Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Dunkerdoodles]

The fuck? I'm trying to AVOID mislynching UCV. Shea doesn't understand exactly what I'm looking for right now. I expected a towntell from him and got a scumtell.

Tell the most site active during 2017 player on your team to take a look. My read has nothing to do with UCVs actions themselves (avoiding the thread which he gets lynched for).

sure sounds like you know he's town (ucv)

[Bulbazak]

Wait...Were you saying something? Your posts have been buzzing filled with gauze for me.

[Mathdino]

I never argued you didn't know how to scumhunt

I'm confused as to why you're not even trying

Like people aren't REALLY hard pushing your lynch

Edit: UCV was likely to be town by team composition, i wanted to confirm that so he doesn't get mislynched

[Almost50]

In fact, this being an event that most players will follow I would love to set an example for all how NOT to play around me.

UNVOTE:

I will wait until I'm put to L-1. point out where I crumbed and instantly hammer myself. It should serve to teach many of you how A50 plays his game (and yet I WILL change my playstyle, so it will only be an end of an era).

[Dunkerdoodles]

I never argued you didn't know how to scumhunt

I'm confused as to why you're not even trying

Like people aren't REALLY hard pushing your lynch

Edit: UCV was likely to be town by team composition, i wanted to confirm that so he doesn't get mislynched

i thought we agreed to not use team composition to read people

[Almost50]

Because every time you die N1 you've had accurate reads

You turning out to be town holds a lot of weight in my mind

No comment!

[Mathdino]

Or if you're town you could nab a win for your team by being good

You're the most likely member of your team to pull off a win and you know it

[Bulbazak]

I'm not really buying the "I'll throw the game and get myself killed! Then you'll be sorry!" defense. If Almost had actually been saying anything of substance before this point, I could maybe understand the frustration, but given the contrary, this really comes off as AtE meant to throw off pressure.

[Mathdino]

i thought we agreed to not use team composition to read people

i'm not playing this game with you, let me repeat myself

1. I went into the game thinking "Okay UCV either brazenly picked scum or other teammates went scum". Whether or not you agree with my meta logic, this was a need-to-sort slot for me.

2. I also figured, okay, UCV is a prime target for D1 mislynches, and I can read UCV personally given a day, so let me set up a situation that will allow me to read him later (you can see me doing this in like my first few posts).

3. When UCV got here, he dodged the questions I had and displayed the exact scumtell I was testing for lategame. I'm currently debating whether or not this holds water (and I'm asking other teams to also figure this out). But I was LOOKING for a towntell because looking for towntells is my preferred scumhunting method.

[T-Bone]

Can I ask you (in good faith) why you feel it's problematic? This might be more for postgame but postgame is a long way away.

Basically, what you're doing (and what Skirt is doing on a 10x worse level) is creating interactions that are easily faked. I understand why you might do these as town, as you might legitimately grasp for these things...but...knowing this, you can easily fake this as scum. And I know meta-players like to use the 'but I wouldn't do this as scum defense'...and I'm not interested in would/wouldn't of someone's playstyle. You did initially sort me because I would probably take a town role, for example.

SNIP

I thought Shea told me the exact same thing about Dino, but I can't find it anywhere. If I could find it, that would make me feel pretty good about you.
Additionally, Shea thinks Dino is pushing UCV for reasons UCV usually gets mislynched for. Do you have any thoughts about that?

I was townreading Dino, but now I'm starting to doubt that read.

I haven't decided yet whether I feel his tone is hollow or not. I'm leaning towards genuine, because Skirt is trying to do a lot of the same things, and he is way more hollow in his convictions. So, I don't know if that is comparison bias or what.

But like, you're feeling off about Dino. Does it bother you that Skirt is mimicking his approach in a lot of ways? Let's back up...do you see that at all?

[Mathdino]

Hey T-Bone, I know you personally don't like my approach, but can you hit up Espeonage (and Aneninen if he's been site active) and ask him if I'm on the right track here? Favour to me. The longer I'm wrong, the more time we're wasting.

[Almost50]

Wait...Were you saying something? Your posts have been buzzing filled with gauze for me.

