Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[skitter30]

I'm trying to find the posts that made me think you were the investigative so that I can see if this matches the way you were behaving day 3, but I can't pin it to specific posts :/ I think it was a subconscious thing.

This is textbook confirmation bias.

The only thing wave has used to try and prove his claim is a really bad crumb. That's extremely telling.

Remember jjh's recent game? That's what playing to a power role looks like. Hinting that the neighborizor needed to be offed regardless of alignment played to my role. Immediately trusting the D1 pr claim because of how it played to my role. Wave has done nothing close to that, and if he had, he would have noted it.

I mean, post mass-claim and pre Serg's claim, I def was thinking that there had to another investigative. I thought it was wave, with an off-chance of it being Seph actually. I never imagined it was Serg tbh.

I never put it in the thread though, so it's not like I set up wave to claim it.

But that's why it's semi-believable to me, cuz I was half thinking that already; I'm semi-decent at PR hunting tbh.

But yeah I know what you mean. That's why I believed you there, over Dunk even though I thought Dunk was a bad target, cuz you were playing pretty much textbook how I thought that PR would play. In fact, I literally said after you claimed that I was getting those vibes mid-day 1 and was thinking about pushing you for not really doing much that first day, but decided not to because I was aware it might be because you were a PR trying to stay under the radar.

So that's why I'm having trouble here, because from my POV, it's a pretty similar scenario. I thought someone might claim PR before they did, didn't set it up for them in thread, and they did. And I can understand his POV why he didn't claim yesterday.

Difference between you in 1954 and wave here is that I was able to point to exact posts and general behavior from you that made me think that. Going back, I don't know where I got those vibes from wave.

And I just checked 1931 again; he lied his way through mass-claim there too. He claimed to be a VT as even-night tracker during the PR-clusterfuck (but got himself night-killed before he had to come clean about lying) .... so there is def precedent for this.

[wavemode]

I also started a crumb in that game that I didn't finish. It just says "EVEN"

[skitter30]

Yeah I was going to ask if you recalled crumbing there but I wasn't sure if you'd remember. I def don't have patience tonight to reread that game and see if your pre-mass-claim behavior matched how you played here; maybe I will if I'm really bored later this week or something lol.

[implosion]

Deadline extension is yes please.

I unfortunately was+am lazy today alas. I am kind of slogging a bit tbh (not for reasons related to this game) and don't have the most motivation to think hard about this game. I will still try to find motivation to iso flub as soon as I can; I *certainly* will have the energy on Saturday if not before then but really should at some point before then.

[Sergtacos]

im fine with lyncing wave

[wavemode]

Well then that's a 3/3 split, so no lynch

It's reasonably likely they kill implosion or skitter for being on my side so Serg you need to gunsmith Seph tonight. Tomorrow when you find he has a gun you'll see things my way. Alternatively, if you find he doesn't have a gun, feel free to lynch me on the spot

[skitter30]

Uh, wave, that post is kinda ick.

1. I don't think a no-lynch is ever optimal here, as it just kicks the problem down the road to tomorrow. You're assuming me/implosion gets killed .... implosion literally never gets killed here. If he's scum, duh. If he's town, he's the last available mislynch scum have to win. And you're banking the game on an investigation Serg likely never gets the results for cuz he's the optimal kill here in order to prevent literally the scenario you described. You said you think Serg is town here after yesterday, and you didn't claim yesterday since you thought you were the investigative and a bigger threat than Chip and thought you would be dead if you claimed ... Why aren't you applying that logic to Serg here?

2. Why are you assuming that neither me nor Serg will change our minds here? Like why are you pushing this when the guy who's actually conftown just showed up and said he wants to lynch you? Instead of giving me the opportunity to talk to him about it or like actually asking him why he thinks that? Like why are you assuming we won't find a compromise when we have several days given the probable deadline extension?

3. You're also banking the game on Seph being a scum!PR that isn't a doc .... if he's a doc, Serg gets a gunsmith clear and you're telling us to lynch you anyways.

Like what you're suggesting is a good idea only in a very narrow set of circumstances, most of which you can't control if you're town.

[skitter30]

Also Serg, you wanna tell me why wave?

[wavemode]

Mm, maybe we're having a miscommunication. I never said a no-lynch was ideal, I'm simply preparing for the eventuality. Forgive me for planning ahead but Serg hasn't been super checked into the game because of what time of year it is so I felt it needed to be said now while he's online. I specifically

don't

want a no-lynch scenario, and I

especially

don't want a no-lynch scenario where we go into tomorrow and Serg is alive but he checked someone other than Seph. I understand your point about the night kills but I've been in these exact scenarios and it always goes poorly when town make assumptions on who the scumteam is going to kill. In fact sometimes a PR assumes they will get killed and submits no action.

