Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[Creature]

Hey wilky, would you try a different wagon?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Vote Count 1.6

CommKnight -
Creature - (1) Chip Butty
northsidegal -
Aster - (1) Creature
texcat - (1) Pisskop
Viomi -
mutantdevle - (3) northsidegal, texcat, Lalendra,
pisskop - (6) MisaTange, Aster, Viomi, CityElectric, Commknight, wilky
Chip Butty - (1) Assemblerotws
Lalendra -
wilky -
CityElectric -
MisaTange -
Assemblerotws -
No Lynch -
Not Voting: mutantdevle,
With 14 Alive. Takes 8 To Lynch. 7 To No Lynch.
Deadline Timer (expired on 2017-12-10 12:00:00)

[wilky]

Hey wilky, would you try a different wagon?

That would depend who the wagon was on.

[CityElectric]

Sorry for the lack of posting guys, I've been a bit sick and doing a lot of sleeping the past few days.

Even the possible somewhat proactive 18, never got properly followed up upon, i.e. analyzing the reactions it got.

Helped me get a townread on mutant and possibly plenty others.

Sure, but how? I'm getting an overall lack of thought and argumentation behind your reads because you seem unwilling to share that. Take 262 for example, you ask if anyone's up for wagoning CommKnight while giving zero reason why you think we should. I could fill in some reasons, but that's not what we're doing here. Point is, all of your thoughts and reasoning seem to be based on nothing as far as I can tell, which is what I'm getting scummy vibes from.

loli's vote was the most opportunitistic.

you mistake my presence for reading

This seems to be directed at me. Give me a good reason for that intent to hammer other than 'I was asked', and I might reconsider my vote.

[Creature]

I think Comm's general inactivity is more likely to come from scum.

[wilky]

I think Comm's general inactivity is more likely to come from scum.

What makes his inactivity more scummy than you just throwing accusations without reason and dripfeeding information?
What makes his inactivity worse than pisskop just not playing at all?

[Aster]

It seems that some people have cast some doubts on me polling the support for a policy lynch. I'd like to clarify that with "contains a yes or no" does not mean that you shouldn't give your reason for your choice, but means that you had to make up your mind on what you would do if a policy lynch were about to happen.

Why? For mostly two reasons: first, with pisskop at L-2 by now (L-3 back then), there is a reasonable chance that pisskop will get policy lynched, and if you're not happy with that,

now

is the time to protest. The second reason is that if I do not ask for something with a yes/no, then most players will beat around the bush with something like "I'm not opposed to lynching pisskop but I'd have to wait and see a bit more before I can actually support lynching him", which frankly hardly gives us any information.

Have you looked at the activity the past few days? Barely any discussion is happenin. Why isn't discussion happening? Because (1) our targets are an idiot and a troll, which makes it hard to discuss, and (2) it looks like we already have solid lynch targets and there is no need to seek out new ones.

Unless something new happens, this day will end with either mutant or pisskop getting lynched. And indeed, it is unlikely that we will come across better targets than either of them (especially since no scumhunting is being done at this point.) At most, we're only bandwagonning with no intention of ever letting them hammer.

The town seems satisfied with its scumhunting job being done and spends its time waiting untill

somebody else

moves stuff forward. Things that

are currently not happening

are:

• Scumhunting;
  
• Lynching.

We seem to be in that limbo state where we're done with scumhunting but not yet ready to lynch. I think we should either:

1. Get back to scumhunting;
   
2. Move on to lynching.

If discussion is to be had, we should go back to discussing, but in the history of today's posts. If not, we should move on to lynching, so we can have the remaining time in the day carry over to tomorrow, along with new information to start new discussions. I could understand wanting to delay the hammer to the end of the day in normal setups where daytime doesn't carry over, but in this game, it does. I don't think we should just squander our remaining day time just because we can.

So I was trying to make town decide for themselves whether they would be fine with the day ending at this point. I picked pisskop because he was the new hot topic (unlike mutant who had already been L-1'd and intented), but thinking back, maybe I should've asked a more general statement ("Would you be fine with a lynch happening at this point in the day?")

[Aster]

Also, I would compile a list with the answers to my last question. Here it is.

Players who would be fine with lynching pisskop:

• Aster;
  
• Chip Butty;
  
• CommKnight;
  
• Creature;
  
• northside;
  
• texcat;
  
• Wilky.

