Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[xRECKONERx]

instead of reading whatever happened in the last few pages i made a really spooky video



anyway that was fun! time to kill myself while reading this shitshow

[mastina]

I'll start by saying that the things in this post I don't quote I took no issue with but also weren't town.

Also, I did ask my team about chesskid's play. They all think he's town.

Rather convenient that this is stated without reasons attached.

Second off,

BigYoshiFan

: why the chesskid vote after saying you weren't done reading?

It really doesn't fucking get any more obvious than this.

I'm voting mastina because I think the emptyvote on me was dumb

Literally saying he's not fucking voting me because he thinks I'm scum. Reck is saying he thought the "emptyvote" (it wasn't fucking empty, the quote I provided gave plenty enough fucking context behind why I was voting him and was just about as unambiguous as votes get) was dumb.

DUMB.

NOT SCUM.

Reck didn't think it was suspicious.
Reck didn't think it was something that was coming from scum.
Reck thought it was something which was dumb.

Other people rushed in to say, "Oh no, that's just mastina's meta!" I don't give a fuck about meta, I give a fuck about reasons and play in this game. Meta is an easy thing to hide behind so the argument carries no weight for me.

This excuse doesn't fly. You are stating that meta doesn't matter. Yet guess what? You can't fucking play the game without it. Because players have different playstyles. An action coming from one player might strongly indicate they are town, and yet from a different player strongly indicate they are scum.

There is no one set universal way to play mafia. There is no one set way to read things. There is no one set playstyle. There is no one set approach. And if you maintain the stance that voting a player off of their RVS vote is something which is scum (even though you just above said it was dumb rather than suspicious or scum or something like that, but hey benefit of the doubt for the sake of a fair argument), you will be fucking voting me almost every game because oh hey.

Guess fucking what.

Maybe all those players who said that this is something I always do regardless of my alignment.

Have the backing to say it is something I always fucking do regardless of my alignment. Because maybe their experience isn't that "meta is trash". Because they are using meta to judge personality and playstyle. They are using it to dictate not that an action must be town or must be scum, but to know that an action wasn't town or wasn't scum. Which is the correct fucking use of meta.

The game fundamentally does not work if you don't use meta because meta is the way you can determine that actions coming from a player hold meaning of an alignment or not, because in the game there will be playstyles which are different enough from yours that what you would judge simply isn't going to work without use of meta.

What would you do if someone refused to remove their vote from you off the basis of, "I don't care if Reck does that every game, that's meta, I'm saying he's scum for it anyway because meta is trash"?

...What's that, you say?
I don't know about you, but personally I'd find that suspicious as fucking hell.

OH HEY GUESS WHAT I AM DOING.

I'm probably not giving my argument as coherently as I can. I feel like I'm not really explaining the basic nature of the way things work but the right words aren't there. But I think my point comes across anyway.
More or less:
If Reck refuses to trust in all these fucking players saying something isn't alignment indicative because all of them justify it with meta...
...Then what standard DOES he trust? My word? That's even worse because my fucking word is SELF-meta.
My stance this game?
What's to stop him from just going "I don't buy that"? (More or less anyway.)

The burden of proof lies on the fucking accuser. Not the accused. Innocent until proven guilty. All these people defending me, the accused, have given reasons for the defense. Reck's accusation lacks the proof. It's a form of denial basically. He can say there's no evidence to literally everything, because "that's meta". Where does he draw the line between meta and not meta? He can draw it anywhere. So he can keep on saying the same fucking thing as his excuse to not listen to the argument.

And there is no way that attitude comes from town.

[xRECKONERx]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

[xRECKONERx]

What if when someone is literally, objectively playing my scumgame the same way that I do it that I can recognize it in a way that others can't?
No one recognizes me as scum when I play like this: it's literally taking candy from a baby, free wins, be super loud and controlling and people eat that shit up.
I've seen this too many times, the posture the exaggerations the fake certainty

Does it really not bother you how bad his Mastina scumcase is? How strange his interactions around the hider thing are?

Like if Chesskid is town and this is the game that I have to play then I want out of it. If Cheeky wants to play follow the chesskid and hate me for trying to contest him I don't want any part of it.

concept: humans are different

[xRECKONERx]

Let's start with where you're falling short. Human beings have personalities. You and chesskid do not have the same personalities. At all. My scumgame is certainly someone's towngame. I've seen the same kind of scumgame you're talking about. I just don't think chesskid is that kind of scum. I think he's legit thinking this way.

And I don't think his mastina case is bad. I just haven't seen it the same way he has. I think we're all in agreement that reck's a hider and I haven't paid much attention to that part of the game until recently. Especially during the spam I ignored it. I try to look at other things than mechanics because scum and town can easily appear the same when discussing those things.

I don't like this game much either but I think there's still a chance we can win. Cheeky was never on your side. She hates this game the same way I do.

ayy check out this resounding agreement

[RadiantCowbells]

Humans may be different but motivations are the same, and there's only one optimal way to play this setup as scum.

[chesskid3]

instead of reading whatever happened in the last few pages i made a really spooky video



anyway that was fun! time to kill myself while reading this shitshow

K
O
D
A
K
M
O
M
E
N
T

[CheekyTeeky]

instead of reading whatever happened in the last few pages i made a really spooky video



anyway that was fun! time to kill myself while reading this shitshow

You are my favourite person of all time!

[xRECKONERx]

Literally saying he's not fucking voting me because he thinks I'm scum. Reck is saying he thought the "emptyvote" (it wasn't fucking empty, the quote I provided gave plenty enough fucking context behind why I was voting him and was just about as unambiguous as votes get) was dumb.