This is all I feel I can offer him at this point since I don't think me grilling him on why he thinks I'm scum is going to make him think I'm any less scum. You talking to him is exactly what I'm hoping for.

[wavemode]

In fact sometimes a PR assumes they will get killed and submits no action.

Porkens did this in a mini I just played

[Sephiroth]

OK, so you're saying that you *hadn't* realized we were in MYLO at that point?

Correct.

Right, so this is the tricky bit, trying to figure out if you didn't realize, or if you 'didn't realize'.

My two cents on this topic is that if I were scum, fully aware that we are in MYLO, and fully aware that TIAM is scum likely to die, what benefit do I gain from 'not realizing' its MYLO and coming out swinging on the bus? It would be a much more effective play to acknowledge that we may be in MYLO and make the same post about TIAM without voting, gaining some towncred on the way. Its WIFOM but I mean, it just doesn't give scum much benefit to purposefully not acknowledge the game state here.

LIke why would scum go through the effort of trying to defend him there? If he ended up getting lynched, they'd be tied inextricably to him. (Btw, whoever scum is, I think you did a really good job distancing; I tend to scumhunt a lot through associatives and they've been practically worthless this game between the four of you lol)

You mean why would wavemode go through the trouble of defending TIAM? Perhaps he thought he could prevent the lynch based on the way people were responding to TIAM's meta yesterday, especially considering he was one of the main voices calling TIAM's behavior NAI and he is notably pretty damn good at convincing others that his view is correct. Maybe he figures you'll make this exact argument (if we want to get WIFOMy). And given that the timing of his crumb necessitates him thinking about a fake claim yesterday he knows that he has this gambit to fall back on if he comes close to being lynched. I think the situation the claim puts him in can outweigh the association IF the town buys the claim (I mean, this seems to be the case for you). All this to say, he can make the "why would I buddy" argument all the while simultaneously knowing in the back of his head that the association most likely won't get him lynched.

And I totally feel you on the rational thing. You're right. I am holding you to a higher standard cuz, well from what I've seen this game, I think you're a pretty good player.

I've thoroughly enjoyed playing with you and with several people in this game. Despite the degree of randomness and non-optimal play, this has been a really enjoyable game, especially considering I haven't played in a long time so this is a 'Comeback' game of sorts.

I mean, from your POV he should be confscum for doing this ... it isn't exactly an OMGUS situation - or at least, what I'd apply that term to. (Like I'd call OMGUS to be like mid-day 2 I call you scum and you retaliate by scumreading me). I'd call this more of a 1v1 since the two of you are in a direct cc here. Like that's what I was kinda missing from that post .... yes you mention that he's scum, but he should literally be confscum from your POV here and you just seem to lacking that conviction I guess.

Sorry, using OMGUS was an egregious misuse of mafia terminology. I was more referring to the idea of an angry/kneejerk 'IM VANILLA YOURE LYING" vote. My primary feeling after the claim was one of surprise. Then respect for Wave for making the play he did. I wasn't angry or indignant so that didn't come through in my post.

I was more interested in speaking to

other

reasons the claim didn't hold up beyond shouting I'M VANILLA. From any perspective that isn't mine, wave is only confscum if I can prove his claim is false. I guess my point is, my conviction that wave is scum because I'm vanilla is a meaningless one to harp on since no one else has that information or is convinced when I say it.

Like this is true .... but from your POV he's confscum so we need to lynch him to win. Like you voting wave and convincing us is kinda important for that to happen. Yes defending yourself is important, but I guess what I'm saying is that from your POV, you have confscum, and you seem less interested in pursuing that than making sure you don't get lynched.

If I'm lynched, we lose. And at the time I posted, things seemed to be leaning towards me getting lynched. I think it makes more sense to focus on debunking the claim and defending myself from what I view as a likely lynch. Up until Flubber's post I was pretty certain I was done since everyone else seemed to buy the claim. If people wind up not lynching me because I convinced them the claim is fake, Wave being lynched is 100% gonna happen. I dunno, I think my tone and approach makes sense here although I will acknowledge that a lot of players would respond more like you expected.

