Mini Normal 1976 - The Firsts - Night 2[End Jan 8]

[Mulch]

@Mulch: If you were a different player that was town in this game, would you assume you are town and why? From an objective standpoint, do you think your play so far has helped town?

Intresting question.

1) Would I assume I was town? no. Would I lynch or shoot a cop claim? no

So a claimed cop is essentially an innocent child to you? You can keep living as scum and pretending to do checks on people that are dying for the rest of the game.

Wolfy manipulation. I never said I would say I am scum, I said I woulden't ASSUME I am town

I never said I would be an innocent child to me

[acryon]

@Mulch: If you were a different player that was town in this game, would you assume you are town and why? From an objective standpoint, do you think your play so far has helped town?

Intresting question.

1) Would I assume I was town? no. Would I lynch or shoot a cop claim? no

So a claimed cop is essentially an innocent child to you? You can keep living as scum and pretending to do checks on people that are dying for the rest of the game.

Wolfy manipulation. I never said I would say I am scum, I said I woulden't ASSUME I am town

I never said I would be an innocent child to me

You said "Would I lynch or shoot a cop claim? no"

Were there other qualifiers to this that you left out? Because otherwise that does essentially translate to "a claimed cop is an innocent child."

[Mulch]

@Mulch: If you were a different player that was town in this game, would you assume you are town and why? From an objective standpoint, do you think your play so far has helped town?

Intresting question.

1) Would I assume I was town? no. Would I lynch or shoot a cop claim? no

So a claimed cop is essentially an innocent child to you? You can keep living as scum and pretending to do checks on people that are dying for the rest of the game.

Wolfy manipulation. I never said I would say I am scum, I said I woulden't ASSUME I am town

I never said I would be an innocent child to me

You said "Would I lynch or shoot a cop claim? no"

Were there other qualifiers to this that you left out? Because otherwise that does essentially translate to "a claimed cop is an innocent child."

How the fuck is “I wouldn’t kill a cop claim day 1 or night 1” mean

Cop claims are inno child

Remind me to place my vote on you if I haven’t already, this is disgusting, smelly, manipulative horsedung that I’ve seen from scum time and time again

[PsykoSavant]

TwoInAMillion(3) ~

PsykoSavant, BuJaber, Mulch

PsykoSavant(2) ~ rb, Jodaxq
profii(2) ~ TwoInAMillion, Derpy Hooves
BuJaber(2) ~ Sky_Paladin, profii
Mulch(1) ~ acryon

I see three players who all have votes against them all voting for the same 'save myself' slot without any real motivation for actually voting 2mil.

PsykoSavant who was attempting to townclear 2mil at the start and that is what got them in hot water from the beginning of RVS.
BuJaber, for reasons outlined in my prior case.
Mulch, because ??? no obvious reason.

Votes on Profii (TwoInAMillion, Derpy Hooves) need to be explained - with roughly four and a half days left in RL, we are not lynching there today without good new cases. Viable sensible lynch options are Pskyo, BuJaber, and Mulch IMO.
Deeply interested in seeing which of Pskyo, BuJaber and Mulch blink first and vote for the other ones in that group of three.

Town probably will consolidate between Pskyo/BuJaber and I'm happy with either one. I could be sold on a Mulch lynch as discussed by Acryon previously.

Yes because me highlighting something sketchy TIAM did and then saying that I am giving them sketch points for it, and then voting that person when they continued to get sketchy, is def me trying to townclear TIAM. Yup. Good work.

In other words,

@Pskyo/BuJaber/Mulch

please explain your votes in your next posts.

Pay attention, I’ve been explaining my vote on TIAM since I first made it. Nothing TIAM has done since then has made me think town.

The key difference in constraining the lynch is the timing and the reasoning. You wanted it in the first half of the day phase, apparently as an effort to corral voters to only focus on 2iam, Pskyo and Mulch, and by function, restrict players from looking outside that group at players such as yourself. You then further ruled out Mulch and vote parked on 2iam. This vote has never been substantiated other than the initial RVS when Pskyo implicated himself for doing a potentially fake metadive on 2iam, and your vote should have been on Psyko if that was your genuine intention. Since that's never happened I can't see how you honestly see scum!2iam.

I've asked for players to focus amongst the existing wagons, and specifically asked for Pskyo/BuJager, because we're now down to the last few RL days of the phase in between two of the largest AFK periods in the year, and there is a very real danger that if town cannot consolidate we will have a scum-directed mislynch or no-lynch.

