I think. What I meant to say is that she is more likely to be either lynched or NK'd because of the attention brought to her. I still say that just because you felt it was "obvious" that her role was objectively the best because she had the opportunity to pick first doesn't necessitate you pointing that out. I'm also confused about your motivation for doing it in the sense that you mentioned that you only wanted a yes or no, not an actual claim, but on the other hand you also said that you were giving her an opening to claim comfortably. Which was it? Again, I feel that she could have easily claimed without having someone give her an opening, and that at best, asking her that question exposed her strategy quite early in the game.

I had no intention of being sarcastic in that post; I apologise if it came across that way. If I'm being sarcastic I usually do so in the form of an obvious joke rather than just being sassy.

I kind of understand what you mean by it making her more likely to be night killed but that would rely on all 3 of the scum being complete idiots. And I was not initially pointing it out in my original question. I only later pointed it out as justification for asking the question. As for the question itself if she had said yes obviously I would have wanted the role claim with it. A yes without a role claim would be in effect a no. By responding yes to the question that would have been me giving her the opening to claim comfortably. Her answer is no and I doubt that would change. Also, my question does not expose her strategy as she would always have had to do it somewhen within day 1. You make it sound like the strategy is a long-term thing. Originally, I did not think it would make a difference as to when during the day she'd hypothetically role claim but it has just occurred to me whilst writing this post that perhaps someone would wait to see if someone else role claims (probably by being put at L-1) before she felt it necessary to do so.

[wilky]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on my Creature read. I'm not on the fence as I think he is town. It's just I acknowledge the possibility that he is scum looking for town credit from my mislynch; it's not something I feel is likely to be true though.

And I'm not happy with how my reads list looks yet. If you really want it then I will refine it for you and post it.

As town you should really always be refining your reads list. Doesn't stop you sharing it, how about even just letting us know the parts you're most confident of the way I see it the only thing you have committed too is that you think Creature is town.

In post 208, Lalendra wrote:
In post 189, mutantdevle wrote:
Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did.

Not to be sarcastic, but if this is the case, why did you ask it? Did you only realize how scummy it was after everyone pointed it out?

I stand by my stance that there was nothing scummy about it (though I guess that's just the semantics of the question). As for realising I guess you could say I've since realised there are flaws in my statement. Eg. some aspects I have since reconsidered and the information/phrasing of the initial question could have used some work. I also feel that there is, in general, some town pressure on the idea of my wagon eg. if you don't think what I did was scummy then that makes you look scummy. I feel I would have fallen for that initial pressure and unvoted later.

I don't like this. You would've joined the wagon if it was on someone else even though you don't think it's scummy I am now again rethinking my thought that you are town and starting to lean more too scum on you again.

[MisaTange]

UNVOTE:

'cause that vote was from RvS.

FYI, re: mutant's rolefishing -- I agree with the fact that it's bad with Lalendra and NSG's reasons. I don't want to seem like a sheeping bastard tho.

I'd like to hear mutant's opinions regarding Creature and mutant's interactions being buddying though -- scum would like to keep their scumpartners alive if possible.

The main problem with mutant is that there ARE very few worlds/roles in which tex claiming is a good idea and admits so himself in 161, and even presumes the same playstyle. You may want to kill a Vengeful at night if they so strongly believe that someone is scum, and that they are right. AND YES! That does happen Day One. The PGO might make educated guesses (via daychat) on what the protectives will target at night and not/or use their ability that night. The Commuter may not claim because if they DO claim, it is somewhat pointless to claim to prevent protectives to waste their night action on you because you'll probably not be attacked because mafia thinks you used your night action. At this point this is WIFOM, which I believe is pointless discussion unless a nightkill happens. Fruit Vendor may be killed that night because it confirms themselves over time -- a redirector/tracker may see at least their action does nothing. A town roleblocker may rb the fruit vendor that it does nothing. This may not mean anything til there is 1-2 scum left.

This isn't even considering the fact that even softing what your power role is bad as well -- not so much "No, I'm not telling you what I picked, I'm gonna vote mutant" (not an actual vote) but so much --

No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.

and

No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.

No claim = no sympathy of being hammered. If you don't claim, you will get hammered.

I don’t want sympathy. Being hammered and role claiming has the same consequences. There is no way out for me or my role here.

which I think is the other main problem with mutant's Rolefishing Post™.

[Assemblerotws]

I personally think Mutant is newbtown. Not sure on anyone else yet.

[mutantdevle]

I don't like this. You would've joined the wagon if it was on someone else even though you don't think it's scummy I am now again rethinking my thought that you are town and starting to lean more too scum on you again.