Like if you contrast your behavior with Serg (had a guilty on Two) or wave (claims to have an effective guilty on you), both of them approached it from the angle of 'hey I found confscum and we need to lynch them'. You're approaching it more from 'hey this is why we shouldn't lynch me and also hey look at conf!scum wave'. Like it's more survivalistic and less 'let's lynch the confscum', which I tend to think is more likely to come from scum. Like you're focused on making sure *you* aren't the lynch today instead of lynching scum. Like I get that if you're town we lose .... but we also lose if we don't lynch confscum wave today.

If I'm scum and I get lynched, the game continues. If I'm town and get lynched, we instantly lose. One could argue town has more reason to be survivalist here than scum, but more importantly I don't think focusing first on not getting lynched is bad play from either alignment. And as I mentioned above, if I DO succeed in defending myself the natural consequence is lynching the fakeclaiming conf!scum. Win-Win.

[skitter30]

Well then that's a 3/3 split, so no lynch

To me this sounds like you're resigned to a no-lynch, and the rest of the post sounds like once you've decided we're deadlocked and that we're going to no-lynch anyways,we might as well figure out how to optimize tonight/tomorrow.

I don't get why you'd be thinking about a no-lynch right now at all.

Forgive me for planning ahead but Serg hasn't been super checked into the game because of what time of year it is so I felt it needed to be said now while he's online.

He hasn't .... but he's been paying enough attention to speak up when it matters and to ask clarification when he isn't sure about something. Even his last post demonstrates that he's reading through.

I specifically don't want a no-lynch scenario, and I especially don't want a no-lynch scenario where we go into tomorrow and Serg is alive but he checked someone other than Seph.

Like do you really think I'm letting the day end with a no-lynch, or that I wouldn't make sure to discuss the lynch and optimal night actions with him? After I told Chip like four billion times yesterday *exactly* what he was supposed to do depending on the flip?

And tbh, checking implosion would not exactly the worst things on the planet either. Like with your claimed check on him, serg could clear him as a VT or get a guilty on a goon.

I understand your point about the night kills but I've been in these exact scenarios and it always goes poorly when town make assumptions on who the scumteam is going to kill. In fact sometimes a PR assumes they will get killed and submits no action.

Yeah ... my whole point is that we shouldn't make assumptions on who the scumteam is going to kill. You're telling me that you agree with me that town shouldn't make assumptions about the kill, but your post hinges on the assumption that they won't kill Serg. I don't understand why you'd assume that, especially given that your reason for lying through massclaim is that you thought you'd be the kill if you claimed investigative - why wouldn't Serg be the kill here if he's the proven investigative, one who happens to not be embroiled in a 1v1?

Like I'm not saying that Serg is for sure going to die tonight if we lynch correctly today, but there's a better than decent chance that it's going to be him. To resign yourself to a no-lynch and bank the game on him not dying tonight and Seph being a not-doc-scum-PR seems irresponsible.

LIke are you trying to argue that they might not kill him because they think he wouldn't submit an action or something? I don't get it. And scum killing town!imposion here is about as likely as me getting lynched today. Like it's just not happening. I don't get why you're turning this into a convo about town making assumptions about the nk.

That whole last post belies a scummy sort of impatience that I don't like much at all.

[wavemode]

Well skitter what you're reading into it and what I meant are in conflict. I haven't resigned to anything and nothing I wrote says that I have, so I'm not sure what I can say to that at this point except, you're misunderstanding. I guess you're taking when I say "no lynch" to mean "today will end in a no lynch" (if that's what I had said I'd agree with you. It makes no sense for me to say something like that) But really it just meant "no lynch right now." As in, we need to make plans and not sit around. To that end, it should be made clear who needs to be investigated tonight. This right here:

Like I'm not saying that Serg is for sure going to die tonight

Was literally the only reason for my post. We don't know for sure, and we shouldn't make assumptions about it.

[skitter30]

I guess you're taking when I say "no lynch" to mean "today will end in a no lynch" (if that's what I had said I'd agree with you. It makes no sense for me to say something like that) But really it just meant "no lynch right now."

It read to me like you were suggesting that a no-lynch today was likely. Like I'm trying to read it the way you framed it here, but that post really sounds to me like you thought we were deadlocked and that a no-lynch was happening and that we might as well figure out night-actions.

(I'd ask everyone else what they think about it, but I'm pretty sure everyone's just going to tell me what they think I want to hear, so yeah.)

And even if you're saying that it meant 'no lynch right now', there wasn't going to be a lynch then anyways, regardless of what Serg said then and no matter whose side he's on, so I don't know why you felt the need to bring that up; I don't think anyone was thinking that there was going to be a lynch just then.

