Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[Chip Butty]

@LUV: I'm only being hostile to Mutant, and it's because his post style in this game annoys the fuck out of me.

[Chip Butty]

I was way more hostile to a certain player in mn 1946. We were both town.

[Viomi]

Although I don't like Chip, who is mostly posting stupid comments which have an uncanny mix of being both evading and confrontational, I don't think that he's as scummy as CommKnight, scumbuddyish as Creature, or as active lurkish as Lalendra (now Uzi).

Comparing Lalendra to Chip, Lalendra had a far more clear pattern of actively lurking and granting absolutely no information whatsoever. Chip also has a pattern of avoiding giving information, but does so in a confrontational manner. I don't like his confrontational manner, but I don't see what mafia has to gain by insulting instead of answering questions when at L-2. On the other hand, this is not the kind of behaviour I feel like we should let Chip get away with.

It looks like we won't be getting CommKnight lynched today. As such, I may as well UNVOTE: CommKnight. On a side note, it's been four and a half days since CommKnight's last post.

@Mod:

prod please?

As for Uzi, the replacement for Lalendra, it looks like he may have started to contribute by now. That does not change the issue of whether Lalendra's blatant active lurking was motivated by scum, but it does make me no longer consider him a lurker. It does feel a bit mean to lynch him over the actions of his previous incarnation which he can't do anything about.

That said, mafia is about who is scum and not about what is mean. Between Chip and Lalendra, I think that Lalendra's lurking is more indicative of being scum than Chip is. Moreover, with scumking CommKnight having pushed hard for the Chip wagon, I'm kind of sceptical of it. Thus, for now, I'll compromise VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert.

Lurking isn’t alignment indicative but I’m going to partly put to that the side for a bit. Why is dealing with situations in an aggressive way more likely to come from town than scum? I think it would be more helpful if you explored why Chip’s behavior is argumentative or hostile and determine if said behavior is genuine and what motivation behind it if any.

Lurking is 10000% alignment indicative.

[Viomi]

@Chip: Did you not read the post where I replied to Lalendra's entire ISO? Her entrance is literally her only good post. You attempting to bring that up as if she wasn't super scum the whole time is sus.

[Chip Butty]

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Asking questions again. States clear position on lynching Mutant or Pisscop. Suspicious of Creature. I don't have problems with any of that. Sure, it's not hugely original, but that's NAI for L.

[Chip Butty]

@Chip: Did you not read the post where I replied to Lalendra's entire ISO? Her entrance is literally her only good post. You attempting to bring that up as if she wasn't super scum the whole time is sus.

I'm going through her ISO to make my own assessment, since she has attracted a wagon.

[Chip Butty]

@Viomi: lurking isn't AI, because RL.

[Viomi]

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Asking questions again. States clear position on lynching Mutant or Pisscop. Suspicious of Creature. I don't have problems with any of that. Sure, it's not hugely original, but that's NAI for L.

First post has no questions, in fact is entirely fluff.

Second post has no questions, just says she'd be willing to lynch either of them and criticizes Aster for jumping over when.. she jumps between the two as well.

Your "assessment" is already blatantly biased and incorrect, trying to make her look more town. Why is this?

[Viomi]

@Viomi: lurking isn't AI, because RL.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lurking

[Chip Butty]

Like, I'm hella busy, but I'm making an effort in this game right now because we have a deadline approaching. But I need to get back to RL real soon.

[Viomi]

And it's not just about her not posting very much, it's about the few posts that she uses to dodge prods being completely fluff. More akin to:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

[Viomi]

Which is very different from you attempting to participate in the game and whatnot while you're here.

[Viomi]

Can we not compromise Lynch? Lalendra's slot is scum

Many of us disagree. I'd also like to see more from LUV before we lynch that slot.

You just said you agreed with me. What changed about Lalendra's slot to make you disagree?

@mutant: Can you answer this?

[Chip Butty]

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Asking questions again. States clear position on lynching Mutant or Pisscop. Suspicious of Creature. I don't have problems with any of that. Sure, it's not hugely original, but that's NAI for L.

First post has no questions, in fact is entirely fluff.

Second post has no questions, just says she'd be willing to lynch either of them and criticizes Aster for jumping over when.. she jumps between the two as well.

Your "assessment" is already blatantly biased and incorrect, trying to make her look more town. Why is this?

That's total BS. In that first post, L pokes repeatedly at Mutant, makes pointed comments about Creature and Wilky, and asks a question at the end. It's virtually fluff free.

[CityElectric]

Now Creature has jumped on this bw as well. Can't people see how scummy he is being? If we can't get CK today (why, oh why?), I can compromise with a Creature lynch.

Come join me on the wagon it's got some nice spaces left.

Personally, I'm not super down with a LUV lynch, largely because they just replaced into a slot I didn't have the strongest of reads on either way.

