Mini 1972 - Friendship is Magic - Game over

[Tchill13]

Theoretically tora and Dunn are conftown At the end of the last day phase.

So I would imagine scum says how do we kill one and remove the conftown status of another?

They can't leave tora alive due to the fact there is no suspicion of his claim. So they use the suspicion of dunn's claim to their advantage and frame dunn.

If there are in fact 3 scum members with the SK then this is lylo and only scum could know that which would lead to the motive of this gambit. Scum win if we mislynch dunn and he's in fact a town gunsmith.

Now the most important part is he brings this to light AFTER we push hewhoswims.

This train of reason leads me to believe there are 3 scum and Dave and hewhoswims are 2 of them.

[davesaz]

Look asshole, when I say I've been busy it means I've been busy!
It's my first post of this day phase for exactly the reason I gave. I didn't even check PMs until that point.
If you want to throw the game by entertaining lynching me, that's on you.
HWS

might

be scum but I'd prefer the one actually identified by an action, TYVM.
Those who survive the night can fight over the next lynch.

[Beefster]

How do you explain your sudden claim change from VT to Night 3 watcher?

[Havo]

Look asshole, when I say I've been busy it means I've been busy!
It's my first post of this day phase for exactly the reason I gave. I didn't even check PMs until that point.
If you want to throw the game by entertaining lynching me, that's on you.
HWS

might

be scum but I'd prefer the one actually identified by an action, TYVM.
Those who survive the night can fight over the next lynch.

VOTE: Dave

[Havo]

Look asshole, when I say I've been busy it means I've been busy!
It's my first post of this day phase for exactly the reason I gave. I didn't even check PMs until that point.
If you want to throw the game by entertaining lynching me, that's on you.
HWS

might

be scum but I'd prefer the one actually identified by an action, TYVM.
Those who survive the night can fight over the next lynch.

This should be lynched and shot and stabbed and burned.

[davesaz]

Why would someone with an unused investigative action claim it, outside of L-1?
Especially in this situation, with a really obvious kill target to watch...

I thought hard about it being a quasi-CC to a gunsmith, but thought it was possible both roles are present and maybe mafia has a GF and a ninja. I decided to err on the side of safety.

Pedit: Really man, I'm wounded. I play scummy enough to not be sniffed out by maf, barely town enough to not be lynched, and this is how you react. Really?

[davesaz]

If you're town unvote. If you're scum nice claim.

[Havo]

VOTE: unvote

[Tchill13]

Look asshole, when I say I've been busy it means I've been busy!
It's my first post of this day phase for exactly the reason I gave. I didn't even check PMs until that point.
If you want to throw the game by entertaining lynching me, that's on you.
HWS

might

be scum but I'd prefer the one actually identified by an action, TYVM.
Those who survive the night can fight over the next lynch.

one of the worst posts ive seen since i started playing... When did you check your PM?

[Tchill13]

i mean the lynch is obviously dave or dunn at this point and i see how both sides could be true....

[HeWhoSwims]

Jesus wow, this all really is way too convenient. Both dunn's and dave's claims. Both haven't been exactly the most towny players either...

I'm really, really torn between those 2 since yes it's obviously one of those. I mean the only reason I had Dunn as town on my post earlier is because of the claim... but this changes it.

Dave's timing is reaaaally convenient but if he's town it also checks out (I think scum would rather kill the watcher than a mason, plus if they didn't then watcher would know they were to kill Tora). Dunn claimed when it wasn't that necessary but how the fuck do we differentiate between a genuine claim or a ballsy gambit (in both cases)?

[davesaz]

When did you check your PM?

5ish minutes before I posted maybe?
I checked the flip and the rest of the thread, and typed up the post.

[Beefster]

Why would someone with an unused investigative action claim it, outside of L-1?
Especially in this situation, with a really obvious kill target to watch...

I thought hard about it being a quasi-CC to a gunsmith, but thought it was possible both roles are present and maybe mafia has a GF and a ninja. I decided to err on the side of safety.

Pedit: Really man, I'm wounded. I play scummy enough to not be sniffed out by maf, barely town enough to not be lynched, and this is how you react. Really?

Huh... I guess that makes sense...

Not sure how I feel about this.

There usually isn't a good reason to fakeclaim as town, but this might be an exception, especially since he faked a weaker role (if his claim is legit).

I guess it comes down to whether we go 50/50 to guess now or to go with a surer lynch now... We'll have to make the 50/50 shot either way. I dunno if I'd say the probabilities are even though. If anything, I'm inclined to believe Dunn's claim over dave's. Then again,

both

claims are awfully convenient.

I think I'm going to have to sleep on this.

[Tchill13]

When did you check your PM?

5ish minutes before I posted maybe?
I checked the flip and the rest of the thread, and typed up the post.

so how did you know to send in a night action for night 3 if you checked your pm 5 minutes before you posted the result of your night action?

[Tchill13]

im gonna assume you're NOT talking about your role pm lol i thought you were for a minute so just disregard that.

[Tchill13]

i... am gonna lean towards dave's claim being the more credible of the two.

when dunn claimed he added no information to town other than that he himself was town.

Dunn did in fact say we shouldn't lynch screen... that being said. Why didn't dunn just claim at that point to avoid a mislynch? it was obvious i was tunneling screen and wouldnt let it go at that point. So when i said it's either me or screen im not sure why dunn doesnt just out his result on screen to lynch me. from his perspective i would probably be scum AND he is saving a townie.

[Tchill13]

it also makes sense for scum to let Dunn do the kill due to his "conf town" status because of the claim. So if Dunn were scum i would not be surprised he did the kill.

