Criticism of Geriatric

[Aeronaut]

7:2 with a town neighborizer.

[Alisae]

7:2 with a town neighborizer.

scumsided

[Gamma Emerald]

And town won

[mastina]

7:2 with a town neighborizer.

There was also a mechanic wherein players would PM the mod the player they thought was most town; that most-town player would get a 1x invention. In order, they were 1x BP, 1x Loved, 1x Double-voter, so there was extra, but not inherently town or scum (because the player voted most-town could be scum, obv).

[Mathdino]

Lol we lynched the 1 shot BP because of course we did

The loved neighborizer was useless because scum could just kill them (instead they killed Not Mafia)

Double vote just confirmed me as town in 3p lylo (and scum could've won it with better play)
Had scum killed the loved neighborizer I could've theoretically chosen wrong

I think it was slightly scumsided counteracted by the ruleset

[AxleGreaser]

Mulch, I have two responses to your complaint that more Geriatric Games would mean less unrestricted ones.

I have one as well.

So if fewer geriatric games would mean more no geriatric ones.

because the people who actually wanted to and would chosoe to play geriatric ones presumably filled the non geriatric up a bit more.
if not please explain how geriatric games mean fewer other games.

AKA

Also aero, for every geriatric game created, that's one less game for normal players to play in

please explain how it is zero sum game.
or why every "normal" game is not one less game for geriatric players to play in.


The plan seems to be to force people who want to play game by particular set of rules (geriatric ones) to play more games of the kind you wan to play in....
(ignoring they might not play at all or get burned out by all the noise (EG: people treating the game as twitter feed) and go away.)

yeah that makes sense.

[AxleGreaser]

The goal of a town leader in my opinion is not to clone him or herself, but to harness individual strengths for the greater good of the team, and for the overall benefit of the town. This is best accomplished by leveraging individual talents; not stifling them. clone him or herself, but to harness individual strengths for the greater good of the team, and for the overall benefit of the town. This is best accomplished by leveraging individual talents; not stifling them.

I have a question.

What happens when the volume of low importance numerous post that some people make drown out the "individual talents;" and "Stifle them" in others.

Who are the special snowfalkes that need everyone else to let them play their way or FOAD. (Those how make the noise or those drowned by it?)

[Aeronaut]

7:2 with a town neighborizer.

There was also a mechanic wherein players would PM the mod the player they thought was most town; that most-town player would get a 1x invention. In order, they were 1x BP, 1x Loved, 1x Double-voter, so there was extra, but not inherently town or scum (because the player voted most-town could be scum, obv).

It actually would have changed if any of the scum were voted most town; there was a whole set of cool shit that I'm very disappointed never went to any use

[Thestatusquo]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

[Firebringer]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

[Alisae]

7:2 with a town neighborizer.

There was also a mechanic wherein players would PM the mod the player they thought was most town; that most-town player would get a 1x invention. In order, they were 1x BP, 1x Loved, 1x Double-voter, so there was extra, but not inherently town or scum (because the player voted most-town could be scum, obv).

It actually would have changed if any of the scum were voted most town; there was a whole set of cool shit that I'm very disappointed never went to any use

like?

[Thestatusquo]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

Your criticism isn't in good faith. Your arguments don't make sense below a surface level. They mostly break down to "WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" type arguments.

[Mulch]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

[Flubbernugget]

The general idea I get behind firebringer's posting is that there's a balance between massive spamming and hard post limits. I don't think that's a bad faith stance to hold. I do think that if players payed more attention to how meaningful their interactions were, it would be a lot more palpable to slower players. I just don't think players have good enough judgment skills on the value of their posts.

[Firebringer]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

Your criticism isn't in good faith. Your arguments don't make sense below a surface level. They mostly break down to "WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" type arguments.

How is my criticism not in good faith?
I laid out my thought process pretty explicitly

And how does my arguments not make sense?
And how am I using think of children type arguments? I don’t believe I did so once.

[Kublai Khan]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

Your criticism isn't in good faith. Your arguments don't make sense below a surface level. They mostly break down to "WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" type arguments.