DUMB.

NOT SCUM.

Reck didn't think it was suspicious.
Reck didn't think it was something that was coming from scum.
Reck thought it was something which was dumb.

i did think it was scummy but also dumb otherwise i wouldnt have been fucking voting you, you nong

[BigYoshiFan]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

I honestly just don't jive with this kind of thinking. If you think mastina is town, great! Just... don't do things like this, it's a really ineffective way of trying to help the town.

If Hinduragi is off the table for a potential lynch, then I'll go back to chesskid. I could do CheekyTeeky too.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

I honestly just don't jive with this kind of thinking. If you think mastina is town, great! Just... don't do things like this, it's a really ineffective way of trying to help the town.

If Hinduragi is off the table for a potential lynch, then I'll go back to chesskid. I could do CheekyTeeky too.

I think that we need to consolidate right now and I think that lynching chesskid opens up our options for the future more than anything else.

[chesskid3]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

I honestly just don't jive with this kind of thinking. If you think mastina is town, great! Just... don't do things like this, it's a really ineffective way of trying to help the town.

If Hinduragi is off the table for a potential lynch, then I'll go back to chesskid. I could do CheekyTeeky too.

You should listen to Chara.

[xRECKONERx]

Keely thinks Hindu is scum based on ISO/meta

I don't like meta so I don't care but putting that out there

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm concerned with lynching scum. Chesskid is doing better, and even if he continued to play in the same way I found annoying, my priority is scum. Hinduragi is pretty clearly scum from my perspective, and I want him over chesskid.

[CheekyTeeky]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

I honestly just don't jive with this kind of thinking. If you think mastina is town, great! Just... don't do things like this, it's a really ineffective way of trying to help the town.

If Hinduragi is off the table for a potential lynch, then I'll go back to chesskid. I could do CheekyTeeky too.

You should listen to Chara.

Wait wtf if Chara is on your team then you, my dude, are scum.

[xRECKONERx]

This excuse doesn't fly. You are stating that meta doesn't matter. Yet guess what? You can't fucking play the game without it. Because players have different playstyles. An action coming from one player might strongly indicate they are town, and yet from a different player strongly indicate they are scum.

i can and i do

[chesskid3]

Ok except go read post #1669 and then go read whatever Chara wrote about it thanks

[BigYoshiFan]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

I honestly just don't jive with this kind of thinking. If you think mastina is town, great! Just... don't do things like this, it's a really ineffective way of trying to help the town.

If Hinduragi is off the table for a potential lynch, then I'll go back to chesskid. I could do CheekyTeeky too.

You should listen to Chara.

Wait wtf if Chara is on your team then you, my dude, are scum.

?????????????????????????????

[chesskid3]

Cheeky is saying you need to be listening to Chara as well

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm concerned with lynching scum. Chesskid is doing better, and even if he continued to play in the same way I found annoying, my priority is scum. Hinduragi is pretty clearly scum from my perspective, and I want him over chesskid.

I realize that I am being selfish in attempting to consolidate on chesskid as opposed to other options but I think it's highest scum equity and puts town in the best position

[CheekyTeeky]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

I honestly just don't jive with this kind of thinking. If you think mastina is town, great! Just... don't do things like this, it's a really ineffective way of trying to help the town.

If Hinduragi is off the table for a potential lynch, then I'll go back to chesskid. I could do CheekyTeeky too.

You should listen to Chara.

Wait wtf if Chara is on your team then you, my dude, are scum.

?????????????????????????????

You wouldn't have such shitty reads if Chara was on your team and you were Town, therefore you're scum.

Like doubt = zero scum.

[xRECKONERx]

What would you do if someone refused to remove their vote from you off the basis of, "I don't care if Reck does that every game, that's meta, I'm saying he's scum for it anyway because meta is trash"?

...What's that, you say?
I don't know about you, but personally I'd find that suspicious as fucking hell.

I'd be like "aight fam you do you, but I'm not scum" and I would try to explain why what I'm doing is town motivated instead of going

HURR HRRU;ALSKDJUF;O U SO DUMB U NO GET MY META

meta becomes useless the second somebody is aware of it.

If Reck refuses to trust in all these fucking players saying something isn't alignment indicative because all of them justify it with meta...
...Then what standard DOES he trust? My word? That's even worse because my fucking word is SELF-meta.
My stance this game?
What's to stop him from just going "I don't buy that"? (More or less anyway.)

idk like i shouldnt have to explain to you how motivations, associations, and behavior are important in mafia, so like, idk read a book or somethin i guess!

The burden of proof lies on the fucking accuser. Not the accused. Innocent until proven guilty. All these people defending me, the accused, have given reasons for the defense. Reck's accusation lacks the proof. It's a form of denial basically. He can say there's no evidence to literally everything, because "that's meta". Where does he draw the line between meta and not meta? He can draw it anywhere. So he can keep on saying the same fucking thing as his excuse to not listen to the argument.

And there is no way that attitude comes from town.

wrong, they're not accused, you are
and you haven't addressed anything ive said to you in a way that is satisfactory to me so

sit and spin, motherfucker

[BigYoshiFan]

You wouldn't have such shitty reads if Chara was on your team and you were Town, therefore you're scum.

Like doubt = zero scum.

[xRECKONERx]

oh that image should be this

[CheekyTeeky]

You wouldn't have such shitty reads if Chara was on your team and you were Town, therefore you're scum.

Like doubt = zero scum.

Yeah you effed up. Game over.