Open 707 - JK9++ [Endgame]

[UnaBombaH]

..the plot thickens..

[Kop]

I can bet there's 0 scum coming to quick hammer him.
Momo is by far the best lynch today, we leave an inactive slot for the vig.
Tacos/red or something.

I'd also like address my reads in full, but mobile posting Sucks, so I'll try later.

Why is Momo the best lynch today?

[UnaBombaH]

Because he flips scum.
When he flips scum, we can draw more associations based on that.
I wish I had the time and energy to do that full reread on D1 and actions around the wagon - there had to be people bussing, and I just wish Creature would've posted more before the hammer..

[AnonymousGhost]

@Kop - Here's my case on momo.

momo - His early statement that he doesn't believe in town reads was ironic given that he handed a few of those out throughout D1. 683 and 717 are hedgy. Momo claims (683) that both Impede and Creature are scum, but says that Impede should be lynched first because of "more info" but doesn't explain what sort of information we could gain.

Momo says this again and again but never explains what sort of information we'd gain. At a later point when Impede's wagon is loosing traction, Momo undermines his statements on Scum!Impede saying that Impede is not the scummiest lynch candidate. Instead, favoring a Creature wagon saying that "he has more content than redflavor in the effort to make himself appear towny, but is scummy" (717). He undermines this again in 729 when he address that "While I think both - (Creature & Impede) - are scummy ... i think impede flip, no matter what it is, provides more information which we could use right now" with no mention of RedFlavor at all

[AnonymousGhost]

I'd also like address my reads in full, but mobile posting Sucks, so I'll try later.

@Una - Still haven't heard a peep from you about this.

[momo]

looks like I'm getting lynch today...y'all know my reads...any chance I can change your mind...I think I have played as good town

and due to sheeping every single potential wagon in the game

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

[sheepsaysmeep]

that's not called sheeping

[sheepsaysmeep]

i provided my own reasoning

[momo]

i provided my own reasoning

It's still opportunistic af

[sheepsaysmeep]

yeah that's not sheeping

and yeah every person i voted was one of my sr's?
except i voted you cause you had a really really really bad post and idek where im at this day phase like i have no idea what's going on except mathdino rolefishing

[momo]

yeah that's not sheeping

and yeah every person i voted was one of my sr's?
except i voted you cause you had a really really really bad post and idek where im at this day phase like i have no idea what's going on except mathdino rolefishing

Don't you think that mathdino admitting to rolefishing and giving a reason is more of a town reaction than a caught scum reaction...

[sheepsaysmeep]

fuck no
and if he's scum in this situation how the fuck is he even "caught"

[Mathdino]

What the hell Una?

You think that if there's one scum remaining it's seriously momo of all people?

What associations are we drawing from that?

Lemme guess.

"Dino was buddying up to A50 on D1 and momo on D2, how'd he know they're both town? Must be scum!"

I didn't realise momo was a serious fucking lynch option but I guess I have some cases to respond to. Una how the hell does bussing make sense with a 2 man scumteam?

[Mathdino]

I can bet there's 0 scum coming to quick hammer him.
Momo is by far the best lynch today, we leave an inactive slot for the vig.
Tacos/red or something.

I'd also like address my reads in full, but mobile posting Sucks, so I'll try later.

Why is Momo the best lynch today?

The best thing you can do to stop this bullshit momo lynch is answer the following:

Yes/no: Are you one of the following roles: {1-shot Commuter, Tracker, Gunsmith}

@Kop, @momo, @fitz:

If all 3 of you answer "No", then Creature most likely had one buddy all along.

The fact that fitz assumed 1 scum left already means he most likely will answer "no". The fact that momo assumes he's gonna get lynched also makes me think he's not claiming anything groundbreaking.

[Srceenplay]

UNVOTE:

[Mathdino]

@Kop - Here's my case on momo.

momo - His early statement that he doesn't believe in town reads was ironic given that he handed a few of those out throughout D1. 683 and 717 are hedgy. Momo claims (683) that both Impede and Creature are scum, but says that Impede should be lynched first because of "more info" but doesn't explain what sort of information we could gain.

Momo says this again and again but never explains what sort of information we'd gain. At a later point when Impede's wagon is loosing traction, Momo undermines his statements on Scum!Impede saying that Impede is not the scummiest lynch candidate. Instead, favoring a Creature wagon saying that "he has more content than redflavor in the effort to make himself appear towny, but is scummy" (717). He undermines this again in 729 when he address that "While I think both - (Creature & Impede) - are scummy ... i think impede flip, no matter what it is, provides more information which we could use right now" with no mention of RedFlavor at all

1. Hypocrisy is not a scumtell, you should know this. Don't surface-level scumhunt.

2. His claim in 683 was a very common one made at the time. Kop was actually the primary one pushing that idea. Impede was a more active player providing more interactions/reads. His lynch would definitely have been high-info.

