Open 706: C9++

[Chip Butty]

@Schism:

187: I said it is typical for him, ie NAI.

188: It's not the placement, it's the inconsistency in placement.

[Almost Chara]

I want to explain something about how I'm playing this role. IMHO, the best way to use the IC role is not to post much so as not to heavily influence the game (since "some" players will tend to sheep a confirmed townie).

Instead; I think it's best to be the "organizer" of night action. For example, if I say "Cop should be on Chip" then a Cop should do that. If we don't have a guilty on Chip tomorrow we simply assume there's a clear on the slot w/o the need for a Cop claim (the alternative is we still push Chip until said Cop has to claim to save a townie OR stay put and let the mislynch go through, neither of which is a good option). If I say "RB on X" then RB -if existent- should comply, so we know X didn't act on that night without a claim, and so on.

Other than that I think I'm better off watching from a distance and only speaking when I do have something to say (and I did, but it seems nobody's listening, so I'll say it again..)

More votes on schism, please

P.S. Please, don't tell me you

could

vote schism

but

.. if you could then you should. Only if you don't want to lynch schism should you abstain. Thank you.

~A50

[Elmo TeH AzN]

In Regards to “Confidence:

” Id argue that hesitence on reads isnt good if you dont have a reason.

This sounds backwards somehow. Can you restate that in terms of what's good?

Please explain my head hurt from this one.

@Schism what I'm getting at is that it at most should be NAI. Right now your confusing me with this.

[Voyc]

I was already thinking of voting Schism, so I'm ok with this.
UNVOTE: Sleepless Assassin
VOTE: Schism

Also notice how everyone who has posted a list is roughly the same?

Do you agree with the lists? Are there any changes you would make to them?

My opinion of Joda dropped a little while I was writing up #172, because if you think Fitz/Joda was TvS, you should be looking at Joda first.

Why should we be looking at Jodax first?
Also how confident are you that Assemble will flip scum?

[Sleepless Assassin]

I think Sleepless Assassin had the worst reaction. His post of "have you never been scum or am I missing a game?" kind of implies that he knows I'm not scum in this game. I also don't like how someone scum read him for being a try hard, he responded with "yeah I get that a lot," and then proceeded to disappear, only saying anything when he was asked a question directly.

You're making some interesting assumptions about me. First, you're assuming that my question was in response to ONLY your self vote. It was actually your entrance (saying "hello" with no vote) that made me curious enough to check how you entered past games. The self vote just made me more curious about your experience level. I also never implied anything about your alignment in this game in that question. I was discussing past games. You're also making assumptions about my reasons for falling behind. You seem to assume that it's somehow strategic. If it was, that would be my first time doing that in nearly a decade of playing mafia. I've never once seen anyone benefit from intentionally dropping their activity. My reasons for not being around as much are simple: work. I had to work on Tuesday and Wednesday. I've been off every day that this thread has been open other than that. That is the main thing that determines my activity level.

I don't like havingfitz's reaction either. The reasoning behind the self vote and then the bs reason (yes I know I can't flip a coin to randomize 13 players and yes I know a coin cannot come up odds) is to see if anyone will try to push for the easy lynch of someone who did something that obviously stood out. The fact that Fitz tried to rationalize a scum motivation for it (avoiding offending anyone) and is still trying to get some traction on it looks scummy.

See, this kind of stood out to me too. I'm just on the fence whether his motivations for it are scummy. Like what is the logic? Do you think he expected to get you lynched for self voting in RVS? I'm just not sure that that makes more sense than jumping on a wagon to make the game take off or that he actually believed what he said about it.

The reason I was all up in arms about your self vote is because of what I know about this site's meta about self voting. No matter the stage.

Can you elaborate on this? Why should the site's meta affect the way that you personally react to something? It sounds more to me like you are pushing something you know other people will find scummy as opposed to looking for what you believe scum might do and if that's the case it's pretty clear cut fake scum hunting.

Assassin 195: that fact that you said its not an RVS vote is bad. Really bad.

Nope.

Also if six pages was too much to talk about, why bother making a post to catchup soon. Its not like youre lurking.

Because some mods prod and replace if you don't so I got into that habit a while back.

________________

Almost Chara, what would you think about a cop looking into havingfitz? He's kind of hard to get a good read on because some of what he says is rough around the edges (see the whole thing about his confidence in Jod's alignment) but not necessarily scum motivated and not at all in the sense that he seems town for not caring what people think of him. I think knowing his alignment could really benefit us. He gives quite a bit of insight so it makes him an asset if we can confirm him as town (granted there is the possibility of a GF, but maybe we can rule that out later on) and obviously if we can confirm him as scum that would be even better.

P.S. Please, don't tell me you could vote schism but.. if you could then you should. Only if you don't want to lynch schism should you abstain. Thank you.

I prefer Elmo and Chip to be perfectly honest.

