Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

[drealmerz7]

he's kind of like a deformed not fully grown head though

just kind of bobbing at the side of the main head with not much capacity to do much

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

I'd compromise outside of Yeti, but that's where I'd really want to lynch.
How do you read NK15's claim as anything but a hard claim of a neighbor/protective?
Dude literally says, "THAT IS KIND OF WHAT MY ROLE IS" as he does what he clearly believes is a counterclaim, which, once he realizes counterclaims aren't a thing in closed setups, he walks back from it.
There's a thousand different ways to rolefish but literally going, "That's my role, though!" and, what's weirder, is specifying the protective part, when acid didn't mention anything about being protective, I just can't read that as anything but town.

But again, outside of all of that role-related conversation, what makes NK15 such a huge candidate for today's lynch?

-V

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

Like, has no one else realized that Yeti literally just ghosted after saying he'd focus outside of me in post 528?
I put all this pressure on him, his wagon starts to actually build votes, and instead of address any of that, he's just like "Guess we're gonna agree to scumread each other! I'll do other things!" and then he literally hasn't done any other things outside of make a singular post since then.
He's had one post since then, to lay a vote on NSG and that's it--and that was after two whole days had passed. It's been two days since then. At this pace, Yetichain's going to skirt through the rest of this day phase with one more post.

I can't fathom how people allow that to live but are quick to sheep up a wagon that's on a claimed protective D1.

-V

[fferyllt]

acidphoenix and Yetichain have been prodded.

[Porkens]

I'd compromise outside of Yeti, but that's where I'd really want to lynch.
How do you read NK15's claim as anything but a hard claim of a neighbor/protective?
Dude literally says, "THAT IS KIND OF WHAT MY ROLE IS" as he does what he clearly believes is a counterclaim, which, once he realizes counterclaims aren't a thing in closed setups, he walks back from it.
There's a thousand different ways to rolefish but literally going, "That's my role, though!" and, what's weirder, is specifying the protective part, when acid didn't mention anything about being protective, I just can't read that as anything but town.

But again, outside of all of that role-related conversation, what makes NK15 such a huge candidate for today's lynch?

-V

V, seriously, are you fucking with me? How is "I SUSPECT HIM BECAUSE OF MY ROLE" a "hardclaim" AT ALL?

"kind of" is not part of a hardclaim.

You are weirdly misrepresenting this

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

If we both think each other is scum and nobody is going to read our argument, we're just making meaningless noise. I still do think you're scum but I'll do other things for now.

This is what I'm talking about. In the same post, he spends some time parsing out his reads on some other people and making a small case for DunkerDoodle as scum, but doesn't really do all that much else besides asking NSG a question that doesn't really seem to inform anything.

And then there's two days of no posts, followed by a vote on NSG with the logic that it's coming from his previous scumread on her (which strikes me as strange, because he has a scumread on me--does he think she's bussing?), which is especially awkward because, looking through his ISO, I don't see ANY engagement with NSG or even real mention of scumreading NSG at all. The NSG scumread seems to come out of thin air, and I'd really like it if Yetichain could explain it some more, because it looks very arbitrary to me. It would make sense for Yeti to vote Dunkerdoodles here, given the earlier casing and trajectory, or at least attempt some kind of engagement there, but Yeti asks NSG what her read on him is and then, without anything else, goes in with a vote there, then disappears for two more days at least.

How's that town play?

-V

[nancy]

I don't think it is but I'm full of doubt and would feel bad mislynching her day 1.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

So how does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.
If your suspicions are that Acid has more than just a neighborizing role, digging for more information to be shared publicly is scummy as fuck and presenting that as some sort of alignment-sorting approach rather than you just rolefishing is not helpful to town.

So, answer my question;
How does getting a full roleclaim from Acid benefit town and not just fucking give scum a roadmap for where to shoot?
Then, I reiterate;
How does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.

P-EDIT:
Can you explain your possibly-scumread on Porkens, too?

-V

Everyone has a role here did you forget?
They claimed a neighbourizing and a protective role. That looks strange to me because of what

my

role is. A bit too close, perhaps. Depends on what they really are.

P-EDIT:
Can you explain your possibly-scumread on Porkens, too?

Look at my ISO.
LUV had a strange defense on them I already pointed out.
Their refusal to answer my questions.
Their exaggeration at post 334.

So it should be REALLY clear from what I was posting that I suspected NK15 of rolefishing at the time of these posts.
Then NK15 literally writes, "[Acid] claimed a neighbourizing and a protective role. That looks strange to me because of what

my

role is. A bit too close, perhaps. Depends on what they really are."
Acid never claimed a protective role. The fact NK15 says that a neighborizing and protective role is 'a bit too close' to WHAT HIS ROLE IS strikes me as both a protective-slip and a soft-claim of neighborize/protective role.
If you consider the posts that follow, it becomes really clear that NK15 was attempting to counterclaim.
What I'm saying is that I don't understand how people scumread NK15 after this entire exchange, especially after the above post and the following:

I was referring to my post 182 and their following post 183.
The answer came some hours later187, after I intensified the pressure on 184.
Unfortunately you are right that I didnt think of a possible setup trap. A question to the more experienced people here: Is that likely? Jarbakas says yes.
For now I will trust you which means I will
VOTE: Northsidegal
again.

