Micro 767: Spyro the Dragon Mafia - Game Over

[UC Voyager]

I still wanna lynch bu

reasoning 101 lol

[garaputo]

VOTE: nsg

I expect nsg to be doing more.

I'm going to vote you, maybe that will get you to do more.

VOTE: Alisaes French Maid

[Kublai Khan]

Same argument. Unless you are scum, you have no idea what the scum know or don't. The mod has explicitly stated "Power Roles were decided by flavour, VTs were then randomised from a list of characters, the left over characters were then given to scum as fakeclaims,
it is impossible to break the game via flavour"

Okay. That quote doesn't support your argument.

Once upon a time way back in the early days mods would design games around a theme where the good characters are town and the evil characters are scum. As a way to get the benefits of massclaiming but reduce the downsides, clever players suggest a mass flavour claim. So everyone would claim what character they had (keeping their role secret). Mods didn't care for that since it broke their games, so one way to stop that was to do what Not_Mafia did.

Massclaiming is a valid tactic, but the downside has to be acknowledged.

In your best case scenario, the town tell the truth, the scum lie, and pick bad lies. Even in that best case scenario the scum gain more correct information than the town does.

Okay, right. Succinctly put. But in the worse case scenario, scum still has more information than town does. So, that's moot.

Here's the wrinkle: I am an Innocent Child, but I'm also a Day 1 Desperado. What that means is that I'm a Day 1 Dayvig. If I vig scum, then I survive and continue. If I vig town, then I die instead. I can only vig Day 1 and if I don't, then I also die along with the lynched (town or scum).

I've been selfish in wanting to mass claim because I think it gives me more information. I don't need any votes to pressure anyone to go along with the plan, but I think it's a waste to vig based on playstyle/philosophical differences. I wanted to debate the plan before claiming because I thought I could have more honest discussion, but both Wisdom and garaputo seem entrenched in a counter-position. Which could be either for philosophical differences or because they fear claiming badly as scum. garaputo seemed at least willing to engage, although not totally convincingly.

Alisaes French Maid stayed out of discussion, then diplomatically sat the fence. So that's pinging my scumdar as well but a lesser extant.
Radical Rat is coming off very town.
I'm very wary of UC Voyager's claim because it seems to be a check of sorts on my power. If someone gets voted to L-2, then UC Voyager could potentially speed-lynch town and kill me off as well. His claiming it unprompted is completely not-scummy through. So there's a possibility that he's actually town and it's a pitfall against competing aggressive town not co-operating with each other. Which pushed me towards the mass-claim plan.

Wisdom... well, he put up 3 terrible arguments against mass claiming ("stupid", "against spirit of the game", and "scum hide in 'let's claim' posts"). If deadline were tomorrow, then I'd be taking a shot at Wisdom unless he wants to abandon the low-verbiage shtick and explain himself.

[Wisdom]

wow talk about shallow

please shoot me quickly so i can conftown

[northsidegal]

i've kind of been assuming that this was a nightless game where scum were completely vanilla and thus had no power to nightkill, but the fact that there are obvious power roles already probably means that this isn't true. i think it's probably not worth it forcing everyone to massclaim right now. here's where i'm at on reads:


beeboy / alisae's french maid — a bit of a lack of posting recently. when i started typing this i was going to put him at a townlean for being quick to call rat town in 42 and 64, but that's a pretty weak reason. overall, null.

garaputo — weird opening. as of recent his posts have been more to what seems like his norm. i'm inclined to think getting into something of a prolonged argument like he has is something that comes more from town than from scum. rat had a good point about him, however, in 151. also, the vote in 176 is lamist, and something i see a lot coming from scum. actually, i see that so often from scum
VOTE: garaputo

wisdom — pretty much null. i can't get a good read one way or the other from his posts. if i had to say something, the serious response to garaputo's rvs vote in 13 seems self-conscious and scummy to me. to also make a conclusion off of very little, 31 implies that scum have no killing power this game. a reasonable assumption and one that i made myself – specifically bringing it up seems strage, however.

radical rat — probably town. i'm willing to believe that 23 was a genuine townslip, and i like the questioning in 51.

bujaber — i think bu is more likely town than not. i've played one game with him before where he was scum and his play here and there are pretty different. the game i played with him he came up with an elaborate fake case to push someone on, whereas this game i'm seeing a lot less confidence which indicates to me that he's approaching the game from an uninformed perspective. even beyond that, however, i think his reaction to being pressured hasn't been bad. one point against him, however, is that in 171 he seems to come from the position that wisdom is already town and is simply biased rather than considering the possibility that wisdom is scum pushing his lynch.

ucv — i can't read ucv, all i end up doing is lynching him in every game we're in together. his push on bu in 92 is really bad, and the reasoning in 96 makes me think that this is a disingenuous push, but again – history tells me that i can't reliably tell one way or the other. to do a bit of setup speculation, the fact that both kublai's role and ucv's role both only work day one would make me think that one is scum and the other is town, and that a similar dichotomy would follow in upcoming days.

