Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[skitter30]

@mod:

my vote's on Serg

[Sergtacos]

@serg:

a) why are you scumreading me?

b) why do you think I'm scum *with dany* in particular?

In addition, Mulch had already claimed VT, so I also don't understand the meaning of "naked hammer". Should he have said "Sorry" or "I now sentence thee to death" first?

I just wanna say that I thought this was funny lol

And I largely agree with Implosion - I understand that dany had stated intent and that implosion had asked for the hammer, but it does look a bit odd for dany to naked hammer immediately after mulch called him scum. I don't know if it's scummy. It's weird and worth probing imo.

@dany:

Why did your posting style change so drastically at around the time Mulch replaced in?

While i was reading more, Mulch pinged me town af. If Mulch is scum this game then gg but so far I have him town locked.

UNVOTE: Mulch

If you are scum reading serg, I would like to know whether or not you think this is a white knight.

Is white-knighting the thing where scum defends a townie for towncred?

Cuz yeah I was getting those vibes at the very end of the day, especially from 783 and 787. I really don't like 787 because it feels like a) Serg knows Mulch is flipping town and b) that he was setting up a dany lynch to avenge Mulch once he did in fact flip town.

I think I wanna do this for now.

VOTE: Serg

obvious scum ^ danny is your partner i see. trying to protect danny. I mean you were the one who kept trying to lead the wagon on mulch when he was an obvious town read.

[Sergtacos]

Have you read my ISO? I'm pretty sure I have considered Mulch could be scum then changed it.

[Sergtacos]

Ah, 75% sure that sergetacos is scum. Sorry bud that I replaced.


He could be town, but i don't think so.

I'm gonna be looking at some other peolle to see who his partners could be. Who is serge voting rn?

I'm actually town. Please do tell me why you think im scum?

Ah, 75% sure that sergetacos is scum. Sorry bud that I replaced.

K, why?

Through meta. I have a scumtell on him. Basically, he acts more jokes, never gives reasons, and throws his vote around too much as Town. This game he's giving reasons and vote parking. Probably scum

[votes] Mulch[/votes]

While i was reading more, Mulch pinged me town af. If Mulch is scum this game then gg but so far I have him town locked.

UNVOTE: Mulch

duh

[Sergtacos]

Danny and Skitter is scum

[skitter30]

a) I don't think you actually think I'm scum here

b) I don't believe Mulch was an 'obvious town read'

c) You said me and dany were partners before I 'tried to protect dany', by which I assume you mean that I'm pushing you (who in turn is pushing dany) in 823, so I want to know where you were getting that at daystart.

d) You went from voting Mulch, to 'Mulch ping[ing] [you] town af', to unvoting him in the span of three posts over two minutes, and then proceeded to locktown him for the rest of the day. It's kinda hard for me to believe that you seriously considered he was scum in the first place, or that this read reversal was genuine, tbh.

e) I still think that 787 is kinda bad

[Wickedestjr]

Prod dodge. Been a busy last few days, I'll post here asaic

[Sergtacos]

a) I don't think you actually think I'm scum here

b) I don't believe Mulch was an 'obvious town read'

c) You said me and dany were partners before I 'tried to protect dany', by which I assume you mean that I'm pushing you (who in turn is pushing dany) in 823, so I want to know where you were getting that at daystart.

d) You went from voting Mulch, to 'Mulch ping[ing] [you] town af', to unvoting him in the span of three posts over two minutes, and then proceeded to locktown him for the rest of the day. It's kinda hard for me to believe that you seriously considered he was scum in the first place, or that this read reversal was genuine, tbh.

e) I still think that 787 is kinda bad

Because at the time I just logged in, started reading, felt like he was scum, but as i read more he gave me a strong town ping because I could see it from a town perspective instead of a scum perspective.

[Sergtacos]

You don't think I think you're scum here? Why? Explain why you think that.

[implosion]

Serg, mind justifying your reads in a bit more depth?