Like if you look at this vote tally with just my two picks -

TwoInAMillion(3) ~

PsykoSavant, BuJaber

, Mulch

PsykoSavant(2)

~ rb, Jodaxq

BuJaber(2)

~ Sky_Paladin, profii

Both BuJaber and Pskyo should be going "Hmm, both of us are main lynch candidates for today, guess I'd better vote the other one because I know I am not scum" but they're refusing to look at each other, despite Pskyo being one of BuJaber's alleged scum reads.

I do encourage BuJaber to continue to post and show activity though, because it's much easier to derive alignment information from chatty players, and I may yet be mistaken.

You are clearly not reading. I have stated that Sky was going to be my vote if it came down to a no-lynch/lynching me with BuJaber as a close third, then once I read their subsequent posts, I’ve said that I would vote BuJaber in such a situation.

I already explained my vote. I see Mulch and prolif as a scumteam.

I’ve said a couple of times I am none the wiser as to why you’ve linked us. Would you mind elaborating a bit on that please

I think TIAM linked you two based on this:

profi's assumption of Mulch as town, and Mulch's quick vote of Jodax after profi was voted makes me think they could be a scumteam.

Which is terrible logic. The posts TIAM is attempting to analyze were almost simultaneous (a minute apart) and I'm having trouble seeing how BuJaber voting Profi and then Mulch voting Jodaxq links Mulch and Profi.

[acryon]

How the fuck is “I wouldn’t kill a cop claim

day 1 or night 1

” mean

This is what we would refer to as a "qualifier". That's fine if that's your actual stance, but it's much different than your statement without it.

[acryon]

Also your vote isn't on me right now Mulch, so this is your reminder.

[profii]

If we don’t lynch Derpy or Mulch, mafia have to make a choice. If we have some kind of protection role, they have to decide if which PR is telling the truth and if they think both which is most at risk/most useful.

Although this is only true if they are both telling the truth. If either is lying, there is no choice to make, and if we have a protection role, they are forced to guess which one is telling the truth and hope they protect the right one.

If Mulch is telling the truth and has some reads by the time we get to LyLo, then town will probably have trouble trusting said reads.

Exactly. If we have a PR that we can't trust anyway, then what's the point of them for the future of the town?

It’s difficult because ultimately he could form part of the town majority, which PR or not, is a good thing

TIAM

- can you explain what made you think Mulchs vote on Jodaxq after my vote on BuJ (I think it was) made you conclude possible scum link?

@Psyko, I’m aware of that post and agree it’s his reason, but I also agree with you that it makes no logical sense so I keep asking for a bit more from TIAM

[acryon]

My goal here is not to "gotcha" you Mulch. My point in this dialogue was to point out the issue in giving you a free pass because you claimed cop. If someone gives you a free pass today for your claim, at what point does it end?

[TwoInAMillion]

TIAM

- can you explain what made you think Mulchs vote on Jodaxq after my vote on BuJ (I think it was) made you conclude possible scum link?

Because a) There's no reason to assume Mulch was town and b) it makes it look like Mulch was trying to divert attention from you.

[profii]

It’s still uncontested so there is one reason. I’m not sure anyone we are playing with suffers from ADHD so I’m not buying distraction, especially since at the time half the team thought that 1 post from Jodaxq was was scum central.

Overall pretty weak to be hanging on to that 15 pages later!

[TwoInAMillion]

It’s still uncontested so there is one reason. I’m not sure anyone we are playing with suffers from ADHD so I’m not buying distraction, especially since at the time half the team thought that 1 post from Jodaxq was was scum central.

Overall pretty weak to be hanging on to that 15 pages later!

I'm not going to change votes for the sake of changing votes. I'll change votes if I think there is someone worthy of changing my vote to. As far as distraction, scummy behavior isn't always obvious.

[profii]

I don’t really care about your vote I am just pleased to learn your logic is weak and i thought it would be useful to reiterate it. Vote as you will

[acryon]

@Mod: V/LA Until Tuesday morning CST.

@Town: Do the smart thing here. Look at my argument re: Mulch and determine if your current trajectory is better (hint: it's likely not). Then vote Mulch.

[TwoInAMillion]

I don’t really care about your vote I am just pleased to learn your logic is weak and i thought it would be useful to reiterate it. Vote as you will

It's not weak at all. Your counterargument is that people are paying attention therefore it isn't a good argument and someone else would have pointed it out. So whose argument is weak?