And even if we lynch correctly today and the game doesn't end, the instructions that you gave Serg aren't necessarily optimal here and I don't know if I per se agree with them. Like I dislike you casting them as 'Serg needs to check Seph' when from your POV, Serg might be dying and Seph could well be a scum!doc. Then even if Serg does somehow survive, checking Seph would clear him, and you told us to lynch you if Seph gets cleared.

You're saying that Serg *needs* to check Seph, like that's his optimal night action, but scum!doc!Seph should be a valid scenario from your POV, and doing that would lose the game cuz you told us to lynch you if Serg clears him. Like I'm not sure why you've just discounted that possibility.

Even beyond the no-lynch thing, that post was really bad because the instructions you gave Serg just don't make much sense from your POV :/

----

My two cents on this topic is that if I were scum, fully aware that we are in MYLO, and fully aware that TIAM is scum likely to die, what benefit do I gain from 'not realizing' its MYLO and coming out swinging on the bus? It would be a much more effective play to acknowledge that we may be in MYLO and make the same post about TIAM without voting, gaining some towncred on the way. Its WIFOM but I mean, it just doesn't give scum much benefit to purposefully not acknowledge the game state here.

I mean, my point is that you could have not realized as either alignment, but that scum!you would inherently be less likely to be worried about this since you'd know we weren't about to lynch town.

I feel like I've gotten most of what I want from this discussion though, so thanks for clarifying your thought process.
----

Right now I'm leaning more towards believing Seph, as a confluence of several factors:

a) I can't figure out why I thought wave might claim PR and after going through wave's ISO, I can't really find posts that substantiate the notion that he was playing from that mindset all game, only from post mass-claim; usually I can point to specific posts/attitudes that make sense coming from a PR mindset and I just can't find what made me think that here.

b) That post above is incredibly gross and I really hate it.

c) I was townreading Seph through most of day1-2 and after going through his ISO I still think it's mostly townie. Like most of the above discussion is nit-picky, and I can understand all of it coming from a town mindset. Like the worst thing I really see from him is starting off probable MYLO voting, and a quickvote wasn't especially likely there given that we'd only have a quicklynch if a non-existent SK voted with a three-man scumteam.

d) The only person I know is town is tending towards believing Seph (Serg, still want you to elaborate though).

------

@Wave, I did just go through your 1931 ISO again to see how you played town even-night tracker.

(I can't find any *recent* games of Seph tbh to look at, even under the alt; meta from five months ago (and from games that I was in) is more valuable to me than meta from five years ago)

This is kinda interesting in light of the above post. so's this one, etc..

And this in light of you pushing mass-claim yesterday.

[wavemode]

And even if you're saying that it meant 'no lynch right now', there wasn't going to be a lynch then anyways, regardless of what Serg said then and no matter whose side he's on, so I don't know why you felt the need to bring that up; I don't think anyone was thinking that there was going to be a lynch just then.

I'm actually not sure what you mean by this. I'm pretty sure with support from Serg we would have then begun lynching Sephiroth. I suppose it's true that there would have been talk of night actions (well, not really. there'd only be one person left for serg to check at that point, and that's imp) and other theories, but bottom line is we would have started wrapping up the day.

And even if we lynch correctly today and the game doesn't end, the instructions that you gave Serg aren't necessarily optimal here and I don't know if I per se agree with them. Like I dislike you casting them as 'Serg needs to check Seph' when from your POV, Serg might be dying and Seph could well be a scum!doc. Then even if Serg does somehow survive, checking Seph would clear him, and you told us to lynch you if Seph gets cleared.

You're saying that Serg *needs* to check Seph, like that's his optimal night action, but scum!doc!Seph should be a valid scenario from your POV, and doing that would lose the game cuz you told us to lynch you if Serg clears him. Like I'm not sure why you've just discounted that possibility.

Even beyond the no-lynch thing, that post was really bad because the instructions you gave Serg just don't make much sense from your POV :/

I mean, you're allowed to disagree; nobody says you aren't. But as for me, I absolutely do consider it the best course of action so yes, I framed it that way on purpose. Serg scumreading me and checking implosion and being alive tomorrow still results in me getting lynched, by serg and seph and flubber, and us losing. A no-lynch here is super un-ideal, but at least if he checks Seph then I've got a shot, since in the grand scheme of things Seph *most likely* isn't scum doc. I think my point of view there is pretty straightforward. I'm confused as to why you consider it "really bad."