[Almost Chara]

@Sleepless Assassin:

1- You may treat Fitz as a townie until further notice.
2- Between Elmo and Chip I'd vote the latter, but I'm not confident enough in my SR on that slot. That's why I want it checked.

~A50

[Sleepless Assassin]

But I don't town read him...

[Jodaxq]

@Sleepless, you did quote my self-vote so it seemed logical that your comment would be mostly a reflection of that. I have entered all my games the exact same way. I'm not that experienced; I've only played six games outside of this forum.
I agree with your comment on Elmo. Why does the site meta have anything to do with anything in this spot?

[Jodaxq]

In Regards to “Confidence:

” Id argue that hesitence on reads isnt good if you dont have a reason.

This sounds backwards somehow. Can you restate that in terms of what's good?

I believe his statement is "I'd argue that hesitancy on reads is not good if you do not have a reason to be hesitant." Or, flipped around, "Confidence on reads is good if you have reason to be confident."

[Chip Butty]

I welcome being checked. I haven't been able to devote much attention to this game, but hope to over the next 24-36 hours.

[Chip Butty]

A50, I'm a bit confused. You say you don't want people to sheep you, but then ask them to vote Schism?

[Almost Chara]

A50, I'm a bit confused. You say you don't want people to sheep you, but then ask them to vote Schism?

I don't want them to sheep me on my uncertain slots, but when I have a strong SR on a slot then of course I want to be sheeped there.

Also thanks for softing GF

~A50

[Schism]

Since the Hydra wants nothing to do with me since Im such obvious scum, will someone please ask them their thoughts on Assemble and Assassin please? I hate being ignored.

188: It's not the placement, it's the inconsistency in placement.

With the exception of North because Im stupid, my reads have been consistent. Chara just scumreads you alot more than I do. I don't want to see you lynched today and possibly not tomorrow either because Elmo/Assassin/Assemble are bigger suspects to me and I believe there hasn't been any pressure on Elmo/Assemble.

IMHO, the best way to use the IC role is not to post much so as not to heavily influence the game (since "some" players will tend to sheep a confirmed townie).

More votes on schism, please

In regards to IC dictating the PRs and Cop Gameplay in General:

What the fuck? I disagree that the IC should have complete say in who the cop targets, since our reads may be different. This is dumb if you ask me and I think you should let the PRs play their way unless you know them to VI or they ask for suggestions.

Also we dont know if there are even cops in this game, why is this even a topic of discussion?

Why should we be looking at Jodax first?
Also how confident are you that Assemble will flip scum?

Because Im pretty sure that Fitz is town if you want to argue with me that Joda vs Fitz was TownvScum. I still think it to be a TvT argument.

Assassin:

ok, since your vote on Elmo and your FoS on NSG are legitimate for them voting the IC in RVS, youre literally saying you scumread Elmo and Possibly NSG because of a Joke Vote. Now before someone comes and says "Well Schism, aren't you doing the same thing?" Well 1) I find NSG to be town for doing it first and 2) He thinks voting the IC was scummy while I think that copying what someone did first is more suspicious. I don't like your reasoning and it seems weak. Do you Townread Assemble for following your logic?

Also thanks for softing GF

In regards to consistency, confidence, and other happenings:

Since when did being sure of your reads become a scumtell. "I'm pretty sure Fitz is town" does not mean "I am scum and I am aware of the current Gamestate." Damn. As for what I said earlier, I think someone who is more certain of someone flipping a certain alignment is better than someone who flips their reads a couple posts later with no reasoning. The former is NAI, the Later is Scum or Bad Town.

[Schism]

@Mod: Can we Prod Assemble for sure and possibly Tone and Cy?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

After this post by Schism. I don't see how they're not town. Christ Im glad Im not the only one who saw the hydra say the things they said

[Sleepless Assassin]

Schism, not everything is black and white. I start my games looking for the smallest thing that stands out to me and then I poke and prod around it to see what I can figure out. Call it a pressure vote if you want but I feel it's a better way to start the game than voting over a funny avatar or username. It's not like if I was a day I I'd shoot Elmo and North for voting the IC on page 1 but it was easily the best lead at the time that I voted. As far as assemble, no I don't town read him for that vote.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Auto correct changed dayvig to day in the above post by the way.

[cytheflyguy]

I'm getting over a case of the flu. I should be able to post tomorrow, but I don't trust myself today.

[Almost Chara]

Post #212 is a scum claim on so many levels. Indeed, "why is this even a topic of discussion?". You don't have a say on how I play any given role in any given setup. I do as I please and you either put up or shut up. You're being ignored because even a scumster you are full of it.

@Others who may want to exclaim: A Cop doing their ow thing on N1 and receiving a clear then dying on N2 gives us absolutely no info.
In order for said Cop to out the inno they got they'd have to post a read list and place their target on the top, which would beg for a lot of questions because that target won't be us for certain. "Why is X so high on your read list?" .. "Um.. erm.. because I hard TR them", and the Cop is outed to Scum.

