Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[Luca Blight]

UCV is being lynched regardless now, so the best thing he can do if he's Town is just put out his reads in as much depth as possible before the inevitable happens.

If he's scum as I suspect then he can just keep on doing what he's doing.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Hmm well, alright. I suppose lynching him will have some benefit, even if it's just reads.

[LaserGuy]

You're happy with your vote where it is, even though it is completely meaningless as it stands. UCV is such a clear lynch candidate that the game is essentially divided into two sets of players - those voting UCV, and those who aren't. Everything else is just irrelevant detail at the moment.

For those not voting UCV, you need to a) explain why you don't want a UCV lynch, b) explain why you want to vote someone else and c) push that wagon as hard as I've pushed my lynch target.

Pretty much the only reason that I would have UCV on the table today is because if we don't lynch him, we're just going to have to go through this nonsense again tomorrow unless we decide to lynch you instead. UCV is fairly null to me... I have a stronger scumread on you than I do on him. I find your case on him quite unconvincing. Consequently, I don't have any particularly good reason to trust you or your read on UCV, so I'm not going to follow you.

Lucky's contributions are completely vapid, his vote on UCV is opportunistic and he has no progression to support doing so--quite the opposite, in fact, considering your disagreement with him earlier in the day.

Perhaps you could explain your scumread on me then. The only thing I've heard you say on the matter so far is that I might be Lucky's partner because you scumread him and I was arguing with him earlier, and you expect scum to argue with scum early on. Feeble reasoning at best.

Going to leave this for tomorrow. If UCV flips scum, you're like 98% conftown (and I'm like 75% chance of getting mislynched, but w/e), so I'm fine waiting for the flip at this point.

Why is my case on UCV unconvincing to you?

Spoiler: Long

Let's break this down:

122, 171, 191, 266 - A continuing theme of 'town should/shouldn't be doing this!'. This is something UCV does when he is scum.

171 doesn't actually say this. Neither does 191. 122 and 266 do I suppose. Assertion that this is something UCV does as scum (and not as town) is unsupported. I've seen plenty of people talk this way as either alignment so if you’re planning to argue that this is scum meta, you need to show that he does this as scum and not as Town.

129 - Completely fake scumhunting. Looks contrived with one townread, one null read, one scum read, and no real reasoning for any of it.

This post is 19 minutes after he replaced in. It's a wonder he has any reads at all, especially if he hadn't read the thread before posting. A couple of gut reads at this point does not seem unreasonable.

Given only three reads and three possible alignments, having one read of each type is actually the most probable scenario by pure chance.

141, 143,152, 155, 199 - Buddying me. As I explained before, he knows I know his meta well and that I tunnel on him once I catch on that he's scum, and he entered into this game with the plan of trying to appease me, no doubt about it.

141 does not look like buddying to me. I guess 143, 152, 199 could be construed as buddying. 155 does not look like buddying to me. I get more of a LAMIST vibe from UCV's posting, both here and in some of the ones up in 122/266, though you have not demonstrated that this alignment indicative.

146, 147, 174 - Fence-sitting. This is something I know he does as scum.

None of these appear to be fence-sitting to me at all. He appears to be saying something is NAI. In either case, you have not demonstrated that he does not do this as Town. More generally, the problem with a lot of this read is that you're saying "I know he does this as scum", but unless it is something he does only, or at least, much more often, as scum, it isn't a particularly useful tell.

159 Asking if Impede's play is lurkscum; why can't he judge this for himself?

This doesn't look particularly alignment-indicative to me.

189 - non-committal and unexplained reads list where he gives scum leans but says he has no solid scum reads, but is apparently 'still hunting'.

This is pretty much the only point in your case I agree with.

222 - Responds to my vote on him for buddying with a further attempt at buddying, saying it's good I don't always consider those who side with me as being of the same alignment. He's also using emotion here to try and get me to change my mind.

Okay, how is this alignment indicative? Would Town!UCV not also want to change your mind here?


Other stuff...

My gut is that replacement/ragequit is usually more Town-indicative than scum, but I don't really have a good enough sense of the site meta here to be able to say what the replacement meta is here beyond that people replace out here a lot more willingly regardless of alignment, than what I'm used to.

I feel there is enough to warrant a UCV lynch even if you entirely exclude meta. Just note his reaction to being voted - he isn't angry because I'm tunneling him, as I've been doing it for a while this game without him getting angry. He's annoyed that it's working and that I will successfully get him lynched again.

My impression is that townies get upset about being mislynched more often than scum get upset about being justifiably lynched. Excluding meta though, I’m really struggling to see a case here.

If we shouldn't lynch UCV then who should we lynch instead?