[Sephiroth]

I'm not sure Mulch's town flip really gives us much to work with. I'm a little bit disappointed that he couldn't be bothered to read the game since it pretty much assured he would be the day 1 lynch. Personally I don't see anything particularly scummy about Dany's intent to hammer and eventual hammer. It seemed to be the clear direction we were going and deadline was looming. The claim had dropped and Dany made his intent clear. So yeah I don't really see much of anything there.

I think an argument could be made that both Serg and Lalendra were whiteknighting, and you could even stretch that argument to cover Wicked who was pretty anti-Mulch lynch. I find the case against Lalendra the most convincing but I'll admit this could be a bit of confirmation bias since I scum read her pretty hard. Lalendra was consistently calling him town starting in 580. Its worth noting that this is right after the Mulch wagon gets serious (5 votes). Also worth noting is that Mulch had posted

dozens

of times by this point and what does Lalendra find to make him locktown? A single post in which he admitted that he didn't read the OP, and how it seems sincere. She also fails to actually interact with his other posts at all, but chooses a few low hanging fruit from skitter attacking Mulch and counters those points. Its ALSO noteworthy that in the midst of the barreling wagon on someone she proclaims as locktown, she chooses not to push any of the legitimate alternatives, but instead goes on this odd crusade against me based on arguments that frankly made no sense to the point of seeming insincere. To me this reads as someone who saw the wagon, knew Mulch's alignment and then found a random thing to hold up to justify her town read. Then rather than defend her 'lock town read' she found something that allowed her to keep her activity up during the lynch without engaging with it; manufacturing an attack against me.

Now Serg's behavior is also very weird, don't get me wrong. I have literally no idea why town OR scum serg would be unvoting and revoting mulch repeatedly throughout the day, all while proclaiming him to be town. And then there's the lol hammer comment. I view Serg as a wildcard who is working mostly on vibe rather than reason. His behavior on Mulch's wagon is consistent with that to me. That is to say, I don't find it to be any more AI than anything else he's done this game or in any game. That being said, I really don't want to wind up in a LYLO situation with him. I would support his wagon based on my inability to get a strong read on him and the fact that he'll be a liability in end, but I'm not thrilled at the thought of a Serg lynch today.

Wicked doesn't raise too many flags on the white knighting front and I disagree with Implosion's assessment that they lurked their way through the Mulch shenanigans. Wicked posted that he had a slight town lean on Mulch but would vote that way to prevent NL, and continued to push their scum reads. He engages and refutes almost all of the major points against mulch and while I disagree with him the interaction reads genuine to me. Seems like a pretty reasonable stance. I also disagree that TIAM was lurking through the end of the day. Their behavior seemed consistent with how they played most of the day to me, which tells me pretty much nothing.

I need to reread specifically with a focus on players I'm having trouble reading. Dany's sudden playstyle shift has been mentioned so I want to look into that more. Theres also (I think unmentioned at this point) the way that Chip's posting drastically changed halfway through the day, so I'll be looking into that. I don't have a strong read on Wavemode at all which is worrisome.

Town: Skitter and Implosion
Townish: Flub and Wicked
Null w/ town lean: TIAM
Null w/ scum lean: Serg
Null/No Read: Dany, Chip, Wavemode.

And this of course leaves my good friend, Lalendra. Lalendra is scum. We should all be voting Lalendra,

at least

to start the day. Like maybe we can vote someone else later but just look at that first post of D1. How could she completely forget me from her reads? I thought I was quickly rising to be one of her top scum candidates, and Mulch's town flip if anything should be reinvigorating her crusade against me but instead I suddenly don't exist. This to me is a post made by someone who's reads are not genuine. Town doesn't just forget to mention one of their top scum reads entirely on their first post of D2. Combine this with the potential white knighting, the role fishing on wossi who of course turned out to be a PR. It makes me wonder if perhaps there was a crumb that informed both the role fish and the NK.

Vote: Lalendra

[implosion]

Wicked doesn't raise too many flags on the white knighting front and I disagree with Implosion's assessment that they lurked their way through the Mulch shenanigans. Wicked posted that he had a slight town lean on Mulch but would vote that way to prevent NL, and continued to push their scum reads. He engages and refutes almost all of the major points against mulch and while I disagree with him the interaction reads genuine to me. Seems like a pretty reasonable stance. I also disagree that TIAM was lurking through the end of the day. Their behavior seemed consistent with how they played most of the day to me, which tells me pretty much nothing.

