Mini 549 (Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous) - Game Over

[Tarhalindur]

Fifty-Fourth Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (1) - Earwig
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (2) - Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan)

Not Voting (6) - Ectomancer, Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), UnofficialRulerofEveryone (rep. RangeroftheNorth who rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode, johoohno

6 votes to lynch

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Current Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

March 25, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M.

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Mizzy]

I'm about to be out of town for a bit (woot for an all-expenses-paid trip for a job interview) and will be only able to post little. I'll be back Saturday!

[Nyktorion]

In the Mizzy-Johoo dispute, I am currently rather in favor of Johoo's defense. Rosso's play in the referenced game indeed seems radically more active than his play in this game. Concerning Johoo's case against Tamuz, I have already stated my opinion in post #469. I do not think Johoo's case to be scummy. Specifically, contrary to what Mizzy states in #545, I do not consider points 2 and 3 of the case null-tells.

The one part of Mizzy's attack I can really agree with is the following:

Needing a lynch D1 is a given. Lynching who we think is scummiest is a given. This post of yours is a key example of attempting to look active without actually being active.

Yes, we need to choose a lynch target. That doesn't give you an excuse for blatantly trying to reach night sooner than needed. Longer days are pro-town, and the more discussion we get, the better it is.

Well, did we get a lynch day 1? Nope! I felt that we were heading that way and didn’t like that one bit. Therefore I said what I said and I still stand by it. And it is valid still, we need a lynch this day. I am not wanting to end the day prematurely but perhaps Mizzy can conjure up another mean for us to get the scum besides lynching them?

Johoohoo, you claim you saw it coming that moz was going to be modkilled, and not replaced? We do need lynches, but the more we think about it before actually doing it, the better.

However, the shallow content of RC's last posts shows that he should still retain the #1 spot on my scumlist.

Vote: Rosso Carne

[Mizzy]

However, the shallow content of RC's last posts shows that he should still retain the #1 spot on my scumlist.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Did you check his profile to look at his posting habits? This isn't the only game he's being sparse in.

I can't see using that as a reason to lynch someone, but I can understand, I suppose, why you would vote him. Pressure might get him to participate more.

[Battousai]

I doubt it, since he was close to a lynch earlier and yet he still is posting in the same way.

[Tarhalindur]

Despite seeing a few posts per day (and not that many at that - less than 1 post per player per day?), discussion seems to be running in circles and the game in general does not seem to be progressing. Congratulations, you fail the Mod Deadline Review! As per the deadline review, the Final, Nonretractable Deadline is April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6). Sorry, this is not a joke. Get to lynching!

Thenextepisode and Earwig are being prodded. If Rosso Carne fails to post by tomorrow evening then he will be replaced.

Fifty-Fifth Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (2) - Earwig, Nyktorion
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (2) - Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan)

Not Voting (5) - Ectomancer, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), UnofficialRulerofEveryone (rep. RangeroftheNorth who rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode, johoohno

6 votes to lynch before deadline

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Final Day 2 Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Johoohno]

Johoohoo, you claim you saw it coming that moz was going to be modkilled, and not replaced?

I had the feeling that we weren't going to get a lynch since enough of us couldn't agree on whom to lynch.

@ Mizzy and Battousai: Do you have any other suspects but me? (Just fretting over me will leave the scum rubbing their hands with joy, not having to do anything to win this day)

@ UnofficialRulerOfEveryone: We are still waiting for your fresh perspective, are you still there to give it to us?

[Nyktorion]

Did you check his profile to look at his posting habits? This isn't the only game he's being sparse in.

I can't see using that as a reason to lynch someone, but I can understand, I suppose, why you would vote him. Pressure might get him to participate more.

And then, there is still the referenced newbie game, which makes it really hard to understand his habits.

I had the feeling that we weren't going to get a lynch since enough of us couldn't agree on whom to lynch.

We always get a lynch when the deadline hits, see rule #10.

[Earwig]

Alright Lurkerwig, you've sat around for 23 pages. Are you sure this is the move? Humor me by recounting the past case against Rosso Carne. Surely your latest reasons are meant to sit upon that foundation, so I'd be interested in

your

interpretation of that foundation.

