Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Hinduragi]

RC, chesskid is town.

What if you're wrong, Hindu?

I'll quit mafia on this site.

What if I'm not?

for pagetop

[RadiantCowbells]

What if when someone is literally, objectively playing my scumgame the same way that I do it that I can recognize it in a way that others can't?
No one recognizes me as scum when I play like this: it's literally taking candy from a baby, free wins, be super loud and controlling and people eat that shit up.
I've seen this too many times, the posture the exaggerations the fake certainty

Does it really not bother you how bad his Mastina scumcase is? How strange his interactions around the hider thing are?

Like if Chesskid is town and this is the game that I have to play then I want out of it. If Cheeky wants to play follow the chesskid and hate me for trying to contest him I don't want any part of it.

[GuiltyLion]

Well I can't seem to find the MD posts but I know it was spoken about in Surrep, but Elli has a beta program where you basically feed it a lot of meta information from past games and it finds various meta tells.

I was super skeptical this thing existed until he showed me how it cleared vonflare and caught transcend scum in Surrep after the game

Anyway long story short during game prep Elli and I ran some more popular etc posters including Mastina.

In addition to my scumread, and I wasn't even gonna do this since I think it's kinda lame, somewhere in her posting she dropped a sure thing scumtell.

I cannot and will not reveal it because I don't want to get murdered by Elli, but I can assure you with every fiber of my being that mastina is scum.

Now that's fine if you dont believe me, but given how RC is playing we aren't getting anywhere, so one of the following 2 needs to happen and I need promises in blood from the game they will.

Lynch Mastina If scum, lynch RC. Hider stays away from the entire situation.

Lynch chesskid. If town, lynch Mastina. If Mastina scum, lynch RC. Hider again stays away from the entire situation.

Unless you elaborate what the AI says that the scumtell is, I don't see a reason to believe this. If it makes mastina lockscum in a Team Mafia game, doesn't town!chesskid owe it to the rest of his team to do everything he can to convince the rest of the players in this game that it's a guaranteed scumlynch? Why is keeping a scumtell a secret worth more than winning this game?

This would retroactively explain your confidence in the read but I don't like how you're being cagey about actually enumerating what the exact scumtell is so that it can be discussed. We want the tell and more of your reasons for hiding it for so long. You can't claim an infallible scumtell yet also refuse to share it

[Hinduragi]

Let's start with where you're falling short. Human beings have personalities. You and chesskid do not have the same personalities. At all. My scumgame is certainly someone's towngame. I've seen the same kind of scumgame you're talking about. I just don't think chesskid is that kind of scum. I think he's legit thinking this way.

And I don't think his mastina case is bad. I just haven't seen it the same way he has. I think we're all in agreement that reck's a hider and I haven't paid much attention to that part of the game until recently. Especially during the spam I ignored it. I try to look at other things than mechanics because scum and town can easily appear the same when discussing those things.

I don't like this game much either but I think there's still a chance we can win. Cheeky was never on your side. She hates this game the same way I do.

[Hinduragi]

You can't claim an infallible scumtell yet also refuse to share it

If I had the same info, I wouldn't want to share it either. It's not infallible once it's shared.

[RadiantCowbells]

Cheeky's my friend and I can't handle being forced to make a decision between ruining the game for her and playing against what I believe my win condition to be.
If you are town you being caught in the crossfire doesn't help my feelings at all.

there's still a chance we can win.

At this point to me the real definition of 'winning' the game is to either be removed from it or to have chesskid removed from it.

[RadiantCowbells]

At this point to me the real definition of 'winning' the game is to either be removed from it or to have chesskid removed from it.

[GuiltyLion]

has anyone kept track of the Reck elect vote count? I'm fine with moving there but he might be close to majority and I want to get a mod VC in in between for recordkeeping

I'll be back later tonight with more

@Hindu - this is the best possible time to share the info in full, to use it to win a game in a big sitewide tournament. If you don't demand to know what the tell is then anyone with access to Elli's program can just lie and make up this reasoning whenever they want. Imagine an ego like RC claiming access to this program to fake guilties whenever he wants

[chesskid3]

I can, since it's not my intellectual property and Elli has been quite clear on not outing the tells when he has used it in the past. What kind of friend would I be if I betrayed him like that? Like yes I want to win but I've laid it out as plainly as I can.

[GuiltyLion]

Like yes I want to win but I've laid it out as plainly as I can.

you really haven't, you've just asserted that this scumtell exists.

has Elli ever lied about results in past games to his advantage as scum?

[chesskid3]

read "can" as am able to.