Because there's not much I can do in this game at this time. Most players aren't giving me much to go by (and I'm not complaining bc reading other games I'm actually HAPPY I didn't end up in 2 of them).

You're the most likely member of your team to pull off a win and you know it

OK, I need to be REALLY careful here so as no to get myself banned.

Spoiler: For Dino's eyes ONLY

I'll tell you a little story: I didn't want to play in the Alisae game, because I have just finished an Alisae game (as Almost Chara) and it was CRAZY and all roles had too many abilities, so it was complicated.

I thus wanted to play in ANY of the other 4, and preferably in a closed setup The open setup would've been more appealing to me if we rolled SCUM there, obviously because there are no TPRs there to begin with)..

Now what do you think the FOUR choices I got were?? I'll leave it to you vivid imagination, and if you get it right (I' sure you eventually will) imagine having to read 4 games (Ali's game aside) trying to figure things our for yourself and your teammates under "un"said conditions. Thank you.

[Mathdino]

I understand what you're saying. Understand that I'm policy lynching you if you do nothing all day but I'll give you benefit of the doubt.

Last question: Why did you choose smith's game instead of Ether's game? The three responses I'm fishing for are "Not answering", "Didn't matter", and "The mod". All 3 are acceptable but I need to flesh out my mental scenario of your team.

UNVOTE: A50

VOTE: UCV
Until someone convinces me this is stupid, we need to get him in thread.

[Almost50]

I'm not really buying the "I'll throw the game and get myself killed! Then you'll be sorry!" defense. If Almost had actually been saying anything of substance before this point, I could maybe understand the frustration, but given the contrary, this really comes off as AtE meant to throw off pressure.

I NEVER AtE (but you probably don't know that). I am inviting you to lynch me to test your theory though.

Look! You have TWO choices:

1- Accept the fact I'm Town and move on. Try to find a lynch on Scum or -at least- one that is most informative.
2- Keep on clogging the thread with nonsense and take the spotlight away from actual scum, and start your D2 with nothing.

I'm not going to play to anybody's liking. I will play my own game just the way I want to, and will catch scum in due time whether it be while I'm alive or from behind the grave. I don't care.

P-edit:

@Dino: Second choice.

[Aeronaut]

lol I never realized this started because I was waiting for a daystart / role PM but that's not how this works and I'm just an idiot

Will be reading up and such tonight!

[T-Bone]

SNIP

KMD thinks that:
- He thinks LLD's scumstrat would be to drive a wedge between me and skirt by pocketing me and tunneling him due to intimidation of a possible townbloc.
- He thinks there's one scum in {skirt, LLD}. He had an issue with how both of them so strongly locktowned me and then started getting in tons of 1 on 1 conversations with me (basically trying to pocket me). He doesn't however think LLD would ever open like that against a scumbuddy skirt.

I'm actually inclined to agree with one scum in skirt/LLD.

SNIP

This makes no sense. Full stop. Skirt, I don't mean to offend....but who sits up at night worried about Skirt? He doesn't have a reputation for being a quality player, and his playstyle is going to make people not want to listen to him initially. Of all the strong personalities in this game...

I can't describe what I want to say at the moment, other than not good things. KMD's thoughts tank your slots' credibility...because A) this is a lazy read through by him or B) a lazy readthrough by him to try and give the appearance you and your team are scumhunting in earnest.

In fact, this being an event that most players will follow I would love to set an example for all how NOT to play around me.

UNVOTE:

I will wait until I'm put to L-1. point out where I crumbed and instantly hammer myself. It should serve to teach many of you how A50 plays his game (and yet I WILL change my playstyle, so it will only be an end of an era).

WEAKSAUCE

I was with you until right here. You haven't done anything this game, this game hasn't been going on that long for you to even do something and get ignored... don't insult us by pulling this bullshit card.

EDIT: I can, but as I demonstrated in this post, KMD's "thoughts" wrecked a lot of my trust in your slot.