Then again, I haven't been super paying attention to the thread the past few days. Will take some time tomorrow to read more closely.

[Viomi]

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Asking questions again. States clear position on lynching Mutant or Pisscop. Suspicious of Creature. I don't have problems with any of that. Sure, it's not hugely original, but that's NAI for L.

First post has no questions, in fact is entirely fluff.

Second post has no questions, just says she'd be willing to lynch either of them and criticizes Aster for jumping over when.. she jumps between the two as well.

Your "assessment" is already blatantly biased and incorrect, trying to make her look more town. Why is this?

That's total BS. In that first post, L pokes repeatedly at Mutant, makes pointed comments about Creature and Wilky, and asks a question at the end. It's virtually fluff free.

Where's their question? There's not a single question mark in there.

The first post isn't even AI pokes, and she's not poking at mutant, she's poking at creature. "poking" as in just saying she thinks it's funny that he keeps treating mutant like a new player when mutant claims not to be.

It's 100% fluff.

[Chip Butty]

Anyway, I wanna progress my ISO. I have about 10 more minutes...

@CE: Definitely willing if it looks doable. No way can Creature go into LYLO/MYLO. Worried about the deadline approaching though. And my first choice is still CK.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Part of the reason why PK was lynched was because he was considered an active lurker. Look how that turned out.

Some players just prefer to hang back and observe. Some don’t have enough confidence in themselves to push certain angles or their reads so they don’t try to play town leader. Sometimes they’re in other games that are more interesting or pressing. Sometimes they’re just busy.

[Chip Butty]

Well, it seems like this game is going to be progressing at a good clip. Hi all, back from Thanksgiving shenanigans and ready to dive in.

Curious is how quickly you backtrack on asking for a roleclaim. Northside

hadn't even said a word

and you already felt like you needed to defend yourself with "no, I totally wasn't asking for roleclaims!". It gives the impression that

you knew

that you just committed a scum action.

---

There is one more curious thing about asking for roles: suppose Tex would claim her role. We, as townies, wouldn't have a clue whether her role was town or not. The mafia, however, would know—and if Tex is town (like you

somehow

silently assumed in post #35), then its all the more power to them. Roleclaiming seems kinda more beneficial to mafia than to town.

---

I would vote you, but my vote is already on you from the RVS, so I shall do the following:

UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: mutantdevle4reals

I agree with Aster's reasoning here, I really really don't like the rolefishing Mutant is doing. It's wayyyy too early in the game for that and is not at all beneficial to town. Even less beneficial is the way in which Mutant pointed out who should be the first NK, like are you kidding me?

Luckily for me, my placement in the list allowed me to choose my role more comfortably. Whether or not I received said role or what role I was after I am unwilling to disclose at this time.

So you acknowledge that you are unwilling to disclose your role; why would you feel that Tex may have been willing to do so?

I hadn't previously considered the possibility of scum taking roles to prevent town having them. Possibly because I'm someone who prefers to boost one's own team rather than subtracting from the other.

Look at this. I mean REALLY LOOK AT IT. He draws a parallel between the two and basically says "As scum, I prefer to boost my own team rather than try to subtract from town by taking their PR's away."

wow, finally getting this started - it feels like it's been over a month since i signed up.

Leaving here that I detected so far one post that looks very forced and one post that looks very genuine.

Free towncred if you can find each.

12 & 16?

Also I get the feeling this question is to just test for people who want to appear townie.

why did you answer it, then?

I would like an answer to this as well.

Ugh, that rolefishing.

mutant, have you tried a newbie before?

I don't like this. His join date is a month ago but he already said earlier in the thread that he has plenty of experience playing mafia, and in case that wasn't clear, he even refutes your noob claim later:

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

I’m familiarising myself with how things work on this site. I’m yet to complete a game here but I am currently in 3 of them. On the EE forums however I have played at least 6 games and even hosted one. The mafia culture there is a lot different though. So basically I’m not completely inexperienced and I wouldn’t want anyone to discard me as that.

I almost think that Creature is a scumbuddy who is trying to help out Mutant, and Mutant is just too prideful to take the bait.

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

I don't like how Wilky is willfully ignoring the rolefishing issue which has generated so much discussion otherwise.

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

I don't know how I feel about this, he acknowledges the issue with Mutant but it seems obligatory, like he just has to acknowledge what's going on.

VOTE: mutantdevie for bandwagoning.

(This is totally unrelated from my fear of mutant zombies.)

Seemed forced.

VOTE: Pisskop - One scum in the group of 1's for sure.

Also holy shit, look at that. I managed to pick the one number that wouldn't screw me and someone else over.

Seemed genuine.

Can you explain this a bit more? These are both RVS votes, surely your reads have to have developed a little more since then. Also, why are you just now answering this question, which was already pointed out by Mutant as seemingly obvious fishing for towncred?

