Star Wars (Spoilers)

[scotmany12]

Oh, also. Leia force thing. Just badly done and didn't need it. Find another way for her to survive. Totally fine with Ackbar having basically one line before dying. Get over it people. He barely had any part in the OT to begin with.

[zoraster]

I also thought of it as a sort of "33 minutes" from BSG. That said, there are worse things to be like than that.

[TwoInAMillion]

My only complaint is that things seem to be moving slower and don't have the same epic feel as the classic and prequel trilogies.

[zoraster]

i'd argue that the attempt at "epic scale" was one of the critical problems with the prequels, much like Marvel movies. It leads to faceless, characterless battles and what not.

[hiplop]

Rose Tico being rewarded in the movie for her psychotic choice to murder the resistance is something I couldn't suspend disbelief for. She is one deux ex machina away from killing thousands of people.

I think the scene should have; not happened, or Finn gets extremely pissed and screams at her for killing the resistance

[Cheetory6]

Yeah, her doing that kind of ruins the entire point of the arc? Like, it starts off with Rose chastising Finn for wanting to abandon the rebels to go help someone he cares about, and then ends with Rose stopping Finn from saving the rebels because she cares about him?
Kind of bonkers.
Not sure how that made it into the final draft of the script.

[TwoInAMillion]

i'd argue that the attempt at "epic scale" was one of the critical problems with the prequels, much like Marvel movies. It leads to faceless, characterless battles and what not.

Well, it is space opera.

[scotmany12]

Yeah, her doing that kind of ruins the entire point of the arc? Like, it starts off with Rose chastising Finn for wanting to abandon the rebels to go help someone he cares about, and then ends with Rose stopping Finn from saving the rebels because she cares about him?
Kind of bonkers.
Not sure how that made it into the final draft of the script.

Because Finn wasn't going to save the rebels (whether or not he thought he was)..all he was going to do was kill himself.

[Cheetory6]

But then what's the point of his arc? Like, be a hero, but don't be a hero for no reason? It's not really clear what we're supposed to take away from it. The message is really murky, which is why you get to the end of the arc and feel like it was pointless. Where does Finn stand at the end of all of this? I have no idea. He just seems confused.

[TwoInAMillion]

But then what's the point of his arc? Like, be a hero, but don't be a hero for no reason? It's not really clear what we're supposed to take away from it. The message is really murky, which is why you get to the end of the arc and feel like it was pointless. Where does Finn stand at the end of all of this? I have no idea. He just seems confused.

Finn is a much weaker character than Rey imho. He had potential in TFA but didn't really mature in TLJ like he should have.

[scotmany12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the cannon fire right after rose knocks Finn out of the way? And Finn still had a decent distant to go in his speeder that was getting torn apart? He was never going to make it to the drill.

[Cheetory6]

Yeah I'm not arguing that.
I'm saying what was the point of anything that happened in the movie if the culmination of Finn's arc has nothing to do with what they set it up as? What does Rose stopping Finn from killing himself have anything to do with him being a coward? You can probably stretch to think of one, but the stretching means that it's not a clear and obvious arc.

[scotmany12]

Basically, Finn is becoming like Poe (he's learning to fight for a cause, not just who he cares for), while Poes arc is him learning to be a leader.

I can go more into on my lunch break.

[hiplop]

Finn was directly beside the cannon in the shot. And it's made to look like a last minute prevention. If you pull out a ruler and protractor it may not work like that but the film was clearly indicating it was preventing the suicide mission

[scotmany12]

So, there are very clear parallels between Poe's opening attack on the dreadnaught (where he loses basically half the fleet) and Finn's "sacrifice." Poe is told to pull back by Leia. He decides against it, even turning off his comm. It results in many lives dead all for a victory that turns out to mean nothing. We are made to view it as a failure. Leia demotes him, and tells him there were no leaders out there.

Jump to Finn. Poe tells everyone to fall back, realizing they can't reach the drill in time (also not that they do not know reinforcements are not yet coming). Finn does the same thing Poe does, turning off his comm and pushing forward. Plus the way it is shot just points to it resulting in failure. The drill is already heating up, it's tearing Finns speeder apart. Why do people think it would have stopped the drill? The final shot would have just obliterated him and still took out the door. Maybe it could have been done better, but I think the intent was definitely to show that Finn would not have been successful.

Also, Yoda basically spells out one of the main themes of the movie, failure. Finn wasn't going to succeed in stopping the drill, and everyone but him knew it. Hence Rose saving him.

[Cheetory6]

I feel like we're not even talking about the same thing.

[scotmany12]

That was more towards Hiplop.

Finn's arc is about him finding something to fight for other than Rey and Poe. In the beginning of the film, he doesn't really care about the Rebel's cause. He cares for Rey, hence trying to run away. At the end, he truly views himself as a rebel and is willing to die for it, even though his plan was foolish and would have been futile. He becomes Poe.

[hiplop]

rose saved him by charging into him full speed in front of a heating up laser and it was treated as a fine and rational decision

[scotmany12]

rose saved him by charging into him full speed in front of a heating up laser and it was treated as a fine and rational decision

By who? The only one who even addresses it is Finn who yells at her. All the other speeders have already turned back.

[hiplop]

they kiss and have a tender moment and its never mentioned again

[scotmany12]

Well Rose kisses Finn who acts kinda shocked then Rose passes out, with the next time we see both of them Finn asking for a medic for her. Not sure how that points to anyone saying her decision was rational. She was trying to save a friend from basically killing himself. That's all there is to it.

[hiplop]

Yea you didnt watch the same movie as the rest of us lol

Finn is presented to stop the laser
Laser heating up. Laser will kill thousands or whatever in the hut.
Finn decides to sacrifice himself for laser, speeds ahead
Rose catches up(somehow?), pushes him out of the laser fire-range by crashing into him. From her POV shes literally killing thousands of people for finns life.
They kiss, and from then on finn cares about her safety and wellbeing and thats the end of their story.

It was presented rationally

[scotmany12]

No cause Rose knows Finn won't stop the laser. That's the whole point...

[hiplop]

that idea only exists in your brain and isnt presented at all and is also a terrible narrative choice most importantly

[xRECKONERx]

What's pissing a lot of people of is I think they're mad they don't get the escapism effects like all the other movies and we're stuck with a realist point of view.

this seems uhhhh wrong