[T-Bone]

Also Math, I really don't like the persecution complex...just ask if you want something lol

[Almost50]

@Dino:

I will hold on to my very tangible vivid trust in you that I 1st mentioned back in 130

[Mathdino]

This makes no sense. Full stop. Skirt, I don't mean to offend....but who sits up at night worried about Skirt? He doesn't have a reputation for being a quality player, and his playstyle is going to make people not want to listen to him initially. Of all the strong personalities in this game...

I can't describe what I want to say at the moment, other than not good things. KMD's thoughts tank your slots' credibility...because A) this is a lazy read through by him or B) a lazy readthrough by him to try and give the appearance you and your team are scumhunting in earnest.

I literally don't know the guy but he had a strong entrance so he immediately struck me as a strong player. I'm going to reiterate exactly what KMD said with words swapped out to not be verbatim:
"- I'm townreading skirt, but weakly because he's good at scum. I want to know why he hard-townread you [Math] so fast.
- It'd be difficult not to "townscumread" LLD

; it seems like she's pulling apart you [Math] and skirt with her skirtvote opening and hard-townread on you followed by pulling you into a skirt scumread. It looked like you and skirt were setting up a teamwork dynamic and that could be intimidating to scum.
- There's likely one scum in {skirt, LLD}. They both hard-townread you way too early and it looks like they're competing for your attention. But LLD doesn't enter like that if they're scum together."

I'm not here to defend his logic but it checks out to me. I'm giving those thoughts so you guys can discuss the merits, not as a representation of what my team is thinking. I don't expect that what people's teammates think is gonna be alignment indicative for most (MOST NOT ALL) people, and you know full well it'd be much worse to have a teammate just bullshit a bunch of reads they wouldn't think as town.

PLUS HE LITERALLY READ 2 PAGES AT THAT POINT

Edit: @T-Bone: wat. I thought you had an ethical problem with my trying to read people by meta/what their teammates thought, so I was afraid you just wouldn't even entertain my train of thought on principle, thus cutting off Espeonage as a resource to me.
persecution complex wat. i'm under no impression that anyone in this game is out to get me

[Mathdino]

T-Bone I may or may not have just had a revelation: I think your team is scumreading the things my team does on playstyle. None of us are watching all 5 games like a hawk, and not actually being in the thread changes your ability to push people around and give fluid reads and trajectories on people. This gives the impression of bullshittery. I've rarely asked "Hey can you give thoughts on this specific thing", it's always been "Yo read my game and lemme know if anything stands out". Nothing did for NSG. KMD came up with something to talk about.

In a way, this is like a really weird hydra. If KMD were actually playing this game, his thoughts would look a lot better. They're his. I'm trying to represent what he's saying as best I can because I believe more voices is the cause of TM's townsidedness.

So as a question in response: Are you scumreading this solely due to gut/tone/apparent fakery? If so, then like, fair, my team's playing a game of telephone here. He was falling asleep as he read through my game. But if that's not the only reason, do you see scum motivation in KMD's specific input other than me just pasting them to look busy/gain towncred?

[Bulbazak]

@Math: I would like you to get KMD to explain himself better. I've sent feelers out to Mastina and am awaiting a response. You could easily do the same.

[Mathdino]

He read only half my thread. I'm still waiting on him to catch up in full. Keep in mind I asked you to have mastina's take on one specific thing, while I asked NSG/KMD to just read the game and let me know if they think there's anything I missed. I'll tell him that reexplaining himself is a priority though.

[UC Voyager]

OK. this doesn't seem as close to math's town game than i remember. he is being a lot more aggressive then he does as the times i have seen him town.

[UC Voyager]

though team says he is townie. i slightly disagree. i have only played with him a few times, so i could be wrong though.

[Mathdino]

You completed a single town game with me. A geriatric. Micro. In which I replaced in after early-phase D1.

I don't know how you expect me to not be aggressive if you literally post and comment on other people while openly ignoring my questions.

What I'm asking is this: The thoughts that you said Creature had. Did they trickle in as the thread expanded? That is, WHEN did he give you those reads? Had he been reading the game as I requested of him BEFORE I had you ask him what he was thinking?