Surreptitious II: Secrets and Misdirection

[Toto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu4Hnbor9rI

[Majiffy]

Goddamnit that's a lot of pages.

[Transcend]

Not really lol

[RachMarie]

Group A	Group B	Group C
EddieFenix Smocaine Bulbazak Toto Elliberetta InactionDan Creature	Majiffy SnarkySnowman Thor665 momo Lil Uzi Vert	vonflare Desperado RachMarie checkersman7 Transcend Ginngie Ramcius

Vote Count 2.4 B

vonflare (0): [L-7]

Desperado (2): Toto, Creature [L-5]

RachMarie (0): [L-7]

checkersman7 (0): [L-7]

Transcend (0): [L-7]

Ginngie (4): Elliberetta, InactionDan, Smocaine, SnarkSnowman [L-3]

Ramcius (5): Bulbazak, Thor665, Majiffy, EddieFenix, momo [L-2]

Not voting (3): Lil Uzi Vert

It takes 7 to lynch.

DPII ends in (expired on 2017-12-10 00:50:00)

Mod Notes

vonflare is V/LA until Dec 5th

checkersman7 is V/LA until Dec 5th

Ginngie is V/LA until Dec 3rd.

Bulbazak is V/LA until Dec 5th.

BTD6_Maker is V/LA until Dec 7th.

Ramcius replaces Ramcius.

Feel free to PM me about slots that are posting too much or too little

Jiffy this is the part that counts for the nonce. We have 3 wagons (Creature just voted for Des recently).

Des

Gin

Ram

[Transcend]

Uzi y u flippin out over nl when we have 6 days left

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Cause I know towns on mafia scum

[Majiffy]

@Majiffy: You said that wagon analysis was crap in reference to my mention of comparing the Mick wagon with the second B wagon, yet you later wanted me to compare your wagon with the Mick wagon to find scum. Why is one wagon analysis garbage while the other isn't?

It isn't. I just wanted you looking at Checkers.

is that all you got?

first, yes alignment don't change, but people sometimes are bad, or how else MLs happens? And that goes both ways - for my pred being bad and looking scummy (which reasonable, Ali got MLed recently in fortnight, a game, where town had only 1 lynch, so stakes were really high) or you are bad, maybe biased like Trans, or, you know, you just rolled scum.

Well, you had time to shitpost, so i pointed to yours "quality over quantity"

Your defense is "townies can be scummy too" and a tu quoque?

Ramicus would have been my first choice, but thor + jiffy,

Do we need to have a refresher course on the Flowchart?

There is an alarming amount of resistance to desperado ...

Is there? Because it seems like most of the vocal resistance is against the Ram lynch.

We have 3 wagons (Creature just voted for Des recently).

I'm aware. I'm on one of them. Join us.

VOTE: Ramcius

Won't be home tonight and probably most of tomorrow. I'll catch up when I can

Thor I missed something you asked me earlier if you could find it for me that'd be great ty

I challenged your Elli read and asked about your Snowman read - we're opposite on both.

I'm lazy and don't want to ISO dive for cases so I'll do this tomorrow.

[Majiffy]

Toto + Creature you're voting a vanity wagon vote between Gin & Ram

[Ginngie]

[quote="In post 3307, Majiffy"][/quote]

Majiffy you're creating a false dichotomy when a lynch pool is already limited as is

[RachMarie]

umm Jiffy I can't vote I am in group C lol

[Toto]

Toto + Creature you're voting a vanity wagon vote between Gin & Ram

You are voting town. Vote someone else.

[Toto]

thoughts on 3018

Ginngie

[Elliberetta]

Hi MOD, Can we have a ~holiday deadline extention because of the hilarious amount of V/LA's and replacements today tyty

[Ramcius]

is that all you got?

first, yes alignment don't change, but people sometimes are bad, or how else MLs happens? And that goes both ways - for my pred being bad and looking scummy (which reasonable, Ali got MLed recently in fortnight, a game, where town had only 1 lynch, so stakes were really high) or you are bad, maybe biased like Trans, or, you know, you just rolled scum.

Well, you had time to shitpost, so i pointed to yours "quality over quantity"

Your defense is "townies can be scummy too" and a tu quoque?

no, my defense is that you either stubborn bad town or scum, you try push "alignment won't change" idea, when you only guessing alignment, which is ridiculous - your read is subjective, you can't push it as objective argument

[Desperado]

Why are you ignoring me Des?

well, i'd gone to bed

but the answer to your question is also readily available

[Desperado]

loldesp you link me

i looked, couldn't find it

[Desperado]

I know this is playstyle related but I havent seen anything I can point to and say yeah this looks like town trying to figure things out. Bulbread being the onlu exception but it reads more like a show to make it appear as such (see spidy senses above)

you're the one who trashed it before you even attempted to investigate for yourself and then asked me to explain it rather than just let it speak for itself

and now it's somehow my idea designed to put on a show?

get real dude

[Toto]

It just didnt look natural because you for some reason refuse to express whats on your mind.

Can you explain your scumreads pretty pls why are you making this so hard?

I dont care if they are short reasons just full honest explanations of why ppl in your grp may be scum. Talk to me about ramcus for example since we seem to disagree there.

[SnarkySnowman]

Jiffy can die

[Ginngie]

There is no better way to start your Term paper than saying "Don't fool yourself, your children don't actually love you."

[Bulbazak]

I also expect that we're going to have to lynch you at some point soon, so it's not worth engaging you on an obviously flawed approach.