[garaputo]

i've kind of been assuming that this was a nightless game where scum were completely vanilla and thus had no power to nightkill, but the fact that there are obvious power roles already probably means that this isn't true. i think it's probably not worth it forcing everyone to massclaim right now. here's where i'm at on reads:


beeboy / alisae's french maid — a bit of a lack of posting recently. when i started typing this i was going to put him at a townlean for being quick to call rat town in 42 and 64, but that's a pretty weak reason. overall, null.

garaputo — weird opening. as of recent his posts have been more to what seems like his norm. i'm inclined to think getting into something of a prolonged argument like he has is something that comes more from town than from scum. rat had a good point about him, however, in 151. also, the vote in 176 is lamist, and something i see a lot coming from scum. actually, i see that so often from scum
VOTE: garaputo

wisdom — pretty much null. i can't get a good read one way or the other from his posts. if i had to say something, the serious response to garaputo's rvs vote in 13 seems self-conscious and scummy to me. to also make a conclusion off of very little, 31 implies that scum have no killing power this game. a reasonable assumption and one that i made myself – specifically bringing it up seems strage, however.

radical rat — probably town. i'm willing to believe that 23 was a genuine townslip, and i like the questioning in 51.

bujaber — i think bu is more likely town than not. i've played one game with him before where he was scum and his play here and there are pretty different. the game i played with him he came up with an elaborate fake case to push someone on, whereas this game i'm seeing a lot less confidence which indicates to me that he's approaching the game from an uninformed perspective. even beyond that, however, i think his reaction to being pressured hasn't been bad. one point against him, however, is that in 171 he seems to come from the position that wisdom is already town and is simply biased rather than considering the possibility that wisdom is scum pushing his lynch.

ucv — i can't read ucv, all i end up doing is lynching him in every game we're in together. his push on bu in 92 is really bad, and the reasoning in 96 makes me think that this is a disingenuous push, but again – history tells me that i can't reliably tell one way or the other. to do a bit of setup speculation, the fact that both kublai's role and ucv's role both only work day one would make me think that one is scum and the other is town, and that a similar dichotomy would follow in upcoming days.

151 was a question, which I answered. I also thought the hypocrisy merited the vote in 176 - I'll defend that vote until I swing (and then afterwards).

[garaputo]

scum still has more information than town does. So, that's moot.

This is about the worst possible reason to give scum more information.

[Kublai Khan]

wow talk about shallow

please shoot me quickly so i can conftown

Yeah... It's stuff like this that bugs me. Instead of pointing me towards scum so that one scum dies and we keep a conftown, you push a plan of keeping scum alive, killing a townie to die so you can continue posting useless two lines posts for another day.

"Great" plan. Way to out-shallow me.

[Kublai Khan]

scum still has more information than town does. So, that's moot.

This is about the worst possible reason to give scum more information.

That's really the only thing you have to say?

[garaputo]

scum still has more information than town does. So, that's moot.

This is about the worst possible reason to give scum more information.

That's really the only thing you have to say?

About that post, yes. The rest was noise.

[northsidegal]

Yeah... It's stuff like this that bugs me. Instead of pointing me towards scum so that one scum dies and we keep a conftown, you push a plan of keeping scum alive, killing a townie to die so you can continue posting useless two lines posts for another day.

"Great" plan. Way to out-shallow me.

why are you assuming wisdom is town rather than scum wifoming you on the shot?

[Kublai Khan]

About that post, yes. The rest was noise.

Well, I'm certainly less inspired to put effort into winning this game. Thanks, scum.

Yeah... It's stuff like this that bugs me. Instead of pointing me towards scum so that one scum dies and we keep a conftown, you push a plan of keeping scum alive, killing a townie to die so you can continue posting useless two lines posts for another day.

"Great" plan. Way to out-shallow me.

why are you assuming wisdom is town rather than scum wifoming you on the shot?

He was a townread in the beginning. He's been dropping with every post he makes.

[garaputo]

About that post, yes. The rest was noise.

Well, I'm certainly less inspired to put effort into winning this game. Thanks, scum.

Yeah... It's stuff like this that bugs me. Instead of pointing me towards scum so that one scum dies and we keep a conftown, you push a plan of keeping scum alive, killing a townie to die so you can continue posting useless two lines posts for another day.

