Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

[Archwing]

Any thoughts on your initial wagon, Archwing?

Well A50 (now conf VT) was on it, Momo, and Moz, who started it. It was the first real wagon of the game, so I think it was a great transition to get us out of RVS. I'm still a little sus on Momo, even though he seems to be conf town to everyone else (first game with them.) Moz I'm fine with leaving for today.

[Mathdino]

I don't believe in introductions. I'd rather let my actions talk for/about me.

VOTE: Mathdino

For not being in the game!

eyyyy i just noticed this
fuck this guy in particular

anyway brb analysing wagons

[Mathdino]

Okay so Kotoko is scum. Doesn't matter if with Beefster or with the other team.

Talked a lot, plenty of words with little effect on the game (looks like trying to look active/townish without being responsible for things). Distanced from the Beefster wagon, likely for towncred after the Beefster flip (or trying to avoid Beefster flip at all). A50 kill points to her.

Not moving vote for now but tentative lynchpool is {Kotoko, Dunnstral, Assemble}.

[numberQ]

Vote Count (2.1)

Archwing [0]

Assemblerotws [0]

davesaz [0]

Dunnstral [1]

Mathdino

JaydragonKing [1]

momo

Kotoko Utsugi [0]

Mathdino [0]

momo [0]

mozamis [0]

Raya36 [0]

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Not Voting:

Archwing, Assemblerotws, davesaz, Dunnstral, JaydragonKing, Kotoko Utsugi, mozamis, Raya36

Night Deadline:

(expired on 2018-02-03 20:14:19)

[Kotoko Utsugi]

Okay so Kotoko is scum. Doesn't matter if with Beefster or with the other team.

Talked a lot, plenty of words with little effect on the game (looks like trying to look active/townish without being responsible for things). Distanced from the Beefster wagon, likely for towncred after the Beefster flip (or trying to avoid Beefster flip at all). A50 kill points to her.

Not moving vote for now but tentative lynchpool is {Kotoko, Dunnstral, Assemble}.

Lol

You're right I didn't want to be responsible for a wagon I thought was on town

But I fail to see how I wasn't doing things

Towncant do shit if they're busy lynching each other and I was trying to prevent what (imo) was town lynching each other

I didn't distance from it either I called it outright bad, stop misconstruing the game to fit your narrative

[Kotoko Utsugi]

And my wagon was met with "oh he's just a lurker" despite being the second leading wagon as you wuicklynced the first

So yeah

I'm doing nothing my b

[Mathdino]

don't fight me over semantic things lol

calling a wagon bad is something i consider distancing

if you don't consider it that, that's great

but the effect was that you got to be the one to call a likely town wagon bad

you said you were trying to dismantle a TvT but you basically did nothing to that end: gave no reasons to convince me beef was town (you even called his posting ass), made no real push on anyone else, you just sat and discredited the nature in which the wagon built up

anyway you're gonna say you weren't doing that so whatever

who's scum?

Edit: i mean true tho

[Kotoko Utsugi]

I clearly have no footing in this game which is why I haven't done anything yet today

I still don't like assemble

And I frankly was anticipating calming him down and being like "see he's being nice and doing town things I told you he was town even though you ran this bullshit wagonon him" but I never got to that point

I think we're more likely to find scum on the wagon from yesterday because it doesn't make sense for Beefster to hammer when the option to give his scumbud the towncred was available

[Kotoko Utsugi]

Aso I feel like talon kill means someone's okay with the gamestate as is so that should prob be concerning

[Kotoko Utsugi]

(So someone ignored by most of the playerlist/viewed as town/a nuisance)

[Mathdino]

beefster might not have felt that his partner even WOULD hammer

the only way that could be coordinated is through daytalk which iirc scum don't have

this actually indicates to me that his partner was a lurker

[Kotoko Utsugi]

Thoughts on talon theory?

[JaydragonKing]

I know some people have a big prescence and all that, Kotoko, but to make a footing in a game you gotta go in whenever, fuck the consequences.

You can't hide behind the fact that some people just post more then others and that you didn't see an opening for yourself. You clearly just showed you can insert yourself into the conversation.

Take this for example. Wabam.

[Mathdino]

what the fuck is jay trying to say lol

anyway the talon theory is just weird

all that matters about talon is on/off the wagon

then we have to wade through WIFOM to figure out whether scum wanted wagoners or offwagoners dead

until we know who made which kill i'm not sure NKA is gonna help all that much for someone who basically did nothing

[Kotoko Utsugi]

i think you convinced me raya killed almost

Pedit

I know how to assert myself but I know if my reads are not proving good I need to step back and let other people carry the game

When I say footing I meant like bearings. I was adamant the beefster wagon was godawful against my read on him and now I look dumb so I don't really want to try to lead stuff until I'm confident again

Pedit

You literally tried to nka me in your case lol

I'm just offering up ideas you can do what you want with them

[Mathdino]

meant NKA on talon
NKA on A50 can potentially be done because A50 actually did things

raya killed A50 is an interesting idea but i want more raya presence before i make a call on that

and i'm not giving you shit for not asserting yourself right now, i'm giving you shit for not asserting yourself back then. scum wants town to lynch their townreads. my issue is the lack of effort in stopping it, BEFORE you had evidence that your reads are bad

anyway yeah we need more players

hey jay go through D1 and figure out who to lynch pls

[JaydragonKing]

ボス！(Bosu!)

