Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Lycanfire]

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

This is the entire point behind Llamarble's play. This is a problem I see too often: players want certain other players to flip a certain way, so they stick with their first gut instinct instead of fully absorbing what other people are doing. This amounts to feely bullshit.

Also, we should probably lynch one of the players who has already posted today.

Agreed.

Vote: 'marble

F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.

If we want people to take such micro scum tells, we have to be more rigorous. You can't just lump in a mid-word ellipsis with general ellipses.

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.

Llamarble is obviously putting all the attention on himself to rile up opportunistic scum. CES immediately jumps on it. I don't like Llamarble talking himself up on a personal level - it's pretentious - so why does he post it? It's because anyone that would actually raise an issue with it is crippled, reaching for low hanging fruit.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.

You don't think his catch-up-style entry to the game felt forced? I'm assuming he's used to a spammier meta than we are and catching up on a 4/5 page game seems weird to me. Achieving a natural game entry as scum is generally not trivial, especially given the Marquiswagon, and this seems like an affectation that would let him sidestep the essential difficulty.

Open wolf season

[Sauce]

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

@Ergo Let me explain. The quieter wgeurts becomes, the more he can hear .. let's just say one cannot not communicate.

@Liquety's vote (yes, I'm addressing the vote) by now seems more townie to me because it was mirroring my ex-vote on wgeurts, and mirroring is something town needs in order to flash-communicate and coordinate what would disrupt the thread's susceptibility to scumhunting if expressed otherwise.
Thus we encompass the elements of time and vigilence for tone intensity variance into our repertoire of dimensions we can measure and analyze. Basic reaction test trap set up

Spoiler: 101

I estimate the vote's halflife to drop significantly causing it to bounce away to a more suitable target to preserve its own relevance and purpose, lest we have a clear indication of scum on our hands.

[Gamma Emerald]

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

Marquis just seems a bit awkward but nothing super scummy from him imo.

If i had to guess 1 scum on the marquis wagon rn it's Postie. 110 percent gut read.

Could you try to back that up?

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

what would indicate to you that he could be right about dunnstral bussing marquis? do you have a read on dunnstral from his one post / did something about it look like bussing to you? i'm not convinced you actually have anything here.

The fact that the only post so far was a naked vote on an existing wagon
thinking on it tho maybe I should just
VOTE: Dunnstral
Since tbh regardless of Marquis' alignment Dunnstral's vote was weird

Pretty confident on Eddie Fenix and lq being town

Can you talk more in-depth on LQ, I'm kinda on-the-fence there

Is sauce an axlegreaser alt?

Can't be, Alts are going to be represented as Mains.

yeah I know, consider that post more of an exasperated sigh than anything else.

I would like to add that at any point I will contribute to a sauce policy lynch without hesitation

idk I feel like Saue is one of

those people

, the ones who're annoying but fairly good at being towny to anyone who can actually read them

Not associative.
Right now I am thinking Marquis + Shea + Lycan
Re: Marquis:
Overall he's been here but not engaged enough
I don't like his laugh in post 30 immediately after he gets voted
I don't like his use of the team mafia format (mentions teammate but only theater comes of it, asking about others' teammates and who will read is information I think scum would especially seek)
Post 36 is the most interesting contribution he has, but it's treated as an aside ("for the record") and not pursued further. Well, actually it is. 42 part A and 48 part B are fine.

I'm curious about him asking me to unvote postie and about the null because want it to be null. Elaboration on those would be cool.

What is your (or your teams) read on chill?

Not my question but so far I'm kinda townreading him, could change on later pages though

I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?

That was my first scum game, yes.

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.

The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.

If what Postie is saying about themselves as Scum is True, why the fuck does their team put Postie in a Scum role?

honestly I prolly won't read into team alignment picks because they could pull a switcheroo

@gamma – most of your reads seem to come from other players – do you have any reads of your own?

I don't really think that's true? My Marquis read was made by myself, but I just stated I felt Llamar was right. I also have my own reads on Llamar and Dunnstral

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

I can see how they got their reads, that's why lol

stopped at top of page 9, will do more later today

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.6

Marquis(4)

~ Dunnstral, Llamarble, wgeurts, Gamma Emerald

Postie(2)

~ ActionDan, Tchill13

northsidegal(2)

~ Marquis, Thestatusquo

Llamarble(2)

~ northsidegal, Cogito Ergo Sum

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, Sauce

Tchill13(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (1): EddieFenix

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

[Thestatusquo]

Heres a braindump of some reck stuff. I'll try to post my teammates commentary in regular and my commentary in italics, but if you have any confusion about what is coming from whom, let me know.

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.

Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

He thinks LQs catchup is literally the exact opposite of his opinions and also completely underwhelming and he thinks that he would be voting LQ here. He also notes that LQ is quick (heh) to pump the breaks on marquis when there isn't really any reason too

(wagon deflation? buddying? Genuine town alarm at the growth of the wagon? could be any of these.)

He likes CES calling it out.

He points out that LLamarble is usually more jumpy than this as town. He tends to throw attacks every which way to feel people out and see what sticks, not lock onto one person and tunnel them and then start throwing out potential pairs with them. That tends to happen later.

This is a fair point that I missed, and also squares with my F2F experience with him. Like I mentioned earlier, its not unusual for town marble to throw out hypothetical pairs, but its usually in the context of a more curious day 1. He hasn't seemed very curious this day one. He's seemed content to park on marquis and not try to do much game solving, which is weird. I do tend to agree with his assessment of him not being the lynch today though for exactly the reasons he's stated. Like I don't know if the critiquing thats happening of his comments of being the kill tonight are coming from people who have ever played with him before, but I'll state right now unequivocally that if I were scum in this game I would kill llamarble night 1 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise either has never played with him before (and is somehow ignorant of his reputation) or is lying.

I think I want to lynch somewhere in the group of NSG, LQ, Tchill or Gamma Emerald (who I have some thoughts on that I will probably post later today.) and we can add marquis to that pile if he doesn't stop completely ignoring this game/wagon.

My town pile is postie eddie sauce.

[Thestatusquo]

Oh also dunn either needs replacement or votes.

[Gamma Emerald]

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

Marquis just seems a bit awkward but nothing super scummy from him imo.

If i had to guess 1 scum on the marquis wagon rn it's Postie. 110 percent gut read.

Could you try to back that up?

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

what would indicate to you that he could be right about dunnstral bussing marquis? do you have a read on dunnstral from his one post / did something about it look like bussing to you? i'm not convinced you actually have anything here.

The fact that the only post so far was a naked vote on an existing wagon
thinking on it tho maybe I should just
VOTE: Dunnstral
Since tbh regardless of Marquis' alignment Dunnstral's vote was weird

Pretty confident on Eddie Fenix and lq being town

Can you talk more in-depth on LQ, I'm kinda on-the-fence there

Is sauce an axlegreaser alt?

Can't be, Alts are going to be represented as Mains.

yeah I know, consider that post more of an exasperated sigh than anything else.

I would like to add that at any point I will contribute to a sauce policy lynch without hesitation

idk I feel like Saue is one of

those people

, the ones who're annoying but fairly good at being towny to anyone who can actually read them

Not associative.
Right now I am thinking Marquis + Shea + Lycan
Re: Marquis:
Overall he's been here but not engaged enough
I don't like his laugh in post 30 immediately after he gets voted
I don't like his use of the team mafia format (mentions teammate but only theater comes of it, asking about others' teammates and who will read is information I think scum would especially seek)
Post 36 is the most interesting contribution he has, but it's treated as an aside ("for the record") and not pursued further. Well, actually it is. 42 part A and 48 part B are fine.

I'm curious about him asking me to unvote postie and about the null because want it to be null. Elaboration on those would be cool.

What is your (or your teams) read on chill?

Not my question but so far I'm kinda townreading him, could change on later pages though

I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?

That was my first scum game, yes.

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.

The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.

If what Postie is saying about themselves as Scum is True, why the fuck does their team put Postie in a Scum role?

honestly I prolly won't read into team alignment picks because they could pull a switcheroo

@gamma – most of your reads seem to come from other players – do you have any reads of your own?

I don't really think that's true? My Marquis read was made by myself, but I just stated I felt Llamar was right. I also have my own reads on Llamar and Dunnstral

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

I can see how they got their reads, that's why lol

stopped at top of page 9, will do more later today

Fixing a broken quote
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

Honesly yeah I agree on this post being weird. I was able to make something of Dunnstral's vote, and I never said I knew Llamar was town.

[Thestatusquo]

You mentioned you had a "read" on dunn that was your own. Can you elaborate on that. How did you get a read from a naked RVS vote and then never posting again?

[ActionDan]

@dan – mathdino wants to know why you're townreading quick, he thinks quick was the most likely of his team to pick scum.

Mulch is the most likely of his team to pick scum.

My townread on LQ started in post 93, as during the back and forth between you and Postie I thought that was the right kind of question if one wanted to extract more content that could be potentially useful in determining your alignment and something I might have asked myself. I thought 104 had town vibes too and I don't see anything to dissuade me from these feelings in other posts as of yet.

---

UNVOTE:

203 doesn't seem to be within Postie's scum range judging from the scum games provided. Beyond that, I don't really think she's scummy anymore.