This pretty horrible.

It probably is. I was in a bit of a mood on Friday.

3040 and 3043

Go on...

You're conflating a reason to discredit my read with discrediting my slot, and making a point of it while claiming to not care. There's also inherent scum incentive to leaving someone you think is lynchable for lylo.

I have a bit of an insight into you for reasons I can't get into yet. You entering in and immediately jumping on the Ginngie wagon for the crap reason of "scum mad because caught for the wrong reasons" is either dumb or scum, and I can honestly see it going either way. Your slot is essentially in the PoE list for pretty much everybody, so that means that your lynch is one that will probably have to happen, either because you're scum or just to clear the pool out in order to nail whichever scum is left.

Like I kind of get why you are angry at me for me shitting on your VCA but it was bad. Ramcius is town, you should vote someone else.

I can agree with you that the latter VCA was bad, and I even mentioned as much. I don't put much stock in it. Yet, that was the point you decided to attack, even though in an earlier post I said that I didn't think it meant anything. You looked for a weakness and tried to dismantle my entire Ramicus push, even though the weakness you attacked had nothing to do with why I was voting Ramicus. I still hold that my comparison of the Mick wagon to the d2 B voters has merit, although I don't think it's telling the whole story. I think it's good enough to find 1-2 scum. And I still think your approach here is scummy as crap. If you are actually town who thinks Ram is also town, then explain why. Otherwise, bugger off.

Toto's Real Time VCA

vonflare (0): [L-7]

Desperado

(2):

Toto, Creature

[L-5]

RachMarie (0): [L-7]

checkersman7 (0): [L-7]

Transcend (0): [L-7]

Ginngie (4): Elliberetta, InactionDan, Smocaine [L-4]

Ramcius

(3):

Bulbazak, Thor665, Majiffy, EddiePhenix

[L-3]

Not voting (12):, SnarkySnowman, momo, Lil Uzi Vert

Rule of thumb: If you ever get to the point where you think everyone on a wagon is scum, then it's time to reevaluate your reads. Otherwise, this is just cheap fear-mongering.

the desperado wagon is SO promising and has so much resistance

In a game where only 3 scum know each other, and only 2 of those can vote at a time, this statement doesn't mean as much as it usually does.

Checkers "listen to me and sheep, I was totally right on my CMM lurkhammer that flipped green, this can't POSSIBLY go wrong"

Okay, I'm just putting a stop to this. Checkers likes to hammer. Period. He was on the Mick wagon earlier, and Gin pointed out he wouldn't be the hammer vote, which is why Checkers got off. He exhibited the same behavior in 17 Kilos, and he was town there. I just think this is a null tell, and you need to stop pushing it as a scum tell. If Checkers is scum, it's not because of this.

@Bulb

, use the vote to the full extent if the mod allows for it.

I doubt the mod will let me, and anyways, I want to keep you vote parked on Ramicus.

I think I need to hop on the ginngie wagon, mainly because I tr everyone on it + can kinda see the case. Ramicus would have been my first choice, but thor + jiffy, plus uncertain feelings on bulba.... not sure. Desp is not my pref choice and I'd only vote there to sheep obvtown creature.

VOTE: ginngie

Ew. Snarky's officially gone from null to scum.

@Checkers: You somehow conveniently skipped Alisae responding to what I was saying, yet later saying that she wasn't reading a thing I was saying, but conveniently had a town read on me.

UNVOTE: Ramicus

I do want to think about this a bit while I catch up. I still think Ramicus is a good lynch, but Momo joining gives me pause. I also want to talk to Elli and try to get her off Ginngie, even if it's on to Desp. If an agreement can be made, then I'm willing to talk.

I'll pick back up...
On to page 128.
But seriously, I'm tired and busy and unlikely to even get back to this game for the rest of today. I needed a break over the weekend, and I'm not sure I'm satisfied with where things lie right now. I'm making this a priority tomorrow, so hopefully Elli or some other reasonable person is on to talk to. If Ginngie is still unsure about C, we can always try working through things tomorrow. I also want to get to Desp's big pile of bull crap (Yes, I saw that. I skim the most recent page on my phone every once in awhile. I just don't like posting from it, and I don't log in, because I don't want to lose my place.) In the meantime, this might be enough to do the trick.

Okay, I'm gone for the day. Peace people!

[Creature]

Toto + Creature you're voting a vanity wagon vote between Gin & Ram

It's not a vanity wagon because there are two voters and we think both Ginngie and Ramcius are mislynches.

[Toto]

@bulb i have explained a fuckload times why I think ram is town

@creature I may get on board gin if things dont develop from here but I think we still have time.

My lynch candidates are still gin von and desp.

[Majiffy]

no, my defense is that you either stubborn bad town or scum, you try push "alignment won't change" idea, when you only guessing alignment, which is ridiculous - your read is subjective, you can't push it as objective argument

What, exactly, constitutes "objective" in mafia arguments? I'm genuinely interested.

Jiffy can die

Nah mate

I do want to think about this a bit while I catch up. I still think Ramicus is a good lynch, but Momo joining gives me pause

Don't do this to me Zak we have a good thing going on

Toto + Creature you're voting a vanity wagon vote between Gin & Ram

It's not a vanity wagon because there are two voters and we think both Ginngie and Ramcius are mislynches.

Oh how convenient for you

[RachMarie]

Snarky have you read the OP at all?

We are deciding from group C not B