Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

I'd say that I'm fairly engaged. At the very least, I'm reading every post and responding to what I feel needs it.
You seem to be pretty quick on prodding players and trying to get movement happening, which is cool. What's your beef with porkens? You say 'iffy feelings', but I'd like you to go into more detail, if you can.

-V

[Porkens]

Jabarkas Mayonnaise,

Past: 10 of diamonds. You have had the backing of familial security. You have been taken care of by your family, or perhaps by an organization...

Present: 7 of spades. You are presently embroiled in deception. Perhaps you are the deceiver, or not. It may simply be a mystery that you are trying to solve.

Future: king of clubs. Another sign of family business, of which the leader has some conn3ction with you. Perhaps the fate of your group will rest on your shoulders, needing to be carried.

Warning: ace of spades, reversed. Clinging to old ideas or falling for a novel strategy is risky. Make sure new 9deas are sound before taking them up.

Opportunity: 3 of diamonds, reversed. Teamwork, but not necessarily collaborative. Think sticks and carrots. You may have to take charge to win success.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

Y'think that applies to life or just this game?

-V

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

(also, on the d-low, thanks, I kinda love getting readings)

-V

[nancy]

I'm hesitant to go into liftoff and make any real judgment calls on anyone until we've got everyone present, accounted for, and playing. I feel as though the rather vocal amount of players we've got here right now are more likely town than not and that clever scum would just lurk out for awhile and allow bad blood to brew between the talkers, then swipe in when wagons begin, if that makes sense.

-V

Varsoon talk to me about how this is your stance here? Because I'm looking at this and seeing something that's very generic and easy and doesn't accomplish or actually state anything on the players here and isn't particularly relevant to this game either since unless you're seeing something I'm not there's none of the bad blood brewing that you're talking about. Unless you're holding townreads on all the active posters that you're not talking about I'm wondering why you're looking at the game and thinking that scum are probably not posting and you're fine with that and are going to do nothing until they show themselves? Also don't understand how mafia being clever plays into this or why you're assuming they are unless you have a clear idea of who you think mafia is without them even posting, acidphoenix being the only person I think could realistically fit that, and if you do have a clear idea then it doesn't make sense to make the post in the first place.

Find the mindset you've stated to be pretty unrealistic and struggle to believe that even if the premise of bad blood were true that you'd forego interacting with any of it and simply steer clear out of fear of mafia swooping in and taking advantage of the situation unawares; if you think that there's bad blood happening between people that are town here where do you think that's happening and why have you not done anything about it or commented on any of it if mafia manipulating that is a real threat? Only answer I'm seeing is that you don't want to in order to observe watchfully which if you're already aware of that as a threat I'm not sure why you're so hesitant to engage. Basically think that the stance you've taken in 186 is something that looks nice on the surface but is just a complete mess once you dig down into it and look at it on a level of "Varsoon actually having these thoughts"; if you could walk me through how this is working in your head that would be super helpful.

PS I don't think certain players not posting should prevent you from looking at the content of the players who have posted and working on your reads on that material; if you disagree with me there, I think you should be able to talk about how that content is affected by you not yet holding a read on an inactive player and why that means that you prefer to abstain?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hi Keychain!

Don’t worry about me not answering. You should only be worried if I had or start to do so

Hi LUV! I wasn't only referring to the RQS thing, I would in fact have been pretty surprised if you'd answered them. It bothers me that you're self identifying as more difficult to deal with as town though. Like I said, I think the questions are more useful for town working together than finding scum, which is still important.

I mean you're not... doing... anything. Well, more than that, you're

actively

doing nothing in most of your posts. Getting very much an impression that you're sitting back and waiting for people to dance for your amusement, which is

But I disagree with your Porkens townread, he's giving me iffy feelings so far and it's not because I'm jealous of the readings everyone else is getting He was going to be my vote before I changed my mind and went for the Mayo instead.

Yeti: I like your posts so far.

Um, thanks?