"Great" plan. Way to out-shallow me.

why are you assuming wisdom is town rather than scum wifoming you on the shot?

He was a townread in the beginning. He's been dropping with every post he makes.

Clearly we were having the argument about the merits of a mass claim, when you make specious points ignoring the simple fact that scum benefit from more information by saying that they already have information, you are always going to get that reaction from me. Just because that was really the only part of your post that bears on the discussion we were having isn't my fault.

I'm not your cruise director, I'm not going to be sitting here saying "ra-ra go you" and providing you little gold stars and motivational activities. If that means you are demotivated to play, perhaps you should look inward to find out why you need such validation.

[Wisdom]

because youre shallow and think posting means town

[UC Voyager]

Same argument. Unless you are scum, you have no idea what the scum know or don't. The mod has explicitly stated "Power Roles were decided by flavour, VTs were then randomised from a list of characters, the left over characters were then given to scum as fakeclaims,
it is impossible to break the game via flavour"

Okay. That quote doesn't support your argument.

Once upon a time way back in the early days mods would design games around a theme where the good characters are town and the evil characters are scum. As a way to get the benefits of massclaiming but reduce the downsides, clever players suggest a mass flavour claim. So everyone would claim what character they had (keeping their role secret). Mods didn't care for that since it broke their games, so one way to stop that was to do what Not_Mafia did.

Massclaiming is a valid tactic, but the downside has to be acknowledged.

In your best case scenario, the town tell the truth, the scum lie, and pick bad lies. Even in that best case scenario the scum gain more correct information than the town does.

Okay, right. Succinctly put. But in the worse case scenario, scum still has more information than town does. So, that's moot.

Here's the wrinkle: I am an Innocent Child, but I'm also a Day 1 Desperado. What that means is that I'm a Day 1 Dayvig. If I vig scum, then I survive and continue. If I vig town, then I die instead. I can only vig Day 1 and if I don't, then I also die along with the lynched (town or scum).

I've been selfish in wanting to mass claim because I think it gives me more information. I don't need any votes to pressure anyone to go along with the plan, but I think it's a waste to vig based on playstyle/philosophical differences. I wanted to debate the plan before claiming because I thought I could have more honest discussion, but both Wisdom and garaputo seem entrenched in a counter-position. Which could be either for philosophical differences or because they fear claiming badly as scum. garaputo seemed at least willing to engage, although not totally convincingly.

Alisaes French Maid stayed out of discussion, then diplomatically sat the fence. So that's pinging my scumdar as well but a lesser extant.
Radical Rat is coming off very town.
I'm very wary of UC Voyager's claim because it seems to be a check of sorts on my power. If someone gets voted to L-2, then UC Voyager could potentially speed-lynch town and kill me off as well. His claiming it unprompted is completely not-scummy through. So there's a possibility that he's actually town and it's a pitfall against competing aggressive town not co-operating with each other. Which pushed me towards the mass-claim plan.

Wisdom... well, he put up 3 terrible arguments against mass claiming ("stupid", "against spirit of the game", and "scum hide in 'let's claim' posts"). If deadline were tomorrow, then I'd be taking a shot at Wisdom unless he wants to abandon the low-verbiage shtick and explain himself.

UNVOTE: both
Why would I speedlynch?

[Kublai Khan]

because youre shallow and think posting means town

This isn't a Kingmaker game.

Why would I speedlynch?

If you were scum...

[UC Voyager]

because youre shallow and think posting means town

This isn't a Kingmaker game.

Why would I speedlynch?

If you were scum...

Oh.

[garaputo]

I see a drastic difference in participation between these two and the rest of the players:

• Radical Rat - 1 day 19 hours
  
• Alisaes French Maid - 1 day 21 hours

I've voted both and would encourage others to vote at least until such time as they decide they'd like to join us.

[Kublai Khan]

*waves gun randomly*

[Not_Mafia]

Prodding Radical Rat and Alisaes French Maid

[Alisaes French Maid]

p r o d g e

[Radical Rat]

Has it really been that long since I've posted?

Apologies, I have been reading, I just have very little to say that hasn't already been said.

[Radical Rat]

I propose we just get the massclaim going while we still have time, and shoot the first person to refuse.
Either we get claims or we get flips, either helps me with reads.

[Alisaes French Maid]

So I injured myself while cutting cheese and I don't feel like typing today.

[Kublai Khan]

Well, everyone is for a massclaim except Wisdom, garaputo, and Alisaes French Maid.

So our lynch pool is reduced to 3 people because I'm waving a gun.