Lucky, Zaraki, you, Zulfy, or Impede would all be decent choices. Putting this all together, I could probably get a scumlean out of this. Generously, I'd say that it's about a coinflip that UCV will turn up scum.

Why is Lucky's argument with me earlier in the day relevant to him voting UCV?

I find it odd that he would be so willing to sheep your case without question when he so strongly disagreed with you on principle earlier in the game.

[Luca Blight]

So you think your case on Lucky is stronger than mine is on UCV?

I'm not going to respond to each point as it will just become a pissing content. Yes, the initial case itself wasn't water-tight of course as it was early D1, but since I posted that I have firmer evidence which you briefly mentioned but largely ignored. You make out his ragequit was more town-indicative even though he quickly withdrew his request to replace-out, and then later tried to use it as a defence for himself which very much makes the whole thing look calculated. The fact he also then brought up the BlackVoid thing, to which he used to justify his vote on me, and as further reasoning for his defence even though the scenarios were as different as can be, only strengthens my case against him.

And Lucky didn't sheep my case without question - he initally refused, and only joined once he saw UCV's fake ragequit.

[Impede]

I disagree that Luca is conftown if UCV flips scum. Scum have daytalk and wacky gambits are very possible. I'll explain more postflip.

[Luca Blight]

Not conftown perhaps, but certainly I will be calling the shots on D2 if UCV flips red.

[Luca Blight]

Btw, I do find it amusing when people talk of themselves getting 'mislynched' as opposed to plain old 'lynched'.

It's like they're trying to subliminally convey they are Town.

[Impede]

Meh. I think you get a free pass regardless, but I'll wait to say why so as not to influence behavior.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.11

UC Voyager(6)

~ Luca Blight, Sesq, Lucky2u, mozamis, Impede, Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez

Lucky2u(2)

~ CommKnight, LaserGuy

CommKnight(2)

~ cytheflyguy, Zulfy

mozamis(1)

~ CultOfAthena

Luca Blight(1)

~ UC Voyager


Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-12-02 21:30:00)

FLAVOR

This is an automated vote count generated by a tool written by MathBlade. It goes much smoother with exact votes but will try to detect bold votes and misspellings. If you have issues during this beta, please get MathBlade.

Performed 20 calls in 5 seconds. With an average of 0.26625 seconds per call.

Edited only to fix vote count number as I can't count/didn't update the autocounter

[LaserGuy]

I disagree that Luca is conftown if UCV flips scum. Scum have daytalk and wacky gambits are very possible. I'll explain more postflip.

I said 98% to include the possibility of that sort of thing, but I think it's probably about as close as we can realistically expect to get to conftown in this sort of setup.

[Sesq]

i really dont think theres any more to be said here for either side

[UC Voyager]

im done with this game tbh. hammer me if you wish. I will not hold any grudges or blame you. again, i was screwed by joining a game with Luca if i was town or scum.

[LaserGuy]

Was Comm prodded at some point? It's been over 48 hours for him I think. Zulfy still hasn't posted anything of significance.

[Luca Blight]

Just hammer him. We can hear from them on D2.

[LaserGuy]

Fine, let's keep this thing moving.

VOTE: UC Voyager

[UC Voyager]

town

[UC Voyager]

JUST FUCKING KIDDING> I WAS FUCKING SCUM.

but dude. Luca. i joined a game with you by accident. this will be the last game we are in. im tired of your steriotypes on me. you got to admit that your meta on me is flawed. your just lucky as shit.

[UC Voyager]

also, it was not a fake rage quit, i was really rage quiting, but realized i was just being dumb (not really)
another thing. i was not trying to buddy you. i was only town reading you because mos tof the other people were. i do not buddy as scum. definitely not someone who isn't conf town

[Luca Blight]

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

[UC Voyager]

Dude. I really wish I was town though because you still would have gone for me. In fact. I take it back. I will keep joining games with you until I am town and you lynch me. THEN i will never play with you again.

[Luca Blight]

Stop being so scumtastic and I won't tunnel you.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Would both of y'all stop? UC, you're being really immature at the moment. Yeah, I get you're upset, but somebody had to be lynched. Don't be miserable for the sake of making Luca miserable, it isn't worth it. Don't drink your own poison.

Luca, if you continually tunnel UC then how do you even know his town play? Being tunneled really isn't fun and it ruins his experience of not going past 1 day of playing with you.

Just stop it, both of you.

[CultOfAthena]

Well played. Luca is all but confirmed town to me now.

[Luca Blight]

I only tunnel him when he's scum.

I'm not going to apologise for lynhing scum, and if I have a strong scumread I'm not going to suppress it to spare someone's feelings.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

And I'm not telling you to. I'm suggesting avoiding playing together for a while so you (universal) can cool down.