Yes i believe Dave's claim is just too convenient.

i also belief beef called out the SK which was also convenient.

So my "gut" feeling to lean with dave telling the truth on top of Beef believeing Dunn is telling the truth...

Beef's position just makes me a little more confident.

interested to see which way hewhoswims leans...

[Dunnstral]

If Dunn is a GS, I agree with the N1 shot but the N2 shot is bad on so many levels it's hard to express.
I don't see why it's not a safe fakeclaim, unless you're implying fakeclaiming the shots on living players is unsafe. But fakeclaims on dead people are always safe.

I don't know where the idea of MB came from. With only one kill per night it doesn't make sense. Trying to make up a reason for town to have power is nuts.
Tchill made a post about 3 PRs and masons. But IIRC only 2 PRs (plus masons) are known -- where did the idea of a 3rd come from?

VOTE: tchill13
If anything, a mason flip makes it more likely he's scum.

His play doesn't match up with his claim. He sees that I claimed gunsmith, then voted tchill. Why does he think I can be town if he is a watcher in this situation? With no serial killer flip to boot.

That's reasoning for you guys, I didn't take any action at night, I really was 2-shot

He was already likely the lynch for today, I was voting him yesterday, he's faking a guilty on me because his team is planning to kill me the next night anyway/or it's lylo

VOTE: davesaz

[Dunnstral]

i... am gonna lean towards dave's claim being the more credible of the two.

when dunn claimed he added no information to town other than that he himself was town.

Dunn did in fact say we shouldn't lynch screen... that being said. Why didn't dunn just claim at that point to avoid a mislynch? it was obvious i was tunneling screen and wouldnt let it go at that point. So when i said it's either me or screen im not sure why dunn doesnt just out his result on screen to lynch me. from his perspective i would probably be scum AND he is saving a townie.

I didn't want to lynch you

[Dunnstral]

I think it's 2 scum btw, 3 mafia + sk seems like it can get out of hand very quickly (it was only luck that it didn't here)

[HeWhoSwims]

Confusing game is confusing.

Setup talk... if it's 3 scum then it could have been easy for scum to win. If one of the SK kills goes through scum would've won already (3-3). But there's also lots of possibilities for a 3 scumteam to lose (see: doc, SK killing scum). I'm no expert around here so I should probably let y'all sort it out.

However if scum is 2 people then Dave would probably be town. In this case we have a 5-2 split right now, scum!Dave fakeclaims, then gets a nightkill getting scum to 3-2 only to be lynched there as the person he framed would flip town.

That vote for Tchill. It's way too hard to assess properly. I think scum would love to frame town!Tchill by flipping a mason or Srceen. Ergo that vote could be scum!Dave putting the "let's frame Tchill" plan into motion. But it could just as easily be Dave trying to be scum to survive to Day 4. Urgh.

Re:Beef neighbourhood is NAI tbh and while bringing up the SK is eh, it's always possible it's present.

I'm headed out to work for now, hope I come back with a clearer head and perhaps having figured out what way to go :/

I should prob try and iso both dunn and dave later and try to assess what is scumplay and what is town-trying-to-be-scum.

[I Am Innocent]

vote: psyche

I think lynch dave next anyway but especially lynch dave next if psyche happens to be town

hammering cause it has kind of been way too long by now

gl everyone

sorry if you're town psyche

Let’s not forget this last post by Tora. Was obv that Dave was going to be a D4 lynch target, so now a one shot ability comes out coincidentally against the other living investigative role??? Like would anyone have believed town had a 1 shot N3 watcher + 2 shot GS + 2 masons + doc....nope.

Yeah too convenient.

VOTE: dave

[I Am Innocent]

I don't have this game committed fully to memory -- it should be obvious given the holidays but just saying. I'll dump out what I think I do remember, now that I'm not suffering from daily dozens of holiday-induced interruptions (being the only driver in a family of 4 is very taxing, lemme tell you ).

davesaz - Town by role PM

HeWhoSwims - Nagging feeling that not many opinions have been fresh, and I do remember at least once where a post looked like he was trying to make a point but the opposite point of view slipping through in an awkward phrasing. Could be scum, needs a reread to improve read accuracy

Toranaga - Mason

wavemode - non entity who flaked. Looked scummy while he was here.

Beefster - I think that I thought town but don't really remember why. I have to reread some stuff.

Tchill13 - I think he's scum, from the screen and mason pushes.

I Am Innocent - Town read from perceived sincerity in 1:1 interactions. Uncertainty from a feeling there have been some strong positions which look good because they're strong, but aren't game influencing.

Havo - D1 I saw a lot of pushing for a lynch, but at the same time the way that was pushed seemed to be trying to avoid responsibility for the results. (That is, wanted a fast lynch, didn't seem to care if it hit town or scum, but disclaiming responsibility for that aspect of the result). I don't remember much of what he's done since then, not because he wasn't doing but because I wasn't really tracking.

Dunnstral - If I ignore the claim, it looks like scum to me. Taking the claim into effect, less likely to be scum but I don't think I'd want to bet a lylo on it when we come to that point.

Pending some reading:
davesaz, toranaga
beef, Innocent
Dunn, Havo, HWS
tchill, wave

I think town watcher Dave does not give town points for Dunn’s GS claim here either...

[Tchill13]

Yeah.... I'm still stuck after that quick catch up

[Tchill13]

Scum wouldn't want me to flip before screen, tora or maki. Scum would want one of them to flip THEN push me as scum for their town flip. That's 2 lynches compared to lynching me and that just being it.