Star Wars (Spoilers)

[zoraster]

JJ implying answers That let you down? Say it ain't so.

[scotmany12]

Yoda was great and had probably the best lines in the movie. Also Adam Driver is amazing and Kylo Ren is everything Anakin Skywalker should have been.

I am also seeing a lot of hate around Luke's characterization in this movie. Im about to go to bed so I don't have time to get into it but I think how he is portrayed is brilliant.

[zoraster]

Tlj kylo is wayyyyyyyy better than tfa kylo. Loved the fact he was the one who wanted his stupid mask and it wasn't anoke

[xRECKONERx]

kylo was great yeah
hamil was great when he was allowed to act

[xRECKONERx]

Think maybe people feel like the humour doesn't really work for the movie though?
Reck's point is moreso that the humour is showing up in places that messes with how you're supposed to feel during scenes. I think cumulatively that is kind of a big problem with the movie and Aero might be right that it's there specifically because of a portion of the target audience being younger.

from the other thread: basically this

yes, there was humor in the OT, but it was limited and peppered in to provide some lightheartedness. it wasn't every single character.

and in the OT we still had plenty of time for huge moments to live and breathe on their own. Obi-Wan's sacrifice, Luke's trench run, Hoth assault and rebellion defeat, Vader's big reveal, Lando's betrayal, carbonite, the final duel between Vader/Luke/Palpatine

so far the only moments from the ST i can say landed were....Rey ripping the lightsaber from Kylo in TFA, hyperspace kamikaze, Kylo/Rey teaming up....that's it

[Majiffy]

Yeah I thought we'd see more of snoke and phasma in this one

I was kinda excited for more Snoke and then Snoke happened and I'm like "okay I'm done with Snoke" so pretty glad they killed him off rather ineffectually.

[Majiffy]

so far the only moments from the ST i can say landed were....Rey ripping the lightsaber from Kylo in TFA, hyperspace kamikaze, Kylo/Rey teaming up....that's it

Both Holdo and Luke's goodbye conversations with Leia had me misty eyed so idk maybe you're just a heartless bastard

[xRECKONERx]

I feel like some of that was because Carrie Fisher fucking died and not because of the strength of the narrative

[Majiffy]

Absolutely but they didn't know she was going to die when they were shooting it. And those scenes didn't have hokey jokey lines like you posit interjected *EVERY SINGLE DRAMATIC SEQUENCE EVER OMGGGG*

Cuz tbh you're really overplaying how much the jokes cut into the dramatic sequences.

[xRECKONERx]

im really not. they were so constant it was near impossible for me to get into the dramatic parts of the movie.

[xRECKONERx]

holy shit first 3 minutes of RLM's review makes me feel vindicated

https://youtu.be/L9hwGZFPSmw

[Faraday]

I like the Finn/Po dynamic but Finn not dying felt kind of cheap given I think it'd have been a fairly decent way to go

[Ginngie]

I just don't think every little thing needs to be spelled out nor should it be in any movie. That's how you ruin shit.

It'll probs be said yeah not comparable but everyone hated how the force was labeled as the midiclorians or whatever

the mystery is fun

[Ginngie]

Okay

So this is Star Wars

lets not kid ourselves in that literally every single movie

everything goes perfectly

LITERALLY

everything

Everyone that was killed in the prequels died because lol!plot

As for the OT

Deathstar blown up first try

No one dead

luke doing badass training

Lando betrays everyone but it's okay because he's a good guy again for no real reason

Han is frozen but lol!opening scene for badassery

Death Star blown up again

Literally no one ever dies that is important except for Darth Vader and the plans always work out peachy



NOW YOU GET THE LAST JEDI

Everyone is a fucking failure
1. Entire bombing crew is dead
2. All the ships get fucked on escape
3. Tiny rebel force is getting their shit kicked in by the hilariously overpowered First Order, AND RIGHTLY SO
4. They can't get a codebreaker worth a damn
5. They hire a rat who ends up BEING A RAT
6. Their escape plan from the escape plan gets fucked as well
7. NO ONE WANTS TO HELP THE REBELS, AINT HOPE FOR SHIT
8. Finn would either die destroying the cannon while no help comes to save the rebels(since Luke wasn't real, he was just a diversion for them to escape)
9. Finn failing and the door getting blown open


So a quick recap, the rebels get bent over backwards and are barely surviving with no one giving a shit about them.

What's pissing a lot of people of is I think they're mad they don't get the escapism effects like all the other movies and we're stuck with a realist point of view.