I notice that Porkens has failed to comply with my request to answer my question(why Porkens did town read Jarbakas) again. I recommend everyone to vote Porkens right now. I cannot see any good town reason for Porkens to hide their reasons behind the naked townread. I do however see a scum motivation behind them first ignoring my question, then turning towards me in an attempt to discredit me and even further trying to discredit me when I made a vote and told them to answer: The town read was fake!

Oh, I know it's frustrating when people refuse to answer you, but this is too cut-and-dried. I agree with Porkens 193.

I'm hesitant to go into liftoff and make any real judgment calls on anyone until we've got everyone present, accounted for, and playing. I feel as though the rather vocal amount of players we've got here right now are more likely town than not and that clever scum would just lurk out for awhile and allow bad blood to brew between the talkers, then swipe in when wagons begin, if that makes sense.

-V

It makes sense - easier for scum to let them destroy itself instead of put themselves at risk. But would you class yourself as present, accounted for, and playing, if you're waiting for everyone to be before you really get stuck in?
I think now we're just waiting on one acidphoenix.


-Key

Wouldn’t say difficult, just not conventional. And I can start doing stuff, it’s just easier for me not to depending on the player list

Just a slight town read on Porkens. I don’t think scum draw so much attention to themselves early on like he did. He’s also approaching the game with the readings in a way that I don’t think most players in this player list would allow him to if they were his partner.

[nancy]

He’s also approaching the game with the readings in a way that I don’t think most players in this player list would allow him to if they were his partner.

Don't think you know much about Porkens if you think that.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

Thanks for the novella.

I'm not saying there's currently issues of town versus town, but that there are 206 posts and 172 of those are currently made by 5 of the 9 players present. Half of those are made by two of the players present.
This isn't me calling the less vocal half of the playerbase scum, but instead saying that focusing on the content of those outspoken players will only continue to focus content creation by and around those players, which isn't helpful for looking at the game as a whole.
In the post you quoted, I do say that I'm leaning the more vocal folks as town and less vocal folks as not town, because that's what makes sense to me.

If possible, I'd like to generate pressure on lower content players.

-V

[nancy]

Fair enough though I don't think that covers the thoughts of "clever scum would just lurk" (me disagreeing with that aside) with no more than a vague idea of who that might be or why quieting the louder voices is going to facilitate the less active players in producing content. Can't recall any games where that's happened, can you? If your gamestate read involves clever scum lurking out the early game who do think fits that profile in this game? Because otherwise I don't understand where that thought's coming from. If you think it's advantageous for scum to lurk why wouldn't they continue to lurk if town wasn't being active? Think answering those extra question would definitely help me understand that stance from you if you've the indulgence in you.

My experience is that games are always going to have certain more vocal players and I'm not quite grasping why it's as easy as how you've portrayed it so, question: if there are mafia in the more vocal posters at what point do you start looking for that?

There's also a subpoint here that isn't alignment indicative but I think it's interesting which is that you seem to be assuming that town aren't going to be able to reliably recognize each other. Probably a fair assumption by MS standards.

My own view goes back to the little postscript, that it benefits town to have people talking as much as possible as long they're not swallowing the game because the more I'm able to have mafia post the more I'm able to find reasons why they're mafia and the more I'm able to have town post the more I'm able to find reasons why they're town and in the latter case once I've got a strong townread on someone I've got another voice I can trust about the game which can be pretty invaluable; as a platitude that's the more people I have the opportunity to reach that place with the earlier, the better off I think I'm going to be. Probably relevant that I never really expect to live more than a dayphase as town.

Very apparently happy to write you a novella any time at all. Before you know you'll be a bibliophile.

[nancy]

Actually I'd like to tack on another little thing here for you to come back with answer to in the next ~24 hours at your leisure, don't have to give an answer at the same time as you respond to the above, which is that if you had to kill exactly one player in the 4 low-content posters you mentioned and if they're town you die, who and why?

[nancy]

Pretty much anyone can feel free to answer that as well but preferably not before Varsoon has a chance.

