Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Katyusha]

also kind of tangential but i wanted to hear from math about his thoughts on the hider mechanic a bit more in depth!

i liked raybells's argument but i'd like to hear why he disagreed so strongly

pedit: i can back smart up because when i was pestering him about having no reads in thread trans was like "smart's always like that and his reaction's townie" so im just kind of taking his word for it for now

plus i dont see him picking scum from remembering the recent DEFCON mafia

pedit: wow perfect timing

[Katyusha]

raybells was your "gut townread" on hindu fake?

raybells this is a very important question tho

[RadiantCowbells]

I wanted to see if he would try to pocket me like he pocketed reck if I called him my top townread. Kinda forgot about him after the mastina thing

[Something_Smart]

If you didn’t really have a point and were just dropping thoughts into the thread you’re entirely allowed to say that, why would that be awkward? And what would have been better phrasing for my question?

The question implied there was one specific point.

I wanted you to say "why did you post it?" so I could say "why not?"

[Something_Smart]

Which literally sums up the majority of my playstyle.

[RadiantCowbells]

Initially I gut townread him from the reck exchange though

But when I said top townread I wanted to see what he did

[GuiltyLion]

Next, on the hider election – I don’t think hider should be used as an investigative targeting a scumread. I mostly agree with Mastina’s 856 that the way it should be used is given to a consensus townread to avoid a NK and lock another town. Two nigh conftowns alive seems more limiting to endgame scum trajectories than even a 1 for 1 trade, especially with future inventions in play on D2 and beyond as anyone cleared by hide is an easy vote for D2 election. My team is still in full agreement that Creature is the best choice but I am fine with giving it to Reck

if

he doesn’t announce his target to the thread as two dead townies is literally the worst possible outcome and any plan with a known target seems insanely short-sighted for that exact reason

Mathdino agrees with this, he's been telling me to elect Creature since pregame lmao. but @katy if you want more I can translate for him, he's online still

p-edit: okay first take I feel that Smart, might have to edit my upcoming reads post

[CheekyTeeky]

Spoiler: long quote

Ok back to this. I can see your point of view but I don't see these posts as AI in that they can come from both alignments. The reason I lean to it coming from scum is in the context of his whole ISO where I feel like this player is actively lurking. There is a pattern of commenting on mafia theory rather than making reads, so what looks to you as SS helping a fellow TR, looks to me like scum shading and trying to sound authentic through logic rather than putting his neck out to push for reads with actual game content.

I also noticed in his ISO that he seemed to have his early SRs (his only reads) on players who pushed back at his posts. Then he kind of pops up here and there saying nothing AI of anyone, happy to sit back and watch you all tear the town apart.

I'm not one to force reads. So if I can't get many reads then I'm not going to share many reads. That's my playstyle, and I'm in complete agreement that it's proving ineffective in this shitstorm of a game.

I don't have a head for emotion. I have a head for logic. That's why I like discussing theory, and also why I don't have much to share. This game is painful to me and most of the things I've been considering recently are in which order we should kill RC, chesskid, and mastina.

If you want to engage me regarding any player other than those three, PLEASE do. That's how I telegraph my alignment most easily. Those discussions I had with Creature... I'd like to have more like that. But this game is making it very hard.

(As an aside: I suck at scum and would never take it unless I was basically forced to, and I think several players here can attest to that.)

If you want more in the way of discussion and thoughts, you need only ask. But if you want reads... I work on my own schedule. And the players familiar with me can probably also confirm that this is the polar opposite of the way I play as scum.

It's not that you don't have a readslist, it's that I don't see you making genuine plays to try and get more information in order to sort people. Like if I saw you sorting people but no reads I might be less suspicious.

Anyway I'm beginning to think it could just be a difference in our playstyles.

What do you think of Hinduragi?

[Katyusha]

eddie pinged me on discord btw to mention that as a toxic player himself that y'all are a bunch of cocks and to calm tf down since this is worse than ether's game

and also that i got the order of his reads wrong from the situation - it's actually rc > mastina > reck > chess (i only really asked about mastina at the time)

pedit: see thats what i thought and i figured thats why you ignored me when i questioned you about that read and im honestly happy with the interactions you got from it because im more solid about that read

[Something_Smart]

It's not that you don't have a readslist, it's that I don't see you making genuine plays to try and get more information in order to sort people. Like if I saw you sorting people but no reads I might be less suspicious.

Anyway I'm beginning to think it could just be a difference in our playstyles.

What do you think of Hinduragi?

I mean, I think most of what I've done has been toward such an end, if it's relatively not a lot it's because I have a life and don't spend hours and hours on mafiascum

Off the top of my head, I liked Hinduragi. I don't remember specifics other than that his defense of me was sound and insightful. Since I'm on mobile I'll post this and then go look.

[CheekyTeeky]

I am fine with giving it to Reck if he doesn’t announce his target to the thread as two dead townies is literally the worst possible outcome and any plan with a known target seems insanely short-sighted for that exact reason

That's why we send the hider to a strong SR and leash him. We just can't get the SR wrong otherwise yep two for one sale.