How is my criticism not in good faith?
I laid out my thought process pretty explicitly

And how does my arguments not make sense?
And how am I using think of children type arguments? I don’t believe I did so once.

I don't know about Shea, but your posts leave me with the impression that you are simply trying to prolong this conversation rather then have a specific purpose to it.

Like, your main issue with the Geriatric playset is that you didn't want people to have a ruleset to govern how you play. People have suggested the obvious solution of "oh, well don't play a game with a geriatric ruleset". And now this thread is 9 pages long. Like.. why? What more needs discussed?

[mastina]

The general idea I get behind firebringer's posting is that there's a balance between massive spamming and hard post limits. I don't think that's a bad faith stance to hold. I do think that if players payed more attention to how meaningful their interactions were, it would be a lot more palpable to slower players. I just don't think players have good enough judgment skills on the value of their posts.

For what it's worth, of the criticisms raised about Geriatric games, Firebringer's more serious posts on the subject are actually the ones I felt were most given in good faith.

[RadiantCowbells]

Think that both the all out rejection of the ruleset by a decent sum of players and the rejection of positions like Firebringers who imo is clearly acting in good faith is a direct result of the formation of ingroups and outgroups on both sides (holy shit am I rb). Minimal group paradigm at its finest I guess.

Also think that a lot of the 'hyperposters' seem to be under the impression that this is going to take off completely and normal games won't be run because they're not factoring in how poor of a measurement popular support in MD is of the opinions of the people who largely play mafia. And frankly even if it was, then that would prove the original conjecture true, that people in general didn't want to play with the hyperposters (who aren't numerous enough to get their own games going) playing like they were in the first place, so it would still be a net positive for the site.

The 'hyperposters' are going on about how the hyperposters are trying to change their ways but largely I am not. On a micro basis I have no problems slowing down content if it's causing issues but on a macro level I don't think that the site wants to change universally to match the posting levels that the geriatric players want.

Like the efficacy of different styles doesn't even come into play here and I don't know why it's being brought up. Again: what alternatives are you proposing @Mulch and others?

I mean from the perspective of people who are anti-geriatric: what do you think should happen to people like Korts? should they not be able to play games anymore?

I think that the mod team can fuck right off

Charming.

I think this pretty heavily decontextualizes the fact that my issue was not with the mod team but with the idea of globally restricting posting site wide.
I also wouldn't be back if I wasn't largely happy with a lot of the recent appointments that made me feel like my complaints about how the discussion side was run didn't fall on deaf ears.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Again, I have no issue with anyone wanting to play under the ruleset. I have an issue with those who believe playing under the ruleset or a similar one would make overall play on this site better. I have an issue with those who believe hyperactivity is why town win rates are so low.

[Flubbernugget]

Yet you continue to bicker with me, conflating "pay more attention and write better" with "post less" every time.

[Ellibereth]

I think luv's saying that that hyperposters pay as much attention and that some of you guy's idea of what constitutes better writing (for mafia) is arbitrary.

[Flubbernugget]

If that's the case, then the head butting probably isn't going to change, because we still can't get people to even post in the right thread about it.

[Korts]

I think luv's saying that that hyperposters pay as much attention and that some of you guy's idea of what constitutes better writing (for mafia) is arbitrary.

Well all of our ideas are arbitrary, everyone included.

I'm just happy we get to share.

[Aeronaut]

Again, I have no issue with anyone wanting to play under the ruleset. I have an issue with those who believe playing under the ruleset or a similar one would make overall play on this site better. I have an issue with those who believe hyperactivity is why town win rates are so low.

Town winrates are low due to a huge lack of town investment in the game.

Hyperactivity and spam posting leads to lack of town investment in the game.

Ergo

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Again, I have no issue with anyone wanting to play under the ruleset. I have an issue with those who believe playing under the ruleset or a similar one would make overall play on this site better. I have an issue with those who believe hyperactivity is why town win rates are so low.

Town winrates are low due to a huge lack of town investment in the game.

Low activity and wall posting leads to lack of town investment in the game.

Ergo