[wavemode]

This is kinda interesting in light of the above post. so's this one, etc..

And this in light of you pushing mass-claim yesterday.

I assume you're asking my rationale for those posts? Well let's see then

First one seems straightforward enough. If you have a 1v1 you pick a side, you don't go lynching some other person.

What is it you want to know about the second link?

Same question for the third link. I imagine because I said massclaim was premature? I mean, it was at the time.

[Sergtacos]

extend deadline

i want extended deadline too

when is the deadline again?

[Sergtacos]

my god a lot of catching up to do D:

[Nexus]

Votecount 4.3:

Sephiroth (1)

- wavemode

wavemode (1)

- Sephiroth

Not voting (4)

- Sergtacos, implosion, skitter30, Flubbernugget,

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch

Deadline is at 4pm GMT on Tuesday 26th December 2017 (expired on 2017-12-26 17:00:00)

[skitter30]

I'm actually not sure what you mean by this. I'm pretty sure with support from Serg we would have then begun lynching Sephiroth. I suppose it's true that there would have been talk of night actions (well, not really. there'd only be one person left for serg to check at that point, and that's imp) and other theories, but bottom line is we would have started wrapping up the day.

OK, fair. If Serg had wanted to lynch Seph that would have been it. But he wants to lynch you (although I'm no longer certain he's actually caught up ...), so it was a 3-3 tie as you pointed out.

Is the following what you meant?

'well then that's a 3-3 split, so there won't be a lynch right now'

I mean, you're allowed to disagree; nobody says you aren't. But as for me, I absolutely do consider it the best course of action so yes, I framed it that way on purpose. Serg scumreading me and checking implosion and being alive tomorrow still results in me getting lynched, by serg and seph and flubber, and us losing. A no-lynch here is super un-ideal, but at least if he checks Seph then I've got a shot, since in the grand scheme of things Seph *most likely* isn't scum doc. I think my point of view there is pretty straightforward. I'm confused as to why you consider it "really bad."

I hadn't actually thought through all the night-action choices, but here goes:

Spoiler:

-Serg checks Seph. Serg dies, result is irrelevant

-Serg checks Seph. I die (I'm pretty sure I'm the only other night-kill that makes sense after a no-lynch here). Seph doesn't have a gun (scum!doc or VT). Wave gets lynched. Game ends if Seph is VT, game continues if he's scum!doc.

-Serg checks Seph. I die. Seph has a gun. Seph is lynched. Game continues.

-Serg checks Imp. Serg dies, result is irrelevant.

- Serg checks Imp. I die. Imp has a gun. He gets lynched. Game continues.

- Serg checks Imp. I die. Imp does not have gun. Coupled with your clear, he's conf VT. Seph and Flubber vote Wave. Wave and Imp vote Seph. Down to Serg.

(Again, finally figured out what caused that initial gut reaction, took me a while):

Like I'm saying that this whole convo is kinda silly because the night-action you're proposing only makes sense if we no-lynch, which is ridiculously sub-optimal here. If we lynch wrong, the game ends, so it doesn't matter. If we lynch scum!Seph, Wave is confVC, so Serg is going to check Implosion because he already checked me and Flubber. If we lynch scum!wave, Seph is town, so Serg is going to check Implosion because he already checked me and Flubber (although to be fair I suppose this could be some sort of elaborate scum theatre between you and Seph, but meh, not worrying about that right now, and this wasn't the scenario you were proposing - or are ever going to propose - anyways).

Like the option of checking Seph is only vaguely relevant if we no-lynch. If we lynch correctly, Implosion gets checked here like always I think because the townie in {wave/seph} is pseudo-cleared for winning the 1v1. And that's why I read your post the way I did, because the only universe where checking Seph even makes sense is if we no-lynch.

Your whole post kinda fundamentally hinges on the possibility of a no-lynch because I don't think Seph ever gets checked if we lynch correctly, and if we lynch wrong, the game ends anyways.

And that's what I don't get it. No-lynching makes no sense here because we need to just resolve this today, and your post is implicitly trying to resolve the consequences of a no-lynch. Like that post just doesn't make sense in a universe where we lynch correctly.

[skitter30]

my god a lot of catching up to do D:

Let me know when you've caught up and can talk!

[skitter30]

Thank you for the extension!