[Porkens]

V, you'd have to answer that question for yourself, I just read what the cards say! I will say I was focusing on your posts while i mixed the cards. and you are welcome

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

Dunkerdoodles would be my kill--the quick townreads on Porkens and Drealmerz look like posturing more than informed-from-thread decision making.

I'm saying that clever scum would lurk because that's what clever scum do on this site nowadays. In a situation where vocal players are only really engaging with vocal players, the people who skirt around that, regardless of alignment, tend to survive longer.
I don't think we need to quiet louder voices. I'm obviously still posting and engaging with you. I'm suggesting we generate more content from everyone in the game, if possible, because it makes it easier to actually read everyone in the game.
Well-played lurk-scum step out of lurking in order to wagon town, though I have seen games with extremely low town activity and scum playing purposefully to keep that activity low so that every lynch was a deadline lynch. It's not a fun way to play the game, imo.

Games will always have more vocal players, but this game is 9 pages in with less than a third of the players contributing half the pages. When I say that I'd like to hear more voices and I'd like to resign really putting down hard reads until I do, it's because I feel like I don't have a full picture of the game and if I engage with what I do have, then my focus is limited and that there's a real possibility it may be limited in a way that scum are influencing.

P-EDIT:
I don't think I can win this game all on my own, but also, I probably should take the reading to apply to life, too. So both!

-V

[Porkens]

Acid is the only real lurker here. Everyone else has given at least something to read. I'd rather replace him than kill him, but he's a chronic flake.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-4

Not Known 15

(1): Dunkerdoodles

Jabarkas Mayonnaise

(1): Yetichain

Not Voting

(7): nancy, acidphoenix, drealmerz7, Not Known 15, Porkens, Lil Uzi Vert, Jabarkas Mayonnaise

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: December 18, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-12-17 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Porkens]

TPFKAP thinks she knows two scrum already, but she replaced out so I'm not letting her say it.

[Porkens]

it's varsoon and that noavi!

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

[nancy]

Haha, A+

[Porkens]

It just says "Image" ??

[nancy]

Re 212, thanks; still not really understanding why you'd take such a generalized stance without looking at the players in the game here but not sure that's something we're going to resolve.

Question remains of, if there are mafia in the more vocal posters at what point do you start looking for that? Like you're holding gamestate reads on most of the active posters as them being more likely to be town, presumably as the game continues they're going to continue to be the more vocal posters even once the others start picking up content more so how much content and interaction do you need with the low-content posters to feel like you have a full enough picture of the game?

You may not be self-aware enough to answer that one which is fine if that's the case, but I do think there's a fair bit of a question mark there in that you're waiting for something vaguely defined, reading the game according to something vaguely defined, not really sure what to do and want more content but don't seem to have a clear way of going about getting it.


Think we're probably holding pretty different philosophies about mafia here since having a full picture of the game isn't really something that's going to prevent me from forming opinions and I'm very much a rereader and a rerereader so updating and revising as I get more info is going to happen a lot. Am kind of under the assumption that my focus is always going to be limited and much of my effort during the game is dedicated to doing what I can with what I have and trying to get the fullest picture I can in the spot that I'm in; one of the best ways for me to do that is to ask a bunch of questions and put my thoughts out there for others to dig into and interact with people as much as possible. Not really the sit-back-and-watch type.


Follow-up question: if you had to kill exactly one player in the five of the more vocal posters and if they're town you die, who and why, and if you had to pick exactly one player in the same group to prevent from dying for the rest of the game and if they're mafia you die, who and why? And for the sake of the question you can't pick me.

Anyone else can answer that one too if they feel like it.

[nancy]

It just says "Image" ??

It loads for me! If it's not loading for you just right-click the "Image" and click View Image and it'll take you to what you want to see.

[Porkens]

nancy, do you like board games?

[nancy]

Porkens have you seen Twin Peaks? You're reminding me of the log lady

pedit yeah I love them! Yay for crossposting

[nancy]

Why do you ask though?