Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Acidphoenix
I want your full roleclaim. Now.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

VOTE: Not Known15

Why do you need Acid's full roleclaim?
How does getting a full roleclaim from Acid benefit town and not just fucking give scum a roadmap for where to shoot?

-V

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

VOTE: jabarkas

recent posts are lamist. jabarkas' push has a lot of bark but no bite – nothing is actually accomplished by what he's doing other than projecting the image of "i'm frustrated with the lack of actitvity". explicitly saying that you're pressure voting someone doesn't mean anything, and pushing against lurkers is a great way to look like you're contributing while really not accomplishing much.

This seems forced like you’re trying too hard to make sure your vote looks like it comes from a town mindset.

Hmm hmm. This feels out of nowhere. Raging over the gamestate does nothing to change it, voting a lurker does very little. Is your hydra buddy around? Are they half as scummy as you?


-Key

PEdit: gosh, there's some ripples in the water. I approve of the Jabarkas vote for now.

In contrast to this which seems much more natural.

Jabarkas’d say for the time being Spaghettirain likely town, Southfrontguy likely scum.

-XL

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

VOTE: Acidphoenix
I want your full roleclaim. Now.

The fuck?

-XL

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Not Known15

Why do you need Acid's full roleclaim?
How does getting a full roleclaim from Acid benefit town and not just fucking give scum a roadmap for where to shoot?

-V

Because they already made some claims and some of them raise my suspicion

[Not Known 15]

My scumreads are, right now:
Possibly scum: Porkens, Dunker
May be scum, depending on the answers: Acid
Very likely scum:Northsidegal
My townreads are, right now:
Maybe town:Jarbakas

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

So how does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.
If your suspicions are that Acid has more than just a neighborizing role, digging for more information to be shared publicly is scummy as fuck and presenting that as some sort of alignment-sorting approach rather than you just rolefishing is not helpful to town.

So, answer my question;
How does getting a full roleclaim from Acid benefit town and not just fucking give scum a roadmap for where to shoot?
Then, I reiterate;
How does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.

P-EDIT:
Can you explain your possibly-scumread on Porkens, too?

-V

[Not Known 15]

So how does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.
If your suspicions are that Acid has more than just a neighborizing role, digging for more information to be shared publicly is scummy as fuck and presenting that as some sort of alignment-sorting approach rather than you just rolefishing is not helpful to town.

So, answer my question;
How does getting a full roleclaim from Acid benefit town and not just fucking give scum a roadmap for where to shoot?
Then, I reiterate;
How does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.

P-EDIT:
Can you explain your possibly-scumread on Porkens, too?

-V

Everyone has a role here did you forget?
They claimed a neighbourizing and a protective role. That looks strange to me because of what

my

role is. A bit too close, perhaps. Depends on what they really are.

P-EDIT:
Can you explain your possibly-scumread on Porkens, too?

Look at my ISO.
LUV had a strange defense on them I already pointed out.
Their refusal to answer my questions.
Their exaggeration at post 334.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NorthSideGal
Please do not out anything else about your own role.
The fact that we all have roles is not important--almost every game I've designed has been a role madness game in which every player has a role.
Setups where every player has a power role are designed around those roles being hidden. Games that are well designed always punish town for claiming their roles early.
If, by design, there are four identical roles in the same group of town, would you lynch all four of the people who claimed that kind of role?
This is NOT a normal setup. This is NOT an open setup. The rules that apply to gaming around roles in those do not apply equally.

If you bold your questions to Porkens, I'm sure they'll get to them--though question dodging is one of the weakest criticisms to make; I miss shit in games all the time.
Furthermore, LUV's slot hasn't flipped scum, so scumreading Porkens based on an associative tell is also weak.
Hyperbole =/= scum.
I'm not seeing Porkens scum, even with your explanations. Can you explain where Porken's refusal is clear scum-oriented refusal to answer and not just missing your questions? Can you explain how the exaggeration in 334 makes Porkens scum and not just using NAI hyperbole?

I know I'm being critical of you here, but I do believe you're town, especially based on your role claim and how you believe someone having a similar role makes them scum, but you really should not have claimed/softclaimed. Now, there's a pretty good chance that we've got two outed possible protective roles, which either means that you're both a large amount of our power or scum have a way to get around protections.