[implosion]

Spoiler: Flub case

Flubber's posting day one pre-Mulch is very... boring. He takes a lot of stances, but very few of them feel like they can be read in to. He eventually settles on three scumreads of Wossi, Chip, Lalendra, though he briefly was suspicious of wave. 131 is somewhat interesting; it's in response to my 127, and could be scum-Flub trying to throw me off from looking more closely at his wagon that had TIAM on it.

In 476 he appears after three days and votes for Mulch without mentioning anything else he found notable that had happened (iirc this was the first Mulch vote). In 504 he criticizes Wicked for having the "best that he can come up with" being to vote Wossi, despite Flubber having had a scumread on Wossi that continued up until his 3 day absence, and eventually retracts that scumread in 644 for no real reason other than being vaguely suspicious of the pushes on Wossi and the fact that they were heavily based on Wossi's early play. This doesn't make sense to me from someone who agreed with that reasoning at the time; he ignored Wicked's reply in 511 which I feel is pretty relevant. He essentially used the Wossi stuff as a way to pivot into casting vague, unsubstantiated aspersions toward the wagon without really naming anyone on it. It's a wonderful way to make it look like he's doing work in the game without pissing off any particular person; in particular he has a tendency to call people scummy and then completely ignore them afterward. This can be seen in him accusing Wicked, then ignoring Wicked's reply. He did something similar with me later after the Mulch hammer, though he did respond to me when I responded to him. Basically all of these pushes - on me, on wicked, on wossi, on wavemode, on lalendra and on chip - on literally half of the player list - all amount to nothing. He never pressures ANYONE on this list. He votes Wossi early on, says he's still scummy a couple times, then decries the Wossi wagon. He never commits to ANY stances. He votes SERG of all people first thing on day two. Serg, who he literally mentions for the first time in post *814*!!

To summarize all of this, his progression of reads makes no sense - he never follows through on any of his questions, on any of his interactions with people, on any of his middling scumreads or even his stronger scumreads! I can understand being disengaged town. But disengaged town still has persistent thoughts on the game. Disengaged town has an internal state of what they think the game looks like, who they think is scum, etc. Flubber's reads flicker with the breeze. He's scum who doesn't want to aggravate any townies, and so doesn't ever push on anyone; the only people he really pressured were Mulch (who he pressured to lynch which seemed likely to happen) and TIAM.

Which of course brings me to the Flub->TIAM interactions. I don't think these are really scummy but I do not read town into them, at least not to a degree that isn't fakeable. I think his sequence of posts on page 37 (starting with 908 is totally reasonable from flub-scum who was pissed off at TIAM for quickhammering. He figured TIAM was going down, and wanted to get towncred from it. He was pissed at his scumbuddy for doing something that ostensibly outed himself, but wanted to try to make the most of it, but didn't feel the need to withhold that anger inthread because it made sense to be angry or annoyed as town as well. Like iirc skitter you townread him mostly for 980 but that post comes only after a couple more pages of discussion and it's not like he's contributing anything new. I don't see why apathy doesn't make sense there as scum. It makes complete sense if he had an initial reaction as scum of being angry at what his scumbuddy did, thought that the town was going to go after TIAM instantly, and the rage faded over the course of seeing the town not do that and settled into apathy either because the game didn't go in the direction he thought it was going to or because he didn't expect to have to actually do anything during the day and expected TIAM to be quicklynched, or just like I mentioned for any of the reasons that any person can become apathetic about a thing at any point that have nothing to do with alignment.

The only way think he can be town is if he's been so disengaged with the game as to not actually have any real persistent opinions on anything. It's like he doesn't remember what his opinion on anything is when he posts except for the identity of the person he's pushing (Wossi, then Mulch, then TIAM then wavemode), which to me just reeks of scum making opinions up as they go to fit the situation. Town will normally have some degree of investment in their reads. The intellectual investment of the thoughts that went into their reads. The emotional investment of wanting to be right. Flubber shows no evidence of having the investment in his reads that would be characteristic of town.

[implosion]

I don't really read into the no-lynch thing from wave. I tend to err on the side of believing people when they say they were misinterpreted just because text-only not-real-time media are really prone to misinterpretation.

I can see this sentence:

Well then that's a 3/3 split, so no lynch

being read as either "there's a 3/3 split, so we aren't coming to a consensus and should no-lynch" or "there's a 3/3 split, which would lead to no lynch." I guess the first does make more sense at a glance but like I said, miscommunication etc.

[wavemode]

Yeah no offense to Serg since I'm sure he's busy with life but he definitely has been extremely low-activity. My post was just something I really wanted to say to him as soon as I caught him online, just in case.