The original town impression that it is scummy would have made me think it is scummy If I was not the one to be asking the question. I'm not yet familiar with what this website generally agrees is scummy and what isn't. As I'm the one defending the question rather than viewing a defence on it. Had I been in the other situation I likely would have left the situation believing that asking IF someone wants to role claim is always scummy and the only time you should ever mention someone else role claiming is if they are at L-1. As I have had to defend the question my opinion has remained the same that the question is not scummy since I've been forced to think about it more but instead I see how the logic behind the question is flawed.

As town you should really always be refining your reads list. Doesn't stop you sharing it, how about even just letting us know the parts you're most confident of the way I see it the only thing you have committed too is that you think Creature is town.

I'm happy with that compromise.


I believe northsidegal is town. She started the wagon on me and I don't think scum would have done that. I feel scum are more likely to be in the middle and later half of the wagon.

Aster is a slight town read for me but not too strong. Their misinterpretation of my questions feels genuine rather than forced.

Viomi I am leaning scum on. Her position on my wagon is both late and sheeping. She adds absolutely nothing opinion wise to my wagon.

I don't like how quiet pisskop is despite having played this setup before. As far as I know, no one else has played this setup before (correct me if I am wrong) so this lack of contribution os worrying from someone who is supposed to be more experienced here.

I agree with how not knowing scum are in the draft makes him seem like scum playing dumb. I recommend looking more into him after I'm misslynched.

CityEletric hasn't said much but since she didn't want to put me to L-1 that makes me think town.

MisaTange also hasn't said much but her approach to my wagon of questioning rather than accusing me makes me believe she is also town.

Anyone I haven't mentioned yet you can assume I consider null.

[Viomi]

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

Yeah, I really don't like 171 either but like...that's just SUCH obvious buddying. It's hard to see it as anything else but my god that would be blatant if that's what it was.

I mean, mutant is blatantly obvious scum asking for PR claims, and he isn't lynched yet, so... Maybe Creature thought the only way to save him would to be blatant as well?

[MisaTange]

Oh, and if it wasn't clear, I think Mutant is newbtown too. Maybe could be Creature's scumpartner but that's about it.

The talk about pisskop reminds me how his response to "why did you post intent to hammer" pings me intensely btw, so here we go:

VOTE: pisskop

This is Viomi's second PYP according to 86, which brings me into my next point:

Why aren't you voting Viomi?

[Viomi]

Oh, and if it wasn't clear, I think Mutant is newbtown too. Maybe could be Creature's scumpartner but that's about it.

The talk about pisskop reminds me how his response to "why did you post intent to hammer" pings me intensely btw, so here we go:

VOTE: pisskop

This is Viomi's second PYP according to 86, which brings me into my next point:

Why aren't you voting Viomi?

...?

[MisaTange]

Was talking to mutant :p. Thought it was obvious since I wasn't asking you to vote yourself

[wilky]

I don't like this. You would've joined the wagon if it was on someone else even though you don't think it's scummy I am now again rethinking my thought that you are town and starting to lean more too scum on you again.

The original town impression that it is scummy would have made me think it is scummy If I was not the one to be asking the question. I'm not yet familiar with what this website generally agrees is scummy and what isn't. As I'm the one defending the question rather than viewing a defence on it. Had I been in the other situation I likely would have left the situation believing that asking IF someone wants to role claim is always scummy and the only time you should ever mention someone else role claiming is if they are at L-1. As I have had to defend the question my opinion has remained the same that the question is not scummy since I've been forced to think about it more but instead I see how the logic behind the question is flawed.

As town you should really always be refining your reads list. Doesn't stop you sharing it, how about even just letting us know the parts you're most confident of the way I see it the only thing you have committed too is that you think Creature is town.

I'm happy with that compromise.


I believe northsidegal is town. She started the wagon on me and I don't think scum would have done that. I feel scum are more likely to be in the middle and later half of the wagon.

Aster is a slight town read for me but not too strong. Their misinterpretation of my questions feels genuine rather than forced.

Viomi I am leaning scum on. Her position on my wagon is both late and sheeping. She adds absolutely nothing opinion wise to my wagon.

I don't like how quiet pisskop is despite having played this setup before. As far as I know, no one else has played this setup before (correct me if I am wrong) so this lack of contribution os worrying from someone who is supposed to be more experienced here.

I agree with how not knowing scum are in the draft makes him seem like scum playing dumb. I recommend looking more into him after I'm misslynched.

CityEletric hasn't said much but since she didn't want to put me to L-1 that makes me think town.

MisaTange also hasn't said much but her approach to my wagon of questioning rather than accusing me makes me believe she is also town.

Anyone I haven't mentioned yet you can assume I consider null.

That bolded part is so flawed it's impossible to determine whether its coming from town or scum.