@Viomi: there are 2 questions in the last para.

[Viomi]

Well, it seems like this game is going to be progressing at a good clip. Hi all, back from Thanksgiving shenanigans and ready to dive in.

Curious is how quickly you backtrack on asking for a roleclaim. Northside

hadn't even said a word

and you already felt like you needed to defend yourself with "no, I totally wasn't asking for roleclaims!". It gives the impression that

you knew

that you just committed a scum action.

---

There is one more curious thing about asking for roles: suppose Tex would claim her role. We, as townies, wouldn't have a clue whether her role was town or not. The mafia, however, would know—and if Tex is town (like you

somehow

silently assumed in post #35), then its all the more power to them. Roleclaiming seems kinda more beneficial to mafia than to town.

---

I would vote you, but my vote is already on you from the RVS, so I shall do the following:

UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: mutantdevle4reals

I agree with Aster's reasoning here, I really really don't like the rolefishing Mutant is doing. It's wayyyy too early in the game for that and is not at all beneficial to town. Even less beneficial is the way in which Mutant pointed out who should be the first NK, like are you kidding me?

Luckily for me, my placement in the list allowed me to choose my role more comfortably. Whether or not I received said role or what role I was after I am unwilling to disclose at this time.

So you acknowledge that you are unwilling to disclose your role; why would you feel that Tex may have been willing to do so?

I hadn't previously considered the possibility of scum taking roles to prevent town having them. Possibly because I'm someone who prefers to boost one's own team rather than subtracting from the other.

Look at this. I mean REALLY LOOK AT IT. He draws a parallel between the two and basically says "As scum, I prefer to boost my own team rather than try to subtract from town by taking their PR's away."

wow, finally getting this started - it feels like it's been over a month since i signed up.

Leaving here that I detected so far one post that looks very forced and one post that looks very genuine.

Free towncred if you can find each.

12 & 16?

Also I get the feeling this question is to just test for people who want to appear townie.

why did you answer it, then?

I would like an answer to this as well.

Ugh, that rolefishing.

mutant, have you tried a newbie before?

I don't like this. His join date is a month ago but he already said earlier in the thread that he has plenty of experience playing mafia, and in case that wasn't clear, he even refutes your noob claim later:

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

I’m familiarising myself with how things work on this site. I’m yet to complete a game here but I am currently in 3 of them. On the EE forums however I have played at least 6 games and even hosted one. The mafia culture there is a lot different though. So basically I’m not completely inexperienced and I wouldn’t want anyone to discard me as that.

I almost think that Creature is a scumbuddy who is trying to help out Mutant, and Mutant is just too prideful to take the bait.

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

I don't like how Wilky is willfully ignoring the rolefishing issue which has generated so much discussion otherwise.

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

I don't know how I feel about this, he acknowledges the issue with Mutant but it seems obligatory, like he just has to acknowledge what's going on.

VOTE: mutantdevie for bandwagoning.

(This is totally unrelated from my fear of mutant zombies.)

Seemed forced.

VOTE: Pisskop - One scum in the group of 1's for sure.

Also holy shit, look at that. I managed to pick the one number that wouldn't screw me and someone else over.

Seemed genuine.

Can you explain this a bit more? These are both RVS votes, surely your reads have to have developed a little more since then. Also, why are you just now answering this question, which was already pointed out by Mutant as seemingly obvious fishing for towncred?

@Viomi: there are 2 questions in the last para.

Ah, no, that wasn't the post you quoted and then I responded to. This is Lalendra's first post, not the first post you quoted in that post that I was replying to and you claimed there were questions in. Nice attempt at a save though.

[Viomi]

Anyways, scumteam is Lalendra + texcat + Chip. GG.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

[Chip Butty]

@Viomi: I think our definitions of fluff must differ radically.

Okay, gotta run...

[Chip Butty]

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Asking questions again. States clear position on lynching Mutant or Pisscop. Suspicious of Creature. I don't have problems with any of that. Sure, it's not hugely original, but that's NAI for L.

First post has no questions, in fact is entirely fluff.

Second post has no questions, just says she'd be willing to lynch either of them and criticizes Aster for jumping over when.. she jumps between the two as well.

Your "assessment" is already blatantly biased and incorrect, trying to make her look more town. Why is this?

Oh this one. First post here is expressing suspicion. It's not fluff. 337 includes an implied question.

So now you ate scumreading ne because i have a differentinterpretation to you? This game just gets dumber and dumber.

[Viomi]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Uhh.. Actually, no they can't! You don't force replace players as long as they aren't breaking rules or getting their third prod. Fluff posting is entirely viable for scum. Did you not READ the mafiascum wiki pages I linked that explicitly contradict what you're saying?