I've read the thread pretty carefully but I don't have any strong scum suspicions. I will read the thread again. In the mean time if people could stop posting multiple times in a row and stop building huge quote walls one sentence at a time I'd appreciate it. I'm pretty sure that's a factor in diluting my ability to make reads.

[Gamma Emerald]

You mentioned you had a "read" on dunn that was your own. Can you elaborate on that. How did you get a read from a naked RVS vote and then never posting again?

I read it as a wolfy pop-in, he jumped in to vote and nothing else, meaning he didn't care about anything but pushing the wagon

[Thestatusquo]

What wagon?

[Gamma Emerald]

The Marquis wagon, wtf bro you say he just made one vote, why can't you discern the wagon from that?

FOS TSQ

[Thestatusquo]

Literally he was the only vote on marquis at that time.

[Thestatusquo]

Here, I'll help you out:


If your claim is that he "wolfy jumped in the thread" and made a vote based off of wanting to "push a wagon" you'd think maybe he'd have chosen actually a wagon, instead of just randomly throwing a vote at the wind in a place where no one else was.

More to the point, I find it deeply unsettling that you think this is the most important thing to go off of at this point. We have 10 whole pages bruh.

VOTE: gamma emerald

[Thestatusquo]

Also I'm not wild about the fact that your first instinct was to attack me instead of trying to figure out what I meant. As town when someone says something to me that on face doesn't make sense my first reaction is generally to try to clarify, not to fos them.

[ActionDan]

@Liquety's vote (yes, I'm addressing the vote) by now seems more townie to me because it was mirroring my ex-vote on wgeurts

I interpret this to mean that LQ's vote was made on you for reasons similar to your vote on Wgeurts, is that correct? If so, please flesh this out.

[Thestatusquo]

Dan vote gamma.

[ActionDan]

I'm still in rereading mode. However, I am interested in his response to you and the last couple of posts.

[EddieFenix]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

@Lycan: Yes I do. Thank you for your explanation.

[Tchill13]

And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.

I feel like this is more a product of you not understanding current MS playerbase. Which holds for the spam comment I didn't quote.

You're still laying it on and contributing to a much stronger null-because-i-want-it-to-be-null-read now.

i think this is more of a product of llamarble pushing a biased agenda. Ethier way he either genuinely believes Marquis is scum at this point or llamarble is scum.

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?

sauce has a "i want the spotlight on me" feel.

when you are close to reading people but decide doing it properly is too much work

I actually lol'ed

[Tchill13]

I like lycans break down of llamarbale. That makes a lot of sense. just because he's trying that doesn't mean cogito is scum though.

[LicketyQuickety]

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

Honesly yeah I agree on this post being weird. I was able to make something of Dunnstral's vote, and I never said I knew Llamar was town.

That requires an inference into the context that Dunn was using. We can't assume that that inference is true because there was no explanation with Dunn's vote on Marquise, which drops the context down to zero.

[LicketyQuickety]

Heres a braindump of some reck stuff. I'll try to post my teammates commentary in regular and my commentary in italics, but if you have any confusion about what is coming from whom, let me know.

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.

Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

He thinks LQs catchup is literally the exact opposite of his opinions and also completely underwhelming and he thinks that he would be voting LQ here. He also notes that LQ is quick (heh) to pump the breaks on marquis when there isn't really any reason too

(wagon deflation? buddying? Genuine town alarm at the growth of the wagon? could be any of these.)

He likes CES calling it out.

He points out that LLamarble is usually more jumpy than this as town. He tends to throw attacks every which way to feel people out and see what sticks, not lock onto one person and tunnel them and then start throwing out potential pairs with them. That tends to happen later.

This is a fair point that I missed, and also squares with my F2F experience with him. Like I mentioned earlier, its not unusual for town marble to throw out hypothetical pairs, but its usually in the context of a more curious day 1. He hasn't seemed very curious this day one. He's seemed content to park on marquis and not try to do much game solving, which is weird. I do tend to agree with his assessment of him not being the lynch today though for exactly the reasons he's stated. Like I don't know if the critiquing thats happening of his comments of being the kill tonight are coming from people who have ever played with him before, but I'll state right now unequivocally that if I were scum in this game I would kill llamarble night 1 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise either has never played with him before (and is somehow ignorant of his reputation) or is lying.

I think I want to lynch somewhere in the group of NSG, LQ, Tchill or Gamma Emerald (who I have some thoughts on that I will probably post later today.) and we can add marquis to that pile if he doesn't stop completely ignoring this game/wagon.

My town pile is postie eddie sauce.

Tell reck I don't have the signature I have fo no reason. And there's no way he can understand that quote by Nacho because reck has never played a single game with me.

[LicketyQuickety]

I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.