Players who would not be fine with pisskop getting policy lynched:

• mutantdevle.

Players who posted but didn't answer my question:

• CityElectric.

Players who haven't posted in the meanwhile:

• MisaTange;
  
• Lalendra;
  
• Viomi;
  
• Assemblerotws.

---

You realise you are asking him if he would be okay with his own policy lynch, right?

Yes. Asking him what he thought about lynching himself was supposed to be an obvious joke.

[Aster]

Since it seems like we've got solid targets and the further discussion happening at this rate won't give us much more information, I think we should move on to with the lynch so we have more time to talk during the later days. In particular, I think having mutant's alignment confirmed could give us some quite valuable information.

Although I'm fine with lynching either mutant or pisskop, I've decided I'd rather lynch mutant after all. Aside from having way more evidence against him, a newly to be considered reason is that there is a ton of information to be gained by confirming mutant's alignment. If he flips scum, we're onto his potential scumbuddy Creature. Should he flip town, then at least most of us have had a lot of discussion with him which could give new leads. If pisskop gets lynched, his alignment will tell us hardly anything.

UNVOTE: pisskop
VOTE: mutantdevle

[Assemblerotws]

I would be fine with lynching either Pisskop or mutant.

[mutantdevle]

I think most people have completely forgotten the time role over mechanic of this game.

I’ve decided if either myself or pisskop reaches L-1 then I will hammer as to not unnecessarily waste time.

[wilky]

Since it seems like we've got solid targets and the further discussion happening at this rate won't give us much more information, I think we should move on to with the lynch so we have more time to talk during the later days. In particular, I think having mutant's alignment confirmed could give us some quite valuable information.

Although I'm fine with lynching either mutant or pisskop, I've decided I'd rather lynch mutant after all. Aside from having way more evidence against him, a newly to be considered reason is that there is a ton of information to be gained by confirming mutant's alignment. If he flips scum, we're onto his potential scumbuddy Creature. Should he flip town, then at least most of us have had a lot of discussion with him which could give new leads. If pisskop gets lynched, his alignment will tell us hardly anything.

UNVOTE: pisskop
VOTE: mutantdevle

Why do you see Creature as a potential partner of Mutant? I'm more inclined to think the opposite as it looks like Creature went for some real buddying up with Mutant and if my theory is correct Mutant will flip town and Creature knows that and will hope to take town cred from the lynch.

[Lalendra]

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

[Chip Butty]

I think most people have completely forgotten the time role over mechanic of this game.

I’ve decided if either myself or pisskop reaches L-1 then I will hammer as to not unnecessarily waste time.

This doesn't make sense at all if you are town. If you are town then you know 100% you are town, and commonsense says a warm town body is more valuable than the time that would be saved.

[Aster]

Why do you see Creature as a potential partner of Mutant? I'm more inclined to think the opposite as it looks like Creature went for some real buddying up with Mutant and if my theory is correct Mutant will flip town and Creature knows that and will hope to take town cred from the lynch.

I explained why I think of Creature as a potential scumpartner in post 223. To summarise, Creature is buddying with mutant a lot. However, unlike normal townie-like buddying, Creature seems to be far more certain that mutant is townie than that the evidence he presents suggests to be reasonable. It somehow gives the suggestion that he has another motive for defending mutant.

And, as I write that paragraph, I realise that such behaviour fits perfectly in the picture of mutant being town and Creature fishing for towncred as well. In fact, it even fits a bit better in that picture since I had been wondering about why Creature, despite displaying such great amounts of buddying, put so little actual effort in preventing mutant from actually getting lynched. The case of mutant being town, Creature being mafia knowing mutant is town, and Creature fishing for towncred would explain everything.

However, that situation would require mutant to be town, which I nevertheless think is unlikely. It also puts Creature in a no-win situation: if mutant is scum, Creature is buddying; if mutant is town, Creature is fishing for towncred. Maybe Creature's way of defending mutant is just inherently scummy?

At any rate, there is more information than just about Creature to be had in lynching mutant.

---

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

I changed my mind?

I think I already explained most of this in posts 331 and 333, but I'll tell you a longer story if you want.

I never had big evidence against pisskop, I had a "this guy is disrupting town and will never give us alignment information, so I want him lynched" against pisskop. Mutant has appeared more scummy to me through the process, so I had to choose whether I'd rather lynch the most scummy guy or policy lynch the troll.