-V

[Not Known 15]

I was referring to my post 182 and their following post 183.
The answer came some hours later187, after I intensified the pressure on 184.
Unfortunately you are right that I didnt think of a possible setup trap. A question to the more experienced people here: Is that likely? Jarbakas says yes.
For now I will trust you which means I will
VOTE: Northsidegal
again.

[Not Known 15]

Can you explain how the exaggeration in 334 makes Porkens scum and not just using NAI hyperbole?
There were not many posts between mine and the question. Porkens also does not usually ask everyone "Why did you pick this and nothing else?"
It is normal that not all posts and sometimes only a few come under heightened suspicion. The hyperbole hid that a bit by making the reader assume that tons of pages had passed and I just picked one post... instead of picking one line of only some posts.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

Looking at it, it is weird that he'd specify 4 words but then write 'pages', though did you ask why Porkens said it was pages when it wasn't?

-V

[Not Known 15]

I told them that in 336 and no answer has been given so far.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

So I'd probably write that off as him just exaggerating and moving on, but, it's worth probing;

Porkens:

What's the deal with saying it'd been pages and then not following up when NK15 asked you further questions?

[Porkens]

I did follow up, didn't I? he asked about stuff and I said about stuff.

It felt like pages in my brain, but obv I was wrong.

VOTE: nsg

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-9

northsidegal

(3): Jabarkas Mayonnaise, Not Known 15, Porkens

Jabarkas Mayonnaise

(2): Yetichain, northsidegal

Not Known 15

(1): Dunkerdoodles

Not Voting

(3): acidphoenix, nancy, drealmerz7

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: December 18, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-12-17 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Dunkerdoodles]

nk15 wagon frozen
obv scum

[Dunkerdoodles]

nsg is a town flip i'm pretty sure

[Porkens]

Yeah probably. I decided I want to lynch acid tho because his claim was desperate. And I think his other power is maf

VOTE: acidpheonix

[northsidegal]

okay, i'm here.

Also, you're literally fucking wrong about the 'raging about the gamestate' bullshit that you're putting out, because it's very obvious within just the last two pages, based on my actions and the reactions of others, that the game state HAS changed dramatically. So, y'know, maybe don't literally deny the reality of the situation in order to spout a platitude to defend a vote you have and give platform to the replace-in who's parroting you and yes-manning your wagon.

what was the dramatic shift in the game state, and what was the reality that keychain was denying? how was i parroting keychain? she's hardly been pushing you as scum very seriously – i didn't even realize that anyone else was voting you. also of note is that i'm pretty sure me and keychain have about the same number of completed games on-site, despite the differences in joindate.

People who make a lot of noise tend to arouse ire.

it's always seemed to me like the most verbose players are always the hardest to lynch.

northsidegal when you have the time could you run me through your thoughts on Varsoon from as early in the game as you had any to now? You're my strongest scumread right now and I haven't seen much from you in the way of thoughts from other players so if you're town here being a little more transparent with where you're at and what your thought process has been on Varsoon and maybe ~1-2 other slots would be very helpful in getting me to see that.

nothing had really stood out to me when i was first following along with the game. that might sound like a cop out, but i analyze games i'm not in less than games that i am in. looking back he's been pushing this idea of pressuring lurkers for a while (186, 200, 207, 212, so on and so on). it wasn't until about page 15 or 16 that it really began to ping me as scummy.

I know how it can be,

but saying "That's how games are; no one really posts anything until 72 hours before deadline hits" reinforces a site meta where that's the case

. As a player and moderator who hates that shit, I'm going to actively stand against it when I have the chance to.

who said anything to that effect?

[northsidegal]

NSG are you saying that you aren't posting because he threatened you?

where'd you get that idea? where did he threaten me? also, no, i wasn't saying that.

My current conundrum is if NSG actually believes in what they're putting forth or if they're just using a level-1 (ostensibly town) approach as an excuse for leading a wagon on what would flip as the first mislynch of the game.

i really don't like this sentence. it's hard to put into words the reasons, but i think everyone should just look at it for a bit.

it feels like such a non-statement. like, "my current conundrum is whether this player is telling the truth, in which case they would be town, or if they're lying, in which case they would be scum."


also, why are you still voting me if you scumread keychain more than me? or was there something that i missed?

[Porkens]

Your post did nothing to induce me to action

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

what was the dramatic shift in the game state, and what was the reality that keychain was denying? how was i parroting keychain? she's hardly been pushing you as scum very seriously – i didn't even realize that anyone else was voting you. also of note is that i'm pretty sure me and keychain have about the same number of completed games on-site, despite the differences in joindate.