Yeah, consistent with the rest of the day is accurate and maybe lurking doesn't quite describe what I meant. Basically those slots I listed are those that I don't really remember exerting a lot of pressure one way or the other WRT the end of day shenanigans and so I sort of don't feel like I have as solid of a grasp on their recent play.

This is a good point:

How could she completely forget me from her reads? I thought I was quickly rising to be one of her top scum candidates, and Mulch's town flip if anything should be reinvigorating her crusade against me but instead I suddenly don't exist. This to me is a post made by someone who's reads are not genuine. Town doesn't just forget to mention one of their top scum reads entirely on their first post of D2.

and I am curious what Lalendra has to say about it. It's an interesting point because obviously forgetting to put someone in a reads list is most likely an unmotivated move, i.e. it's not something that was directly

motivated

by Lalendra's alignment, but rather should fairly accurately reflect the way she was viewing the game at that point irrespective of her alignment, and like you say it's inconsistent with her play at the end of yesterday that she wouldn't have you near top of mind.

[TwoInAMillion]

Skitter seems townish, she's not afraid to stand up for her opinions and back them up.

iDanny is scummish. He was super active day 1 when he thought he was being townread, and now that some are scumreading him he's lurking.

[implosion]

Wicked is an interesting case and I'm curious about peoples' reasons for calling him town. I sort of can't remember anything of his sticking out strongly as town but I remember his day 1 being mostly full of Generically Sensible Material. There's a big part of me that says that that's mostly meaningless because logicality isn't a tell. Nothing stuck out as strongly scummy either. His exit from the Wossi wagon is a little odd; timing-wise he jumped from Wossi to Lalendra at a time when each had two votes, changing the votes to 5-3-1 mulch-lalendra-Wossi, which could have a lot of utility as a scum vote hop (either distancing from Lalendra-scum or ensuring that there's dueling wagons on Mulch-town and Lalendra-town) and his reasoning feels a little meh. It just looks like him going "well other people are doing this and yeah I generally agree with them" which I guess isn't scummy per se but feels questionable just for it being such an easy post to make as scum.

TIAM I'm also curious to hear other peoples' reasons for reading him either way, particularly as town, because I keep hearing people give meta townreads on him and similar to the early Mulch meta reads I'm really unsure how to evaluate them. I remember slightly disliking his interactions with HEM who has now flipped town and I don't remember thinking anything of his was really townish.

Dany I'm willing to put back in the town pile for now.

Flubber I just really don't remember much from other than him leading off the Mulch wagon in fairly reasonable fashion. He needs to rebut my response to him.

[implosion]

iDanny is scummish. He was super active day 1 when he thought he was being townread, and now that some are scumreading him he's lurking.

His activity fell off mid-d1 pretty hard. He was very active early d1 but was never really under pressure d1 at all that I can remember until his hammer.

[TwoInAMillion]

Why are you willing to put Dany into the townpile? Seems strange that you are opinionated on everyone else you are posting about and put Dany into town seemingly on the basis that I am scum reading him.

[TwoInAMillion]

iDanny is scummish. He was super active day 1 when he thought he was being townread, and now that some are scumreading him he's lurking.

His activity fell off mid-d1 pretty hard. He was very active early d1 but was never really under pressure d1 at all that I can remember until his hammer.

His activity may have fell off but its not just quanity I look at its the firmness of your language in your posts.

[implosion]

I mentioned why earlier:

Dany's response makes me lean town, weakly. I don't think he'd specifically manufacture the argument that he thought Mulch was trying to scare him away as scum.

His activity may have fell off but its not just quanity I look at its the firmness of your language in your posts.

Any examples?

[TwoInAMillion]

After rereading your point is taken. He pretty much fell of the map after mulch replaced in.

The question is if that is opportunistic or not.

[Lalendra]

I didn't include Seph in my reads because I'm not sure how to sort him. I definitely had him as my top scumread D1, but everyone pretty universally felt that my argument against him was bad, so I went back and looked at it again and I am willing to say that maybe I misinterpreted and was wrong in scumreading him. Obviously he was no longer my top scumread at the start of D2, since I voted someone else.