Another possibility is they do NOT post a read list but their inno is being wagoned and they need to intervene to stop the mislynch. Again, the Cop is outed.

OR the Cop doesn't post a read list and the inno doesn't get wagoned on that day and the Cop goes to sleep for eternity the next night taking their result to grave with them.

The fact that THIS irritates our schizophrenic friend makes me even more certain this is scum.

Now someone may argue Schism maybe a Cop himself (or maybe think it to themselves without saying it in the open). Well, that would be the most stupid Cop I have ever come across since I started playing Mafia. Cops do NOT hand free TRs right and left on D1. Cops are suspicious of everyone BUT they do not lead wagons on D1. They don't make hard pushes on D1. And while I still think his attitude sucks I don't think he's that dumb, so NO. This is NOT a Cop.

And since I know what pisses you I'm going to ignore you for the rest of the game as payback for pissing ME off.

VOTE SCHISM if you know what you're doing

, and we he

does

flip Mafia lynch joda next, regardless of whether we are still alive to push it. Their 3rd is up in the air still, but gun to my head I'd say Chip or Elmo.

P.S. I never told the PT

s

what to do. I only told

the Cop

whom to check so we know the result w.o. the Cop outing themselves directly or indirectly. I never addressed Vigs, Drs or RBs.

~A50

[Schism]

Holy shit. Triggered Much?

I spent 10 minutes coming up with a post debating Cop Theory and I decided to sum up my response with this. There are too many variables to deal with to force the cop to go wherever the IC wants him/her/it to go because she can't do reads themself. I don't give a shit how you play the IC role, but it is not your job to force the cop go where you want. (I also just remembered theres the possibility mafia could kill the person IC wants to investigate and waste a fucking Investigation).

The fact that THIS irritates our schizophrenic friend makes me even more certain this is scum.

Rude. Also I thought your job as IC was to stick to the shadows and let the game play out, not push your reads on people because it causes sheeping.

VOTE SCHISM if you know what you're doing, and we he does flip Mafia lynch joda next, regardless of whether we are still alive to push it. Their 3rd is up in the air still, but gun to my head I'd say Chip or Elmo.

I. Guess. Not.

P.S. I never told the PTs what to do. I only told the Cop whom to check so we know the result w.o. the Cop outing themselves directly or indirectly.

...... HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE RESULT WITHOUT THE COP OUTTING THE RESULT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY (indirectly means Soft). Just let the fucking cop be the fucking cop.

I never addressed Vigs, Drs or RBs.

Well why not!? As our supreme leader you should have prepared a plan in case we have Vigs, Drs (What?), or RBs. I can not believe you haven't thought about the PRs. WHY ARE YOU SO BIASED TOWARDS THE COPS.

Seriously, Fuck Off and play the game, stop speculating PRs and build on your readlist besides "SCHISM IS MAF JODA AND/OR CHIP IS MAF WITH HIM"

---------------------------

WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THERE IS A FUCKING COP IN THIS GAME.

Hydra also read my "scumclaim" in #212 and forgot the most important part:

Since the Hydra wants nothing to do with me since Im such obvious scum, will someone please ask them their thoughts on Assemble and Assassin please? I hate being ignored

[Schism]

After this post by Schism. I don't see how they're not town. Christ Im glad Im not the only one who saw the hydra say the things they said

Calling someone out on their bullshit isn't alignment indicative IMO. I think Voyc's vote was town enough, shes(?) been suspecting me for awhile now so it seems legit, so Id like to say Mafia hasn't hopped on yet, meaning Chara lacks the command that she think she deserves as

GOD

IC.

Schism, not everything is black and white. I start my games looking for the smallest thing that stands out to me and then I poke and prod around it to see what I can figure out. Call it a pressure vote if you want but I feel it's a better way to start the game than voting over a funny avatar or username. It's not like if I was a day I I'd shoot Elmo and North for voting the IC on page 1 but it was easily the best lead at the time that I voted. As far as assemble, no I don't town read him for that vote.

What is your current read on North and Elmo? Whos the bigger scumread between them and Chip?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Schism, I'm actually townreading North right now. Elmo is still my strongest scum read. Chip is second.

[Assemblerotws]

Just caught up. Surprised I wasn't prodded given how much I let this game slip.

I slightly townread Jo for their reaction test and agree with the IC's reads on Schism. I am also curious why people haven't unvoted the IC.

[Schism]

Just caught up. Surprised I wasn't prodded given how much I let this game slip.

I slightly townread Jo for their reaction test and agree with the IC's reads on Schism. I am also curious why people haven't unvoted the IC.

Thats all you have to say?

Nothing on Fitz? Assassin? Really?

Also, if you agree with the IC, vote me instead of North.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Just caught up. Surprised I wasn't prodded given how much I let this game slip.

I slightly townread Jo for their reaction test and agree with the IC's reads on Schism. I am also curious why people haven't unvoted the IC.

Uhhh. They did unvote.