Alright Scumtomancer -

My vote on Rosso has nothing to do with pat cases against him. In fact, I

sort of

agree with Mizzy on this point. His sparse posting habits alone are not reason enough to think he's scum. I was in a game where he was town and he acted the sam way. It is still possible he's scum. At the very least he's a jack ass player. That doesn't make him scum either.

My vote on Rosso is simply because he had posted nothing in awhile, then out of the blue, places a vote on thenextepisode. I stated as much in the post I voted in. I at least gave reason for my vote.


@Tar:

If Rosso Carne fails to post by tomorrow evening then he will be replaced.

Rosso posted Tuesday morning early - post 571. Not much to the post, but at least he did post. Why he above?

My vote stands on Rosso - until he gives some reason for voting tne

[Battousai]

^ mod might have missed, or decided a hi I'm here type of post isn't warrant right now.

@ Mizzy and Battousai: Do you have any other suspects but me? (Just fretting over me will leave the scum rubbing their hands with joy, not having to do anything to win this day)

I do, but you are the most scummy. I am not, though, shutting everyone else out and only looking at you. I've only been posting about you lately.

Johoohoo wrote:
I had the feeling that we weren't going to get a lynch since enough of us couldn't agree on whom to lynch.


We always get a lynch when the deadline hits, see rule #10.

Hypocritical much Johoohno?

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

This game + my life = kicking my ass, only read 6 pages and I have to go to an important meeting regarding school, I promise to read this and comment within the next day or so.

[Tarhalindur]

A brief check confirms that your mod is an idiot, and Rosso posted at the beginning of Tuesday instead of the beginning of Monday. He has until tomorrow to post.

A cursory look at Earwig reveals that I have prodded him on at least 3 occasions. The next time he fails to post for 96 hours, I won't bother prodding - I'll just look for a replacement.

Fifty-Sixth Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (2) - Earwig, Nyktorion
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (2) - Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan)

Not Voting (5) - Ectomancer, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), UnofficialRulerofEveryone (rep. RangeroftheNorth who rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode, johoohno

6 votes to lynch before deadline

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Final Day 2 Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Johoohno]

I made a mix up (since all games I've played on a Swedish site has had that rule #10 mechanism and all games, besides this one, I've played here haven't).

However, I will be away until Sunday and since deadline is so close at hand I will vote now (it is not final mind you, I might have time to change it before deadline).

Vote: Mizzy

[Mizzy]

Just because I do not find Rosso scummy does not mean that I think he is town for sure. I just can't see voting on him for what he's done because as we all know, lack of posting != scum and being an asshat != scum and he hasn't done anything I see as scummy per-say.

@ Mizzy and Battousai: Do you have any other suspects but me? (Just fretting over me will leave the scum rubbing their hands with joy, not having to do anything to win this day)

One scum at a time, my dear, one scum at a time. There's not a lot of participation going on right now for me to make a solid secondary scum-decision and even if there were, you are top of my list right now.

[Tarhalindur]

Rosso Carne has failed to post and is being replaced. Thenextspisode has 48 hours to post, or else he will be replaced (prodded on Wednesday)

Fifty-Sixth Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (2) - Earwig, Nyktorion
Mizzy (rep. Tamuz) (1) - Johoohno
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (2) - Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan)

Not Voting (4) - Ectomancer, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), UnofficialRulerofEveryone (rep. RangeroftheNorth who rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode

6 votes to lynch before deadline

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Final Day 2 Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Ectomancer]

Alright, the replacements needed is getting ridiculous. All you have to do is pop in and say "Im not really following the game right now, post again later.", or whatever. We may decide to put you at L-1 and force you to read, but at least the mod isn't having to go to the replacement thread constantly.

I like Nyktorian's reasoning, and he has been consistent in it all game, so his vote sits well. I dont like Earwig's, but what can you do? He's probably going to be replaced in 96 hours anyhow.
Rosso is already being replaced, which is unfortunate for the timing. We've got 2 days until deadline, and he provided an avenue of investigation in addition to the other player with the most extensive case (and votes), Johoohno.