The shift I'm referring to is a huge one of game momentum, where there were no informed and urgent wagons being pushed, to people making votes with justification. We're now in a gamestate where wagons have actually accumulated more than a single pressure/prodding/RVS sort of vote. Players are actually grappling with the content other players are putting down.

The reality that Keychain was denying was that my posts where I am 'raging' did not have an effect on the momentum of the game, moving it towards the gamestate described above. Yetichain was presenting my play as futile whining and possibly forced LAMIST AtE, when the reality was that I was actively pressuring lower content players into engaging with the game while using rhetoric to push everyone towards more active engagement. It has very clearly worked, because after I have done so, you voted for me based on those posts, Yetichain doubled down on me, Acid came into the game with the most posts they've had since and (unfortunately) softclaimed, NK15 responded to that soft, Dunkerdoodles elaborated on reads, Porkens directly addressed an issue that was happening between slots, etc.

I saw a parallel between your vote justification and where Yetichain left a vote on me for reasons that felt like they were NAI (not alignment-indicative), such as being frustrated with the gamestate and pushing for more active play. It seemed that you were reinforcing a lot of what Yetichain had laid foundation for, though there was a distinct difference in the way that you went about pushing your vote/justifying it on me (which I've already talked about in regards to the reason I think your vote/play is more likely to come from town).

I didn't realize you have similar game completes--I had only been thinking about time spent on-site and the fact I've been in games Keychain has been in.

I know how it can be,

but saying "That's how games are; no one really posts anything until 72 hours before deadline hits" reinforces a site meta where that's the case

. As a player and moderator who hates that shit, I'm going to actively stand against it when I have the chance to.

who said anything to that effect?

Every time someone says that they deadline is a week long and they can afford to wait to post reinforces the site meta notion that (especially D1) games should be played all the way to the deadline and that it's alright to be sparse on play/content creation while the deadline is not immediately impending. It's frustrating to see drealmerz, someone who is actively against the effect longer deadlines have in games, use a longer deadline as an excuse not to be engaged with a game from the start.

My current conundrum is if NSG actually believes in what they're putting forth or if they're just using a level-1 (ostensibly town) approach as an excuse for leading a wagon on what would flip as the first mislynch of the game.

i really don't like this sentence. it's hard to put into words the reasons, but i think everyone should just look at it for a bit.

it feels like such a non-statement. like, "my current conundrum is whether this player is telling the truth, in which case they would be town, or if they're lying, in which case they would be scum."

also, why are you still voting me if you scumread keychain more than me? or was there something that i missed?

It's a pretty straightforward statement. I'm unable to accurately tell if you are being genuine with your rhetoric and push or if you realized that I would be a wagon that you, as scum, could adopt an early vote on and justify (more or less) leading a wagon on despite the fact my flip will heavily draw lynch-attention to your slot. It's not as simple as "what if they are lying?"; it's a statement that I am having difficulty seeing how you can continue to justify your vote one me and curious how much of that is motivated by either a scum or town approach. By voting you and continuing to suss out exactly why you are voting me, I can get a better idea of exactly what that motivation may be, and I have. Yes, I still read Keychain's vote as much more likely to be coming from a scum point of view, but I'm currently figuring your slot out because you're here/engaged and because you've been much quicker to town-justify your vote than Keychain has their's, which is something that my hydra partner has also noticed.

In fact, you asking why I'm not voting Keychain over you only further thickens that conundrum for me, because I'm not sure if you've realized what I've mentioned in the previous paragraph (I'm suspect of you both but more keen on sorting you right now) or if you're actively setting Keychain up as a fall guy when my wagon flips.

So, in short; why are you still voting for me? Do you understand where I am coming from about why Keychain's vote on me is a scummy vote and, if so, why are you on a wagon that also features such a poor vote?

-V

quote tag fixed ~f

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

Aw man, I messed up my quote tags there.

@Mod:

Can you fix the quote tags in post 472 so that it properly reflects that everything between Northsidegal's quote of my post 426 and the hanging [/quote] box is properly reflective of NSG's post 470?

-V

[Porkens]

I'm going to offer this alternative:

VOTE: Jabarkas Mayonnaise

Reason: Masterminding.

Evidence: Every post.

Theory: Scum trying to use his cache to lynch easy newbs.

Full disclosure:

redacted