[Ginngie]

ALSO CRAZY IDEA BUT I THINK IT WAS SNOKE WHO SAID THAT REY AND KYLO WERE EQUALS AND THEY WOULD KEEP GROWING STRONGER WITH EACH OTHER

I'M KINDA HOPEFUL THAT THESE TWO ARE ACTUALLY RELATED TO "THE ONES" THAT WE SAW IN STAR WARS THE CLONE WARS


ALSO STAR WARS THE CLONE WARS IS CONSIDERED CANON SO I CAN MAKE THIS CLAIM

[zoraster]

I like the Finn/Po dynamic but Finn not dying felt kind of cheap given I think it'd have been a fairly decent way to go

Finn shouldn't have died, but he also shouldn't have been put into a position like this because you're right. At the point at which he was making that suicide run he should have died. OR alternatively at least Rose Tico should have sacrificed herself. She could have come out of nowhere just like she did in this one, but rather than doing so pointlessly she could have been the one to take it out.

[Cheetory6]

If the movie had been set up in a different way, Finn dying at that point could have been a satisfying resolution to his character/arc.
But he wasn't central enough of a character in the movie for it to have had proper weight/felt meaningful.

[scotmany12]

I like the Finn/Po dynamic but Finn not dying felt kind of cheap given I think it'd have been a fairly decent way to go

Finn shouldn't have died, but he also shouldn't have been put into a position like this because you're right. At the point at which he was making that suicide run he should have died. OR alternatively at least Rose Tico should have sacrificed herself. She could have come out of nowhere just like she did in this one, but rather than doing so pointlessly she could have been the one to take it out.

I am going to give more thoughts in a bit (still really like the movie) but I'm surprised this is such a common thought. I thought it was obviously that Finns ship thing was falling apart and that he was never going to be able to stop the laser. That he would just be killing himself (this isn't Independence Day).

[zoraster]

I don't think that's the way it was shot. He is clearly resigning himself to die for a cause.

[scotmany12]

Yeah Finn is but everyone else knows it won't work. It's why Poe calls everyone back, there was no stopping the drill at that point.

[scotmany12]

Like his speeder thing was clearly falling apart. It's shot where you should know it wouldn't work.

[zoraster]

I didn't get that impression from watching it, but I suppose it's possible.

[scotmany12]

Also I am going back and forth and whether or not Finn thought it would work or if he was just running away by needlessly sacrificing himself. Finns development here is definitely the thing I'm least sure about (John Boyega is great though).

[zoraster]

I assume he thought so. It also makes the character arc: running from a doomed ship to sacrificing himself for the cause.

[scotmany12]

Okay, some quick thoughts during my break.

The Good

-Kylo Ren
-Overall, the acting was pretty good
-Rey's interactions with Kylo, and both their development
-That the rebellion basically fails. At almost everything they do. And the Finn/Poe/Rose plan is ultimate what cause the downfall (without them trying to turn of the tracker, the escape pods make it to the base unnoticed)
-The dissent among the rebels. It's part of the reason why I liked rogue 1, and I liked it here. It works with Poe's character development. How he went from continuing an attack that cost a lot of lives in the beginning (that ultimately accomplished very little) to pulling back in the attack on the drill. Also, Holdo doesn't have to tell Poe anything, she's the commanding officer, not him.
-Kylo Ren
-"We are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters." "Failure is the most courageous teacher." Thanks Yoda. You were great.
-The action scenes, especially the throne room fight (thank god the royal guard dudes actually put up a fight) and the hyperspace battering ram
-Kylo Ren
-Luke's character arc. I see a lot of hate of the idea that Luke had a moment of darkness where he considered killing Ben. That works with who Luke is. Even in RotJ, he has a moment where he considers killing Vader. And people forget that Luke only had, at most, a year of training with Yoda. There is no inclination that he might be a good master. He failed at being a master, and I like that. His growth to saving the others works, and I'm fine with him passing onto the force.
-Rey's parents being nobodies is good.
-I like how Hux is basically a cartoon villain.
-Seriously, Kyle Ren. Adam Driver is amazing.

Unsure

-Finn. I'm going back and forth on just how much he developed. And I don't know if either way if it is a bad thing. I loved when he called himself rebel scum though

The Bad

-The chase between the ships stuff. It just came off as a poorly done imitation of Battlestar Galactica.
-The execution of Canto Bright. I like that they showed basically rich people in the galaxy, who aren't necessary aligned to either the first order or the rebellion. I just don't think it was done very well. Tried to do too much with the kids and the war profiteering and everything.
-Rose. I truthfully just didn't think the actress was great. It's the one performance I thought was done poorly (except for maybe snoke). I understand the point of the character, just didn't think it was executed well. Also don't really see any chemistry between her and Finn. That felt forced.
-Some humor does fall flat, though I think the only time it really does truly take away from the gravitas is after Finn defeats Phasma.
-The very ending with the kid and the force grabbing the broom. Don't care about some kid. I also don't think it works as the ending to part 2 of a trilogy.

Probably more rambling in there than I meant to be, and I'm still going back and forth on some stuff. But I thought it was a great film. I need to see it more to decide if its better than TFA but that won't happen for a while. I don't plan on spending money to see it in theaters again.