[Apple Jack]

This feels like an odd about-face from you.

Stepping away from the game to let your anger settle down does that to people. I’ll continue ignoring him and do what I feel is right to win.

[BuJaber]

This is very poor logic. You should only strategically lynch town in very rare circumstances, and this isn't one of them. There are plenty of actually scummy people to consider lynching.

VOTE: BuJaber

That wasn't what I said. I'm not justifying a town lynch. I think you're scum therefore I am voting for you. HOWEVER, in the worst case scenario that I am wrong there is a silver lining. More than one player has expressed concerns over letting DH shoot mulch. Not because they believe mulch necessarily but because if mulch ends up town then we are probably down 3 townies at the start of day 2. I stated before that I don't think DH will shoot mulch even if he says he will, but people didn't agree with me. So now I am saying if we lynch suspected scum but end up actually killing town we save DH's bullet so we no longer need to consider lynching based on what would be best-worst case scenario.

The same thing applies to any lynch candidate. Just as long as people vote for who they think is scum. What we don't want to do is vote for a claimed cop just to try and reduce town casualties. That starts us off in a defensive position and way behind scum right from the start.

Acryon - correct me if I'm wrong but if I understood you correctly is that since we can't trust his reads he is useless to town. Well that is not true because if we all townlean on him then he becomes a sort of innocent child which is a good thing as it reduces the pool of suspects. Like I said above it's day 1, there are a lot of unknowns, there is no need for a defensive approach. Our lynch should be based on whether we think someone is scum or not. Not whether keeping them alive is good for us or not. That is my opinion.

[profii]

I don’t really care about your vote I am just pleased to learn your logic is weak and i thought it would be useful to reiterate it. Vote as you will

It's not weak at all. Your counterargument is that people are paying attention therefore it isn't a good argument and someone else would have pointed it out. So whose argument is weak?

its such a tenuous argument I don’t really feel I need to argue it. Partly because I still don’t really understand it and partly because I obviously know there is no link so I can’t be bothered to spend time thinking about it

[TwoInAMillion]

you don't understand it therefore it's a poor argument? Scum want to divert attention away from their scumbuddies. How is that hard to understand?

[profii]

I get it but it’s just speculation and I know it’s wrong so I really dont see the point in me getting involved

[PsykoSavant]

you don't understand it therefore it's a poor argument? Scum want to divert attention away from their scumbuddies. How is that hard to understand?

It’s a poor argument because this means anytime anyone votes anyone else then they’re “pulling attention away from their scumbuddies.” Your logic is crap here.

[TwoInAMillion]

you don't understand it therefore it's a poor argument? Scum want to divert attention away from their scumbuddies. How is that hard to understand?

It’s a poor argument because this means anytime anyone votes anyone else then they’re “pulling attention away from their scumbuddies.” Your logic is crap here.

I didn't say anytime. I said specifically beause profil had just said to "assume that Mulch is town."

[PsykoSavant]

you don't understand it therefore it's a poor argument? Scum want to divert attention away from their scumbuddies. How is that hard to understand?

It’s a poor argument because this means anytime anyone votes anyone else then they’re “pulling attention away from their scumbuddies.” Your logic is crap here.

I didn't say anytime. I said specifically beause profil had just said to "assume that Mulch is town."

I'm assuming you're referring to this post:

Win condition is town out number scum

Assumption = Mulch is town

if we lynch someone else and you kill Mulch that will be 3 town deaths by the time day 2 starts

Therefore by lynching you we save Mulch and that’s one less town death because you didn’t team kill

That’s less towns people dead which is part of the win condition


Therefore the decision people need to think about is if Mulch is town or not. But as I said you aren’t not doing much at all to convince anyone

Profi assumes Mulch is town for the purposes of theorizing. Even in the end, Profi says we need to figure out if Mulch is town or not. Nowhere does he imply that he IS assuming Mulch is town.

You're argument is getting shittier and shittier.

[PsykoSavant]

*Your

Thats gonna drive me nucking futs.

[profii]

You’re doing my defence for me dude, soon we are going to be a scum team... I totally agree though

[PsykoSavant]

You’re doing my defence for me dude, soon we are going to be a scum team... I totally agree though

lol defending you is just a byproduct of me trying to point out to people that TIAM has been skating by on shitty logic and needs to be lynched.