3. Everyone said it over and over. Don't expect handholding; it's possible you either read that out of context, or everyone has a unified sentiment of what high info and low info lynches are and already agreed. Creature did fuckall for all of D1. His associations are extremely weak.

4. So your case against momo is that he doesn't make sense? Because congrats, gottem I guess? How is not making sense a scumtell?

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think I have played as good town

/thinks

[Mathdino]

lol literally no one else has anything worth responding to

If we're not lynching Screenplay, we should be lynching sheep or Kop imo.

I don't think anyone else is really on the table.

Edit: momo played fine, you guys just scumread for weird-ass stuff.

[AnonymousGhost]

1. Hypocrisy is not a scumtell, you should know this. Don't surface-level scum hunt.

You're right. It's not.

4. So your case against momo is that he doesn't make sense? Because congrats, gottem I guess? How is not making sense a scumtell?

That's basically it.

If someone doesn't make sense they're either lying - which is a scum indicator -; misinterpreting information which deserves scrutiny to discover if it was intentional misrepresentation to fit a predetermined conclusion - which begs the question of 'why?' -; or if it was genuine and the player needs to be clarified on an issue or needs to clarify the points that they're presenting.

Momo votes are sus but

momo naturally has sloppy play as scum and as town,

so I'm not surprised I'll do more later.

Taking this into account, I would like to verify the bolded w/ you Dino. Is that true?

If so, then I am reading him wrong.

[Mathdino]

Not making any sense is a towntell imo. That's why we started townreading him when he was attacking Jay. This is a psychological game more than it is a logic/debate game.

momo is considered one of the most mislynchable people on this site. I haven't done a proper metadive on him but I have no reason to believe otherwise. If you want me to go read some games, I can. But yeah I'd bet my secondborn on this one.

[AnonymousGhost]

@Math

- Not making any sense is a towntell imo.

How so?

- If you want me to go read some games, I can.

I'll take a look at his topics and do a read for myself, but thanks.

[Mathdino]

I'm on mobile but this rant I did on impede in a completed game might be appropriate

Went back to a scumlean D2 because of lurking

See this is why i have trouble seeing you as town. yes godel has been inactive but he had declared v/la. You tried to do this earlier with me when I posted that i was going to be busy irl and you tried to spin it like I was being quiet.

I just don't see why you would do that if you were town. It is a very scummy thing to do.


Hopefully we will get some content from godel today like he promised.

See I think we're gonna differ a lot on Mafia Theory when it comes to finding scum pre-flip. I'm less concerned about us in LyLo together if you're right about being pretty good in LyLo, as I think we'll have either a flip or enough info to gamesolve. But point is:

I get what you're saying about the weird trajectory, and I think it's important to be asking those questions. The conversation has definitely helped inform my reads.

But a trajectory that's all over the place isn't scummy. It's considered a scumtell because when it's agenda-driven, it's often done by scum to help back up strategy changes day to day. In this case though, it's just Impede's read on Godel jumping all over the place for no apparent reason.

It demonstrates laziness in maintaining consistency, and because I know that I've gotten mislynched for that kind of shit, I've trained myself not to do that as either alignment. But people in my experience are usually more cautious about that as scum than as town, because scum PMs make people self-conscious as shit.

The funny thing is it looks like he's still mostly unaware of why people are scumreading him. Not understanding his reasons doesn't mean it's scum-agenda-driven. I'm not even sure he completely understands his own reasons. Scum often have clear/simple trajectories because they have an agenda. Town? Confusion and crazy trajectories is a towntell.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Edit: momo played fine, you guys just scumread for weird-ass stuff.

he's like textbook scummy

[Mathdino]

Edit: momo played fine, you guys just scumread for weird-ass stuff.

he's like textbook scummy

No, you're not weaseling out of explaining this one.

Your vote was shit. Put the momo case in your own words.

[sheepsaysmeep]

i explained my vote in my next post
it was really more of a vote to respond to a really bad post
and his read on me was too fluctuaty
like i was most town in the category "likely not scum" or smth
then i vote him
after my explanation he still categorizes it as a naked vote and moves me to scummy af
like now he has out of the blue new reasons sort of
also i did explain why i thought he was coasty recently