I hate to lynch on the idea that a deadline is approaching and the role would have to be replaced anyhow.
I hate the idea of lynching replacements. It's a meta thing that I cant help out of respect for the mod and the player replacing in. (Unless it is end game)
But I also dislike the idea of just going to the next guy in line just because the deadline is short and we need a lynch.

I looked at both cases. I also looked at Johoohno's case against Mizzy (Tamuz). I'd have to give Johoono the advantage there. But I got a twinge when he was speculating SK on day 1 for Mountainous. I didn't know why then (why not any other role?), but later it occurred to me that if scum were missing a buddy, they would have a pretty good idea that there is probably an SK out there. The problem with that idea now, of course, is that there was only 1 kill last night, so the evidence doesnt support that idea. Still, my suspicion is still present enough that I cant trust his motivations for his case on Mizzy.
Without a 2nd kill last night to back me up against Johoohno as scum aware of an SK, the case against him is weakened (though Jester made a good point about SlySly joining the vote against Johoohno. That would probably have been a 3rd vote on Johoohno right now)

I'm going to go back to my Rosso vote. I think this will make the 3rd time now. TheNextEpisode's creepy post still makes me want to join

Rosso

instead and vote for TNE, but I think that newbie is probably more accurate, as it appears he has lost interest in the game.

vote Rosso Carne

[Nyktorion]

I made a mix up (since all games I've played on a Swedish site has had that rule #10 mechanism and all games, besides this one, I've played here haven't).

That sounds understandable if you look at it in isolation. However, if that is a legitimate reason for not remembering rule 10, why did you include this

As I’ve said before he also wonders about the FoS-counts (post 94 which I talked about in post 202).

in your case against Tamuz, then? After all, this also amounts to "not reading the rules"? Also, the rule in question is rule #10 in this case, as well - the very same rule which you seem to have forgotten now.

[Battousai]

Ecto:

Without a 2nd kill last night to back me up against Johoohno as scum aware of an SK, the case against him is weakened (though Jester made a good point about SlySly joining the vote against Johoohno. That would probably have been a 3rd vote on Johoohno right now)

It's basically WIFOM, if there was a sk they could have choosen not use their action to save Johoohno for a later lynch (we lynch second candidate today and then tonight there's two actions making suspicion go back on Johoohno).

[Ectomancer]

Ecto:

Without a 2nd kill last night to back me up against Johoohno as scum aware of an SK, the case against him is weakened (though Jester made a good point about SlySly joining the vote against Johoohno. That would probably have been a 3rd vote on Johoohno right now)

It's basically WIFOM, if there was a sk they could have choosen not use their action to save Johoohno for a later lynch (we lynch second candidate today and then tonight there's two actions making suspicion go back on Johoohno).

Correct, but what is

not

WIFOM is that without the evidence of a 2nd kill, that avenue of suspicion does not add to the case against Johoohno. Without it (or something as convincing), Johoohno doesn't tip the scum scale as much as Rosso has.

[Mizzy]

Without it (or something as convincing), Johoohno doesn't tip the scum scale as much as Rosso has.

I skimmed over Rosso again, seeing if I missed anything, but I don't really see much other than him being an asshat. What is the specific case against him other than acting like an ass? Because seriously, anti-town != scum.

[Tarhalindur]

Still looking for a Rosso Carne replacement. Thenextspisode has 24 hours to post, or else he will be replaced)

Fifty-Seventh Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (3) - Earwig, Nyktorion, Ectomancer
Mizzy (rep. Tamuz) (1) - Johoohno
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (2) - Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan)

Not Voting (3) - Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), UnofficialRulerofEveryone (rep. RangeroftheNorth who rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode

6 votes to lynch before deadline

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Final Day 2 Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Johoohno]

<10>

At deadline, the player with the most votes is lynched.

In the case of a tie, the player with the most FoS'es will be lynched. (If by some miracle both the vote count and FoS count fail to produce a majority, the lynch will be decided by a best-out-of-three match of forum Rock, Paper, Scissors.)

