Micro 767: Spyro the Dragon Mafia - Game Over
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Wisdom Of the One
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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Last edited by Not_Mafia on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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In all your time you've never seen a D1 mass claim benefit town? Really?In post 125, Wisdom wrote:i don't, and i find mass claim d1 stupid in any game
The most prominent pro-argument is that scum are locked into claims early on. It restricts their ability to make convincing claims both early on and allows town to uncover their thought process after a few cycles where their decision making makes no sense.Occasionally intellectually honest
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garaputo Goon
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northsidegal Survivor
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alright, here's where i'm at so far. earlier, i talked about townreading half of the playerlist, but this is kind of a cop-out, considering that among those townreads are myself and the innocent child. however, this isn't an entirely pointless conclusion: given that this is a nightless game, process of elimination is all you need to win the game. it also means (at least, in a conventional, vanilla nightless game) that scum can't do anything to get rid of voices that they don't want heard, so in that respect i've failed so far in terms of towning.
i think the main strategy is popcorn – you start off with one person claiming, and that person decides who the next person is, and so on. i'm not actually sure how a refusal to participate is met, but i'd imagine it would be with votes.garaputo wrote:Could someone who is arguing for the mass claim provide 1) logistics for how it happens, and 2) what the proposal is to handle refusals?
I think it's best to know the details of the plan before starting in.-
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BuJaber Mafia Scum
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garaputo Goon
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.In post 131, garaputo wrote:I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Wisdom Of the One
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garaputo Goon
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Get the votes and do it then. I'd rather play mafia than whatever this claim or no claim thing is.In post 132, Kublai Khan wrote:
If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.In post 131, garaputo wrote:I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.
If you can convince everyone I'm scum because I don't want to go through with this bad plan, guess what, a game of actual mafia broke out!-
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Wisdom Of the One
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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I can be convinced to not go with the mass claim plan if you have a good argument. "It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.In post 134, garaputo wrote:
Get the votes and do it then. I'd rather play mafia than whatever this claim or no claim thing is.In post 132, Kublai Khan wrote:
If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.In post 131, garaputo wrote:I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.
If you can convince everyone I'm scum because I don't want to go through with this bad plan, guess what, a game of actual mafia broke out!
You're halting the game by dodging/ignoring my questions. Convince me that mass claim is a bad idea.In post 135, Wisdom wrote:garaputo is right; all youve managed to do is halt the game and let scum hide in "lets claim" posts
Also, are you clearing garaputo? Why would scum be in the "lets claim" posts and not on the "lets not claim" side? Wouldn't scum likely be one on each side of this argument?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Wisdom Of the One
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ive played in like 150 games and none of them did itIn post 136, Kublai Khan wrote:"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.
the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.-
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.In post 137, Wisdom wrote:
ive played in like 150 games and none of them did itIn post 136, Kublai Khan wrote:"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.
the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.
I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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Also, this game is nightless, which means no night-kills. So if everything is on the table, we can 1) work out a plan and 2) trap scum into claims they may regret.
Convince me of a reason not to mass claim that don't include the words "stupid" or "bad". I'm not trying to steamroll the game. You feel strongly about your position so convince me I'm wrong.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Alisaes French Maid Goon
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Alisaes French Maid Goon
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garaputo Goon
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I don't have to convince you to cooperate, I can just go on playing mafia as if your plan is noise and get what I want. I don't have to have a reason (although I've actually stated one you've ignored) as what I'm advocating for is the default state here. You should consider that your plan will be at least partially unsuccessful should you continue advocating for it. I'm just giving you advance notice that should you continue down this path, when it comes time for me to claim, you'll have to deal with the fact that I won't.In post 136, Kublai Khan wrote:
I can be convinced to not go with the mass claim plan if you have a good argument. "It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.In post 134, garaputo wrote:
Get the votes and do it then. I'd rather play mafia than whatever this claim or no claim thing is.In post 132, Kublai Khan wrote:
If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.In post 131, garaputo wrote:I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.
If you can convince everyone I'm scum because I don't want to go through with this bad plan, guess what, a game of actual mafia broke out!
I can tell you there's at least one town on the let's not claim side.In post 136, Kublai Khan wrote:
You're halting the game by dodging/ignoring my questions. Convince me that mass claim is a bad idea.In post 135, Wisdom wrote:garaputo is right; all youve managed to do is halt the game and let scum hide in "lets claim" posts
Also, are you clearing garaputo? Why would scum be in the "lets claim" posts and not on the "lets not claim" side? Wouldn't scum likely be one on each side of this argument?-
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garaputo Goon
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This logic is flawed.In post 138, Kublai Khan wrote:
It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.In post 137, Wisdom wrote:
ive played in like 150 games and none of them did itIn post 136, Kublai Khan wrote:"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.
the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.
I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?
1) From a neutral point of view, it's not clear why you or UCV are town, let alone that you are not vanilla.
Just because the game is nightless, it does not follow that vomiting all the role information into the thread won't hurt the town.In post 139, Kublai Khan wrote:Also, this game is nightless, which means no night-kills. So if everything is on the table, we can 1) work out a plan and 2) trap scum into claims they may regret.
Convince me of a reason not to mass claim that don't include the words "stupid" or "bad". I'm not trying to steamroll the game. You feel strongly about your position so convince me I'm wrong.-
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garaputo Goon
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I said in post 118In post 139, Kublai Khan wrote:Also, this game is nightless, which means no night-kills. So if everything is on the table, we can 1) work out a plan and 2) trap scum into claims they may regret.
Convince me of a reason not to mass claim that don't include the words "stupid" or "bad". I'm not trying to steamroll the game. You feel strongly about your position so convince me I'm wrong.
What have you said that acknowledges or contradicts this?the claim will likely allow the scum to zero in on the right folks to kill.
It's like you want to have an argument but don't want to bother reading what other people are saying.-
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Wisdom Of the One
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This; usually games that are nightless have some other mechanic in place; we know nothing about the setup right nowIn post 143, garaputo wrote:Just because the game is nightless, it does not follow that vomiting all the role information into the thread won't hurt the town.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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In post 143, garaputo wrote:
This logic is flawed.In post 138, Kublai Khan wrote:
It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.In post 137, Wisdom wrote:
ive played in like 150 games and none of them did itIn post 136, Kublai Khan wrote:"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.
the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.
I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?
1) From a neutral point of view, it's not clear why you or UCV are town, let alone that you are not vanilla.
I mean. From a neutral point of view he's a mod confirmed desperado IC.-
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garaputo Goon
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Derp on me for forgetting that Desperado IC part, but the lotic applies still to the collective form of "you" there.In post 146, Radical Rat wrote:In post 143, garaputo wrote:
This logic is flawed.In post 138, Kublai Khan wrote:
It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.In post 137, Wisdom wrote:
ive played in like 150 games and none of them did itIn post 136, Kublai Khan wrote:"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.
the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.
I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?
1) From a neutral point of view, it's not clear why you or UCV are town, let alone that you are not vanilla.
I mean. From a neutral point of view he's a mod confirmed desperado IC.-
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garaputo
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Well, the idea is that by claiming now, scum doesn't get a chance to lie later. We can't find scum immediately based on a claim, but if they get caught claiming or performing an action that contradicts this one, that's a pretty good indicator we wouldn't have without a massclaim.
And the telling scum who to kill argument is only valid if scum actually does have a way to kill people, which we have no reason to assume yet. But even if they do, Khan and Voyager have already claimed, so we're very likely to lose a PR either way.
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