[Sergtacos]

Serg, mind justifying your reads in a bit more depth?

Idanny hammered mulch and skitter pushed and desperately pushed for mulch when mulch was obvious town.

[Sergtacos]

Now Serg's behavior is also very weird, don't get me wrong. I have literally no idea why town OR scum serg would be unvoting and revoting mulch repeatedly throughout the day, all while proclaiming him to be town. And then there's the lol hammer comment. I view Serg as a wildcard who is working mostly on vibe rather than reason. His behavior on Mulch's wagon is consistent with that to me. That is to say, I don't find it to be any more AI than anything else he's done this game or in any game. That being said, I really don't want to wind up in a LYLO situation with him. I would support his wagon based on my inability to get a strong read on him and the fact that he'll be a liability in end, but I'm not thrilled at the thought of a Serg lynch today.

I voted him, then unvoted him. I accidentally voted him when I meant to type someone else's name. It is pretty obvious to me. You saying that I unvoted then vote him again throughout the day is scummy af because all that is a lie.

[skitter30]

Have you read my ISO? I'm pretty sure I have considered Mulch could be scum then changed it.

Tbh, it kinda feels like you threw in that one line about scumreading Mulch so that you can later point to it and say that you weren't townreading him all game (ie so that you can make this post)

Because at the time I just logged in, started reading, felt like he was scum, but as i read more he gave me a strong town ping because I could see it from a town perspective instead of a scum perspective

I still don't get why anyone townread him. (Yes, I'm fully aware that he flipped)

You don't think I think you're scum here? Why? Explain why you think that.

You're basically arguing that in the space of like a month and a half, with no scumgames in between, scum!me figured out how to a) avoid lurking b) form opinions c) talk to people d) especially the people who are scumreading me.

I don't really believe that you think scum!me can post like this after 1946.

538

Serg, mind justifying your reads in a bit more depth?

Idanny hammered mulch and skitter pushed and desperately pushed for mulch when mulch was obvious town.

I don't think Mulch was obvious town. I mostly stopped pushing him after I voted because I didn't see myself changing my vote and because I was pretty sure his lynch was inevitable. I *did* try to talk to him a few times after that about why we *shouldn't* lynch him. I'm not really sure how that could be characterized as 'desperate.'

Now Serg's behavior is also very weird, don't get me wrong. I have literally no idea why town OR scum serg would be unvoting and revoting mulch repeatedly throughout the day, all while proclaiming him to be town. And then there's the lol hammer comment. I view Serg as a wildcard who is working mostly on vibe rather than reason. His behavior on Mulch's wagon is consistent with that to me. That is to say, I don't find it to be any more AI than anything else he's done this game or in any game. That being said, I really don't want to wind up in a LYLO situation with him. I would support his wagon based on my inability to get a strong read on him and the fact that he'll be a liability in end, but I'm not thrilled at the thought of a Serg lynch today.

I voted him, then unvoted him. I accidentally voted him when I meant to type someone else's name. It is pretty obvious to me. You saying that I unvoted then vote him again throughout the day is scummy af because all that is a lie.

Ok, but you 'accidentally,' voted him two different times after locktowning him (463 and 592), and also say you want to lolhammer him in 528, which are rather odd things to do if you have someone as a lock townread. To me this looks like you're misrepping Seph by saying he's lying.

More later.

[iDanyboy]

Prodge

[Sephiroth]

There are more than 6 players in this game, right? Can we get some activity from other players please?

I still think its suspect that Lalendra completely forgot to evaluate me in her first post, especially with the reasoning given. Lalendra, you realize that you ended the day with your vote on me, despite posting after some people had already declared your case against me weak, right? Why were you content to not post again or change your vote or SOMETHING at the end of the day if you decided that your read was not as good as you thought? Why not make a point to acknowledge at any point that you are changing your stance on me?

Serg I'm sorry but thats not a lie. See Skitter's post above. Why is your first response to any criticism always that the person reading you is scummy?