[Kotoko Utsugi]

And I told you I was using my method

I did actually try to convince you fwiw but I needed more to work with

Calming someone pst the point of ate usually makes them easy to read imo

Which was my goal

[davesaz]

I'm gonna tinfoil that D1 Mathdino could easily have been Beef's partner.

[JaydragonKing]

Can I point out that, while he did a few points against Dino and Dave, Moz clearly seems to be only going with the flow? He said both me and Momo were Town multiple times, trying to calm us down, but I don't see why he has a read like that?

Actually, I do. Because Dino suggested early on that Me and Momo were TvT. That makes me think he's just repeating points from everyone else, but I can't confirm it completely. He paraphrased your words though, Dino, and a few others, I know that much.

Moz quick overview complete. I'd move on to the next one for ISO, but I'd still like to point what Dunn pointed out, and that was the fact I was on Assemble's lynch, which I only just remembered at this point. I was also mainly aboard the Beef wagon as like the second person who voted him. And quite a few people have said scum is on one wagon or the other, and people can count me as being on both.

Clearly I'm going to have to defend myself from multiple angles soon enough.

[Raya36]

First of all I want to apologize for not being around much D1. I'm not going to bore you with my long list of reasons why I was busy but the bulk of it was exams and tests. Anyway, I spent the night reading the thread so I have this now:

Town:

-Mathdino - Very strong townread here. His play seems really oriented towards not only finding scum (which isn't necessarily a towntell since it's multiball) but also limiting info given to scum which alone is giving me pretty strong town vibes but I'm also getting a strong town gut read from him as well.

-JaydragonKing - This one is on the weaker side of a townread but definitely not just a lean. With the meta I did earlier staying consistent through their iso as well as a general gut read I'm happy to put them as town.

Town Lean:

-momo - As I mentioned earlier I don't like the thought process behind 43. It just makes no sense. 155 is just bad as well. Are you trying to out the masons/monks? Besides those two posts which overall are pretty minor I'm getting town vibes from this slot. I'm liking all of the analyses as well.

-davesaz - This is more or less a gut read. I liked his posting and nothing stuck out as scummy.

-mozamis - Weak gut town read. Partially due to meta since I remember playing a game with him as scum and his play was nothing like this. I don't think I've seen a town game though so this is pretty weak. I am squinting at the vote on beef though. The entire game basically he was opposed to the beef wagon until there was basically no hope for beef. I could see him as a potential partner.

Null:

-Assemblerotws - Not enough to get a read from him yet.
-Dunnstral - Also not enough for a read.

Scum Lean:

-Kotoko Utsugi - Have to agree with Math on this one. I liked the catch up posts at the start of her iso but then on it seems like she was saying a lot of nothing and just using busy work to get through the day. I'm happy with her as a scumlean for now but I'm definitely watching this slot.

Scum:

-Archwing - going through his iso it kind of seems like he's sharing the bare minimim but still appearinf busy. Also 231 seems a like scum unsure whether they should bus and not fully committing. Another thing that is really weird is on 231 we get this:

so I don't know anything at all about Beef.... but this is so fucking scummy, like I don't really.... does Scum!Beef really go down this road?

But then next post 232 we get

Also, I think beef wagon is shit.

There is no natural progression between these posts at all. He goes on to say how he prefers an assemble vote and even after saying this to beef

Man, you make it really hard to advocate against your wagon. Pretty sure this is one of the worst posts in this thread.

Still without switching his vote to beef.
I would not be surprised if he is beef's partner.

[Mathdino]

I'm gonna tinfoil that D1 Mathdino could easily have been Beef's partner.

Okay here's the issue with this.

I started the wagon on Beefster and then strongarmed people into quicklynching him. There's every indication that I wanted Beefster lynched and no one else.

Your suggestion is that I knew he was scum already and bussed the shit out of him on like my 2nd post so I could get mad towncred.

This just gets me shot. The end.


@Raya: Lack of reasonable trajectory is a towntell but I want to hear Archwing respond to you. Otherwise your reads list is basically identical to mine. Which is weird but whatever.

@Everyone:

Y'all need to vote more.
VOTE: Kotoko choo choo

[mozamis]

will catch up later today

[Raya36]

Forgot to place my vote
VOTE: Archwing

[davesaz]

Iso'd Kotoko -- complained about A50's read. Iso'd Almost50 -- pointed a strong association case at Kotoko.
Along with being someone who pushed the cw on a lurker, good enough for me.

VOTE: Kotoko Utsugi

to do list:
reread Archwing & Raya
Check activity list to see if our wayward lurkers have been gone long enough to request a prod.