The part in italic above (my marking) is the part I mixed up (as commented in my last post), and the second part is something I've never met before and because of that stuck in my mind (and was further brought to mind when Tamuz also asked about it in the game thread). I don't see why this would be strange.

It seems obvious that this game day's voting will be faltering too, since Rosso's replacement probably won't have the time to get in to the game before deadline, and UnofficialRulerOfEveryone appears to have dropped out together with thenextepisode.

I might swing my vote to Rosso if it comes to that (seems to be pointless sacrificing myself and hurting the town when there is somethng I can do about it), though I really would prefer a Mizzy lynch, I think she is far more scummy tha Rosso. On the other hand, this is the kind of town where scums probably gets away by being inactive (which goes for a lot of players in the game right now) and Rosso surely fits that profile.

[Ectomancer]

Without it (or something as convincing), Johoohno doesn't tip the scum scale as much as Rosso has.

I skimmed over Rosso again, seeing if I missed anything, but I don't really see much other than him being an asshat. What is the specific case against him other than acting like an ass? Because seriously, anti-town != scum.

Well, you would have to read me, and not Rosso to know what my case against Rosso is. A relevant quote would be:

@Rosso Carne - What's going on with you? After being accused of some fluff posts, you toss out an unexplained vote, and then when pressured, you can't explain the reason until after a re-read? And you will probably unvote him, erasing the first mafiascum move you have made? It makes it look like you voted him simply to make a contribution, but had no plan beyond the vote.

Additionally, Rosso was muddying the waters in a stupid argument with Ryan, where both were misunderstanding the other. Chaos and confusion are a hallmark of scum. Useless arguments are also a good way to try to avoid a lurker or fluff post label.
When that tactic didn't work, he simply disappeared.

I don't believe my case against him ever involved him being an asshat. I'd also like to know why, if you believe him to be anti-town, you would need to ask what the case against him was?

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Please replace me, I'm sorry I couldn't play.

[Mizzy]

Well, you would have to read me, and not Rosso to know what my case against Rosso is. A relevant quote would be:

@Rosso Carne - What's going on with you? After being accused of some fluff posts, you toss out an unexplained vote, and then when pressured, you can't explain the reason until after a re-read? And you will probably unvote him, erasing the first mafiascum move you have made? It makes it look like you voted him simply to make a contribution, but had no plan beyond the vote.

Additionally, Rosso was muddying the waters in a stupid argument with Ryan, where both were misunderstanding the other. Chaos and confusion are a hallmark of scum. Useless arguments are also a good way to try to avoid a lurker or fluff post label.
When that tactic didn't work, he simply disappeared.

I don't believe my case against him ever involved him being an asshat. I'd also like to know why, if you believe him to be anti-town, you would need to ask what the case against him was?

Rosso didn't post much in more than just this game during that time and even in the games he is still in, he's posting very little. In a nutshell, his posting is very very sparse all over, no more than 2 lines here and there, and there's no content in any of them, it looks like, so unless he's provably scum in ALL those games, I can't be taking that into consideration as a case point against him. If it was isolated to this game, I'd definitely count it, but it's not.

As I mentioned earlier, anti-town != scum. Anyone who's played a few games should know this, and there are players out there (Battle Mage, Adel, JDodge, Rosso) who are very, very anti-town even when they ARE town. It's their playstyle. Because I know Rosso is like that, I can't hold that against him either because he acts that way when he's town. I've seen it.

Muddying the waters can be a scumtell, yes, but it can also be a distracted-town-tell, too. It can be a noobtell, or a VI-tell, and neither of those fit this case specifically, they do serve to illustrate my point in that you need to be careful what you take as a "true" scumtell. Arguments over misunderstandings happen all the time, and between townies too, not just scum/scum scum/town.

My point is that I cannot in good faith follow a wagon based on circumstantial evidence and playstyle disputes. I want to see a real case that isn't held together by desperation.

Like I said, MANY times before, I am willing to listen to cases on anyone you guys feel is scummy, or town, as long as they are well-thought-out and based on

evidence

and not smoke and mirrors.