I guess with the current state of the game we're going to struggle to agree on another SR so maybe this is the best course of action after all *shrug*

[RadiantCowbells]

Also that's l2 I believe. Please do not bring him to l1 as he will likely selfhammer if he is scun to deny us the hider.

I think I likely die tonight either way and there's lots I haven't been able to say while im trying to suppress chesskid so please hold your horses.

And thanks Eddie because I was going crazy here with people scumreading her this game

[Something_Smart]

Hinduragi's definitely a player I want to keep around for a while. It doesn't look like he's pushing any sort of agenda, and I don't really have problems with anything he's said.

[RadiantCowbells]

My thing here is I strongly suspect one of the inventions is a vig

So burning a hider will eventually get us to odds

[RadiantCowbells]

Hinduragi's definitely a player I want to keep around for a while. It doesn't look like he's pushing any sort of agenda, and I don't really have problems with anything he's said.

What about his pocketing of reck? Did that not have an agenda? What about threatening mastina to try to silence her?

[GuiltyLion]

alright so as for reads, I want a CK lynch first and foremost today

VOTE: chesskid

I'm not at

all

feeling ck’s push on mastina and the fact that he’s holding the game hostage for it looks like scum. ck’s reasons basically amount to 364 (misrep), 369 (meta is trash, but hey here’s a barely cogent use of it), and 446 (worst post of all – misrep of what Mastina said and a bs point even if it were exactly what she had said). The rest is noise, snark, and bullying. I don’t believe a town!ck could possibly believe that this particular scumread is worth 400 posts of spamming the thread, feels a lot more like a manipulative play for control of the game as RC has said.

Other scattered thoughts relevant to a few threads of conversation:
-Reck is town, his play reads town and the amount of townreads after the early pressure make me think there’s scum spewing him as town as well
-BYF is town, I don’t see scum motive in his posting, doubt he would have taken a scum role PM, and if he did take a scum role PM he'd be being coached and not fumbling around like he has a few times here. Like in what world does Dunnstral give BYF a scum role and then leave him out to dry? I need much more from Hindu and Reck on the scumreads there
-Speaking of Hindu, he’s pretty meh, can compromise there if we're not doing chesskid. Lots of grandstanding about how this game’s gone to shit but his efforts to defuse haven’t actually done anything and the Yoshi compromise angle is terrible. And now a bunch of townreads are moving there which I think is a promising direction for the game
-personally I don’t like anything Srceenplay has posted but Mathdino is insisting that he wouldn’t have taken a scum role PM and that his play is consistent with his town meta.

here's a mostly agreed upon reflection of my team's reads, I’m not going to write up explanations on all of them but happy to elaborate in detail on any of them.

{Creature, Reck, Cheeky, RC}
{BYF, Mastina, Anenien}
{Primate, Katyusha}
{Hindu, Srceenplay, Smart}
{CK}

with EP to fit somewhere in there once he starts getting involved. Speaking of that, chess trying to push EP and BYF town in 378 was ridiculous as well and I can’t believe anyone let alone everyone let him get away with that

also p-edit: Math is now barking at me that giving hider to a scum on purpose is insanely stupid and "Cheeky is town for this horseshit alone" Is anyone actually against giving Creature the hide? Does anyone scumread him? Why would we not want to have Creature + Creature's clear alive on D2?

[CheekyTeeky]

Hinduragi's definitely a player I want to keep around for a while. It doesn't look like he's pushing any sort of agenda, and I don't really have problems with anything he's said.

Gun to your head who would you lynch right now?

[Something_Smart]

RC: Presumably, he knows Reck well enough to be able to recognize when Reck is obvtown as either alignment. I don't think he would have strategically refused to call Reck obvtown if he were scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Tbh I am still super enthusiastic about the chesskid train so if mastina doesn't want Hindu or people prefer it I'll go there.

But calling him obvtown three times?

[Something_Smart]

Hinduragi's definitely a player I want to keep around for a while. It doesn't look like he's pushing any sort of agenda, and I don't really have problems with anything he's said.

Gun to your head who would you lynch right now?

Since you asked, Srceenplay.

[Something_Smart]

Tbh I am still super enthusiastic about the chesskid train so if mastina doesn't want Hindu or people prefer it I'll go there.

But calling him obvtown three times?

If he's obvtown he's obvtown. It should be part of Hindu's worldview as either alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

But like

Do you think it's possible town wouldn't feel the need to keep repeating ir.
Whereas scum would want to get on recks good side

[CheekyTeeky]

Math is now barking at me that giving hider to a scum on purpose is insanely stupid and "Cheeky is town for this horseshit alone"

Heyyyyy I resent that! That's my team's only contribution to the game because as previously stated I don't do mech spec (is that a term?) But I'll take the dig because my team is awesome <3

[Something_Smart]

How would he expect to get more on Reck's good side by repeating it than by just saying it once?

[GuiltyLion]

I don't remember specifics other than that his defense of me was sound and insightful.

Smart if you're town, it's super easy for scum to write sound and insightful defenses of you. Why is his defense something that can't come from scum!Hindu?