And no, not to my knowledge, Elli hasn't been scum in many games since coming back. Why not ask your team if they've experienced it if you seem to doubt its efficiency?

[RadiantCowbells]

It's efficiency is contingent both on your alignment and whether I believe or not that this is actually a thing as opposed to you just pulling something out of your ass to supplement your Mastina push.

[chesskid3]

well theres plenty of people in team mafia with experience with it so the latter isnt a concern.
The former is why i proposed 2 plans

[GuiltyLion]

read "can" as am able to.

And no, not to my knowledge, Elli hasn't been scum in many games since coming back. Why not ask your team if they've experienced it if you seem to doubt its efficiency?

see this is bullshit because Mathdino already told me that Ellibereth has openly and explicitly admitted to doing this in sitechat. I discussed this with them prior to posting and was curious to see whether you'd be honest about how one can easily manipulate this as scum.

you even added the "not to my knowledge" in there because you knew you could be called on this

[mastina]

Also my team would like me to have the invention so I can hide behind someone with high scum equity (as agreed by the consensus) and because any reads on me should not be affected by today's lynch.

IF the invention isn't going to RadiantCowbells, then it's going to either Creature or Katyusha.

I trust nobody else in the game to make good use out of it (and even Creature I don't expect to get good mileage out of it, I just trust him to be town and to get better usage out of it than players lower than those three in my reads so he'd be my compromise if I needed to elect someone not controversial).

+1 for the resistance, RC.

Voting you != resisting my lynch. Chainsaw defense is not actually resistance because CheekyTeeky did not state a mastina stance in that post. CheekyTeeky could have held the stance we were both scum, or held the stance that "one of chesskid/mastina is scum and I'm not sure which, the other is town"--in both instances, voting you is not resisting the mastina lynch because in both instances CheekyTeeky can easily switch back over to voting mastina. Of course I don't know what CheekyTeeky's stance at the time was, only CheekyTeeky does because...

...CheekyTeeky did not fucking state a stance. And resistance cannot exist without a stance being taken. Resistance is pushing back against the lynch actively.

Ok I iso'd mastina and her vote was actually p bad

Yeah no. You don't get away with this empty statement. I've explained exactly where the vote fucking came from, your turn to explain why you think it was bad.

is Mastina of all people a threat worth compromising his position that much for

What

compromised position?

What do you actually fucking lose by mislynching me?

Your chance at being a town leader?

Nope!

The way you've played the game, you've established roots where even if you're fucking proven to be wrong, even if you're proven to be fucking wrong MULTIPLE TIMES, you're still in a position where you can ramrod a strongarmed mislynch through, time and time again. Especially when RadiantCowbells eats the N1 bullet. Who takes the town mantle from you? Name a player in this game who can, with mastina and RadiantCowbells both dead.

Reck? As in, the person who is your fucking scumbuddy? And--let's just for the sake of argument state he's not your scumbuddy and is town even though that's not the fucking case--if he's town, he's someone who you've hard-pocketed and is in no position to reevaluate. As far as a town-Reck would be concerned, mastina flipping town is no different than mastina flipping scum, it is a nuisance out of the game, good riddance, no towncred lost for leading a lynch on someone who on policy alone would deserve it. So even if Reck weren't your scumbuddy, he'd never actually contest your leadership. At least not D2. You could argue by D3 it's possible he'd doubt you but that's what the N2 nightkill would be for.

Hinduragi?

He's in no shape to lead. Just drown him out and he can't post. I fucking know Hinduragi is vulnerable to falling behind in games where players spam hundreds of posts. I fucking know how ridiculously easy it would be for anyone to adapt this strategy and you most decidedly have. If more posts per day exist than Hinduragi can read, then he's in no position where he'd ever be able to take the mantle of town leader. I'm not sure at exactly what rate you'd have to create pages, something like 10-20 per day, but guess fucking what, that's exactly what you

have

done, so Hinduragi as a town leader has been neutralized.

Creature? A rock to the face has more charisma than him.
CheekyTeeky? Not a town leader, a background player.
Something_smart? He's tried being a town leader before, but he couldn't out-fight the scum in spite of him having the best reads of any surviving town and him being bulletproof. He doesn't have what it takes to contest you.
Aneninen? My experience is limited but I've never seen him lead.
Primate? Even in his prime, not a town leader. In this game, likely at least as vulnerable to not producing content as Hinduragi. (That, not even counting the chance he's scum.)
Errantparabola? No offense to Errant, but Errant's no town leader. Errant is more introverted and lacks the force of personality to lead and is more of what I'd call a "support player" than a "leader".
Screenplay? Aside from him being a scumfuck, again, not leader material even as town.
Guilty Lion? Once more, not a player with the force of personality necessary to take control of a game, especially not one where you have the reigns.
Yoshi? More charismatic than Creature, but barely beats the rock to the face.