I do like the reasons on your read list though, none of it seems like its really forced and sounds pretty genuine whereas from scum I would've been looking for a reads list that was maybe clutching at straws. Especially in your situation.

[Viomi]

Was talking to mutant :p. Thought it was obvious since I wasn't asking you to vote yourself

I'm asking why would he be voting me? Why is me having played this setup before a reason for him to vote me?

[Viomi]

Was talking to mutant :p. Thought it was obvious since I wasn't asking you to vote yourself

I'm asking why would he be voting me? Why is me having played this setup before a reason for him to vote me?

Oh, you're referring to him thinking pisskop is scummy for having not said much despite playing this setup before. Gotcha.

[Viomi]

Was talking to mutant :p. Thought it was obvious since I wasn't asking you to vote yourself

I'm asking why would he be voting me? Why is me having played this setup before a reason for him to vote me?

Oh, you're referring to him thinking pisskop is scummy for having not said much despite playing this setup before. Gotcha.

Clearly the answer is that he's grasping at straws and that a lot of his reads aren't genuine. Hence why they're one-liners and despite pisskop and I acting similarly, he has completely different reads on us.

TL;DR he's scum

[Aster]

Pisskop is active lurking really badly. I'm not sure whether I can even call it "active" lurking anymore.

---

Creature is catching my attention as well. He isn't active-lurking nearly as much as pisskop, but he has made barely any posts longer than two lines (two posts, to be exact.) It's kinda funny how he states that "EE doesn't take mafia seriously" when I have yet to see the first insightful post from him.

I've read through his ISO and at some point he starts saying that he townreads mutant and thinks that mutant will flip town, but the only reason he ever stated for this is

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

This is the only reason he's ever stated to explain why he thinks mutant is town. If this is his only reason, then I think that the amount of buddying with mutant he's done is kind of excessive for the amount of evidence he has that mutant is town—in fact, "mutant doesn't know how mafia works" is not evidence mutant is town, at best it's a defense against some of the accusations.

At some point he jumps in with

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

Aside from my opinion that finding such a suspicious target so quickly actually makes this day

very

productive, it is notable that he advocates moving away from mutant without explaining why (is "unproductive" a reason?) When asked about it, he did somewhat explain this later in the following post:

It is, unless the whole day is about him and we forgot everywhere else.

I'd rather play the "What if mutant is town?" and be prepared if we end mislynching him.

If this is his only motivation, then I feel the demand of "end the mutant wagon & hunt scum elsewhere" to be a bit excessive. Especially the last part "choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant" should've been "possibly revisit the mutant wagon if we don't find better targets". The amount of evidence Creature has presented or acknowledged for mutant being town is really low, for the little confidence he should have (or has demonstrated) he seems awfully happy to get the bandwagon away from mutant.

All the above could be explained with the Creature&mutant scumbuddy theory. That said, if they were scumbuddies, I think mutant is putting awfully little effort in getting the bandwagon actually moved away compared to the amount of attention he's attracting to his connection with mutant.

At any rates, I've got my eyes on Creature as well.

---

At this point, I realise that I unfortunately only have a single vote and I can't cast it on everyone I'm suspicious of. As such, I established my list of suspicious players:

• mutantdevle;
  
• Creature;
  
• pisskop;
  
• Chip Butty.

[mutantdevle]

Oh, and if it wasn't clear, I think Mutant is newbtown too. Maybe could be Creature's scumpartner but that's about it.

The talk about pisskop reminds me how his response to "why did you post intent to hammer" pings me intensely btw, so here we go:

VOTE: pisskop

This is Viomi's second PYP according to 86, which brings me into my next point:

Why aren't you voting Viomi?

For some reason, I remembered the words said in 86 to be said by pisskop. That also answers why I have slightly different opinions on the 2 as I didn't realise Viomi had played the setup before as well. Also, I'm generally not voting yet as I do not feel I am in any position to vote and I feel like my votes would just be interpreted as trying to bring attention away from myself. I guess you could consider my hypothetical vote on Viomi though.

And Viomi how can you accuse me of being scummy for my reads being a single line when all of your posts are literally just single lines?

Viomi my problem with you is that your vote on me seems so forced. You have given little justification for why you are voting. Sure we can infer that you are voting for me for similar reasons that others are. But you have contributed nothing to that discussion and none of your posts are constructive. If you are going to vote for me, at least throw your own reasoning in rather than just stating I am scum. My reads are genuine from the point of view of being voted on. As wilky has said, my reads are not clutching at straws. Do you expect me to post paragraphs over why I feel a certain way about someone? Should I cite specific posts in my reads? Because I can if you want me to. But I can't help but notice you want me to put detail into my reads when you can't even be bothered to put detail in your single read on me.