It surprises me that people are voting NK15 without pressuring him around this and asking him directly questions related to what informed his play and what motivations he had there, especially if they still scumread him after that interaction. That's what I'm saying: The NK15 wagon isn't a wagon that I find to be lead by convincing casework and there's no engagement or argument that's convincingly explained why we should lynch someone who has soft-claimed neighborizing protective in the way I've just outlined.

-V

[nancy]

Whereas lynching either of acidphoenix or Dunkerdoodles wouldn't cost town anything if they are town and I wouldn't feel bad.

[drealmerz7]

that is not "attempting a counterclaim"

ugh

[Porkens]

that's not a hardclaim, you can interpret it however you like.

I could lynch Yetichain, for sure.

[nancy]

In other words I'm a milquetoast.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

@Drealz: He's saying that he's suspicious of someone's alignment because their roleclaim is very close to what his own role is.
When explained that a closed setup doesn't allow for counterclaims, he then votes elsewhere and rationalizes that similarity in roles could be a 'setup trap' and not be indicative of alignment.
How is that anything other than a counterclaim?

@Porkens: It's definitely a softclaim (now that I look at it directly and think of it for awhile), but the awkwardness of bringing up the 'protective' part strikes me as a slip more than anything and the 'bit too close to my role' with the bold makes it really firm that he's claiming his PR is within that domain. It's about as hard a soft-claim as you can make, though.

-V

[nancy]

Fwiw I mostly agree with Varsoon's interpretation but don't think it makes NK15 lock town.

[drealmerz7]

@Drealz: He's saying that he's suspicious of someone's alignment because their roleclaim is very close to what his own role is.
When explained that a closed setup doesn't allow for counterclaims, he then votes elsewhere and rationalizes that similarity in roles could be a 'setup trap' and not be indicative of alignment.
How is that anything other than a counterclaim?
-V

you're assuming he's being completely forthcoming and not manipulative or shady

[drealmerz7]

milquetoast.

great song!

[drealmerz7]

I'm ready to see the color of someone's blood...

[Yetichain]

Prod received. Sorry I had... a bit of a moment. There's ten pages to catch up on so I'm skimming.

Most important thing is that we're both going to be V/LA for the next couple days with no internet access which is over deadline I think. Sorry again. So tonight is all I've got. I'll see what I can do.

I'm partway through and it looks like NK15 is top wagon judging from most recent VC. I don't know if they've claimed yet or the wagon has died but if they're still on the line I think that is a really really bad idea.


-Key

[drealmerz7]

WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS A BAD IDEA

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

I don't think it makes him lock town either, I just don't get how the wagon on him doesn't approach it.
Drealmerz, where do you see it as manipulative/shady?


-V

[Yetichain]

I don't think the way they've softed their role comes from scum ever and I also don't believe they have a scum role. Not willing to discuss it further than that at this point, I'm sorry but I truly don't think it's a good idea. I've played like absolute rubbish thus far though, so I understand if you're not willing to take it on faith.

I'm all skimmed up and now I have some things to answer I believe.

[Yetichain]

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

Yeti, you have unanswered questions.

These questions can be answered in one, though as I've just said it doesn't matter and I'm not going to be voting here. You don't have to scumread me but when players lack suspicion towards me, I have little alarm bells that go off in my head. Town doesn't know who to trust -> suspicion is towny -> lack of suspicion is scummy, is the basic breakdown.

[Not Known 15]

I don't think the way they've softed their role comes from scum ever and I also don't believe they have a scum role. Not willing to discuss it further than that at this point, I'm sorry but I truly don't think it's a good idea. I've played like absolute rubbish thus far though, so I understand if you're not willing to take it on faith.

I'm all skimmed up and now I have some things to answer I believe.

Indeed.

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

Yeti, you have unanswered questions.

[Not Known 15]

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

Yeti, you have unanswered questions.

These questions can be answered in one, though as I've just said it doesn't matter and I'm not going to be voting here. You don't have to scumread me but when players lack suspicion towards me, I have little alarm bells that go off in my head. Town doesn't know who to trust -> suspicion is towny -> lack of suspicion is scummy, is the basic breakdown.

ah ok. If I see no good reason for suspecting someone I won't do it. I have good reasons to suspect multiple people.

So... yeti. What do you think of Little Uzi Vert/Northsidegal?

[nancy]

Would be good if you created content rather than just answered questions @Yeti