Katyusha? Maybe the closest thing to a potential candidate but even then my experience with Katyusha has been that Katyusha is the wingwoman of the town leader--Katyusha from what I've seen doesn't lead, per se, so much as help the leader; I've not seen Katyusha actually step up to the plate and become the town leader, dominating the game.

You keep on acting as if mislynching me will suddenly cause your house of cards to collapse--that it's the end of the world for chesskid as scum when mastina is mislynched, that you have no escape, no outs, no way of regaining control.

Except, by mislynching me and nightkilling RadiantCowbells, you just about guarantee that there's nobody left in the game who COULD challenge you. The very fucking thing you are trying to argue makes you town is the proof that you're scum.

[GuiltyLion]

@RC the AI definitely exists and has worked before. chesskid's results as applied in this game are what's in question

[RadiantCowbells]

Except, by mislynching me and nightkilling RadiantCowbells, you just about guarantee that there's nobody left in the game who COULD challenge you. The very fucking thing you are trying to argue makes you town is the proof that you're scum.

This is basically it to me
my team agrees that there is no way chesskid dies if mastina gets lynched and I die
if I get lynched at least if scum kill mastina it's going to raise tons of alarm bells

@RC the AI definitely exists and has worked before. chesskid's results as applied in this game are what's in question

Honestly I believe it is to my wincondition to doubtcast the AI to the best of my ability.
Chesskid as scum isn't letting facts stand in the way of his push: if town lets facts stand in the way of their push then it just means that town is playing from a disadvantage

[RadiantCowbells]

creature

Can you amrock and whoever all agree to either burden of proficiency me or lynch me today and trust my chesskid read, at least to the point of having hider on him?

[Hinduragi]

In the same manner that you can't survive to LYLO, I also argue that Chesskid can't either

[chesskid3]

read "can" as am able to.

And no, not to my knowledge, Elli hasn't been scum in many games since coming back. Why not ask your team if they've experienced it if you seem to doubt its efficiency?

see this is bullshit because Mathdino already told me that Ellibereth has openly and explicitly admitted to doing this in sitechat. I discussed this with them prior to posting and was curious to see whether you'd be honest about how one can easily manipulate this as scum.

you even added the "not to my knowledge" in there because you knew you could be called on this

I mean 'not to my knowledge' is a pretty comon phrase. But, since you asked allow me to clarify.

As I would hope you know, Elli and I are v. good friends offsite , I was the first friendly face he saw all those years ago at Princeton

His only scumgames since being back were...
Deathworlders with me, no AI
some weeb mini theme where he hydraed with Mulch, no AI.
Some game with a bunch of noobs on Elliberetta, also no AI.

So I suggest you check your facts or provide a citation. Wouldn't know about site chat as they saw fit to ban me from that

[RadiantCowbells]

People say that I can't live to lylo on the day 1 of every scum game I play. That doesn't mean that it happens.
Chesskid will not be lynched if he's not lynched today
by the same token, I will not be lynched if I'm not lynched today

[Hinduragi]

Cheeky's my friend and I can't handle being forced to make a decision between ruining the game for her and playing against what I believe my win condition to be.
If you are town you being caught in the crossfire doesn't help my feelings at all.

there's still a chance we can win.

At this point to me the real definition of 'winning' the game is to either be removed from it or to have chesskid removed from it.

Look, I'm sorry you're starting to feel as hopeless as I have when I've been thinking about this game. The real thing is: just focus on other things and do what you can to find scum that others aren't really looking at. So far, this entire game has mostly been between you/chesskid/me/reck/mastina and that's it. I don't think it's quite time to quit but I do agree that dying in this game is actually doing someone a favor.

[chesskid3]

creature

Can you amrock and whoever all agree to either burden of proficiency me or lynch me today and trust my chesskid read, at least to the point of having hider on him?

Hmm I think Creature and Mulch know this is as legit as it comes but I'm happy to wait for them

[RadiantCowbells]

I was tempted to say that you're really not as good at scum as you think you are but I think Mulch would see that as a scumtell

[Hinduragi]

People say that I can't live to lylo on the day 1 of every scum game I play. That doesn't mean that it happens.
Chesskid will not be lynched if he's not lynched today
by the same token, I will not be lynched if I'm not lynched today

I will push it or you or vig him or you myself if I have to but chesskid will not make it to lylo the same way you won't.