Moreover, I wasn't trying to make town lynch pisskop as much as I wanted town to make up their minds about the state of affairs. I think that stating my own opinion after asking the question did make the question look biased, but I couldn't just leave it yout.

I'll now explain what I mean with "wanted town to make up their minds about the state of affairs".

Let's take a look at what happened in this thread after a bandwagon against pisskop started and before I inquired about the support for actually lynching him. The activity in this thread was really low (and still is), and the little discussion that was happening could be best summarised as beating a dead horse:

• Everyone: pisskop, we're totally gonna lynch you if you keep this up!
  
• pisskop: lolz
  
• Everyone: don't make us warn you again!
  
• pisskop: lolz

At that point, I was agitated both with pisskop's behaviour as well as with how the little activity that was left was all focused on the above futile endeavours.

I noted that the wagon against mutant had traction until we got to the point of lynching him, at which point players realised "Wait, my vote is about to

actually

lynch somebody? Can we do that this early? Shouldn't we think more about this? Maybe I should unvote..." And then the bandwagon died down.

I got the impression that the same thing was going to happen with pisskop: while many are happy to vote to show their disapproval, few are actually happy to lynch somebody this early in the day. In other words, any players were willing to

vote

him, but most players were not actually willing to

lynch

him. Most of the votes looked like "scaring votes" from those who only wanted to express their disapproval, and the sentiment to lynch him was lacking.

At this rate, neither discussion nor lynches are happening, and we'd end up using all time we've left in the day before the town actually does something again. To end this mockery, I wanted town to make up their mind already: are you actually willing to lynch pisskop, or are you just barking again? Are you actually fine with ending the day already? Are you fine with letting mutant go to deal with this troll issue?

If there was actual support for lynching pisskop, then we could lynch him. If there wasn't, then we as town should move on from this pisskop business because "scaring votes" clearly aren't working.

Reading the answers to my question, the following could be derived: while there is support for policy lynching pisskop, several of the supporters are withholding votes because they'd rather lynch mutant.

So that made me think about the following: since this day will probably end with either pisskop or mutant getting lynched,

I

need to make up my mind as well. Which of them would I prefer to lynch?

After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that between pisskop and mutant, I'd rather have mutant lynched. The deciding factor was that I realised that the main reason I'd been pushing for a lynch was to get the town to move on from this stagnation and talk again, and lynching pisskop wouldn't accomplish that goal nearly as much as lynching mutant would: if pisskop got lynched, we'd learn barely anything; if mutant got lynched, we'd have a treasure trove of discussion to base new reads on.

And that's the story about why I'm back to my mutant vote. If one of those two is going to get lynched, I'd prefer it to be mutant.

---

This doesn't make sense at all if you are town. If you are town then you know 100% you are town, and commonsense says a warm town body is more valuable than the time that would be saved.

Neither does it make sense if he's mafia.

[Creature]

I like expect pisskop behavior to be like this and I'm probably leaning him to be more town than scum.

[Creature]

mutant is likely scum and creature is his scumbuddy harddefending him, but creature could be buddying him for town cred

[Creature]

Sorry, not gonna let two mislynches be lined like this.

[Creature]

than that the evidence he presents suggests to be reasonable.

I think the way he's active, producing content and being genuinely motivated to solve the game is enough for me to hard-defend him like this.

Has anyone thought that town could also hard-defend their townreads?

[Creature]

Players who would be fine with lynching pisskop:

Not fine, not rn.

[Creature]

I'm gonna show you one scum who's just in the background watching town eat itself:

VOTE: CommKnight

[texcat]

For those of you who thought it was too early in the Day to lynch Mutant, can you tell us what you've learned by waiting?

[MisaTange]

Regarding Aster's 305, I'm cautiously okay with PLing pisskop, if only for the refusal of the interaction for town.

Both our lynch targets are PL imo, more antitown than any certain scumreads. Mutant I think we'll get more information on regarding his flip, so:

VOTE: mutantdevle

[CommKnight]

Reading Aster's wall. All I got from it? Jack shit.

I have openly said I'll lynch Mutant OR Pisskop. I'll drop the hammer on Mutant if he reaches L1.

[northsidegal]

anyone else noticing how mutant only seems to appear or talk when the wagon is on him, but when the focus is shifted away he mysteriously disappears? like, where are the verbose walls for scumhunting rather than just trying to convince everyone that you weren't rolefishing?

i'm still on for mutant.