Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Transcend]

Cool well Eddie doesn't suck

[Dunkerdoodles]

bins is town
elena might be scum but no
i have changed my mind and decided to scumread math again

VOTE: mathdino

[T-Bone]

T-Bone you and your reads are a complete mystery to me right now. Who do you think is scum and why?

I think I've been transparent in that I'd like to lynch one of Transcend/Math/A50 at this point, and thus, I don't want to lynch anyone else.

Transcend because of his predecessor's early day play. I found him to be completely mimicking Mathdino in substance, but not conviction. This pings me a couple of ways. First, in the gamestate, which was the first 16 hours, you might consider Math the town leader, based on his posting and such. Skirt does a lot of spamposty stuff, which is his style, I get. But it lacks conviction, and yet, I'd say until Skirt decided he was pissed off at Bulba and myself, that his strategy was to just play follow the leader with Math. A lot of what I go back and forth with Math on is that despite the scummy things he does, he was mostly sincere in his desire to communicate, and his desire to put himself out there. Skirt lacked both of these attributes the entire time he was in the game. Now, the post where he decides to vote me with a case still lacks the conviction of scumhunting. Because he spends quite a bit of the post laminating about how Bulba and I are too old to get his playstyle, how we might be decent players but arrogant because we've been around awhile. Oh, and how this post wouldn't turn into a T-Bone case because he hasn't posted enough and the game hasn't gone on long enough for him to have a read. Which is fine.

In post #514, the first spoiler, I think is genuine. I think he interpreted the way I talked about him in regards to KMD as a personal insult, and that part of the post came from the heart. Then he starts quoting Bulba, and basically starts breaking down why everyone voting for him is wrong (which at this point is LLD, Bulba, UCV, and myself). Contrast that with the bottom of his post, the readslist. Absolutely no conviction. The readslist is full of "I don't have a read, I sheep my teammates" and we townread these players...and oh by the way we all think T-Bone is scum.

And no one sees the difference? (obviously Bulba and I do, and presumably LLD if she has followed along)

Math is probably the majority of my ISO, so let me tl;dr for you. I interacted with him heavily in the early game, because I wanted to decide for myself whether he was using his mafia-theory and meta-hunting talk as legitimate tools, or hiding behind them because when you are a meta player it is very easily to be a "meta-player" as scum. I know meta-players like to say that they can't fake it, but I don't buy it. I was leaning town early on Math actually, despite the issues that I brought up, because he was the counterweight to Skirt, who I feel is our strongest candidate for scum. Obviously, the KMD thing is where I started to think otherwise, because I felt like KMD's reads had no context in the gamestate. They looked fake to me. Finally, his 180 on tone when he decided that he could try to lynch me...makes me think that was a change of heart out of convenience, to try to get a player lynched who is giving him a hard time. That's how it looks to my eyes. If Math is scum, that explains everything. (If Math is town, then I have no explanation as to why he's suddenly shifted his tone). It even gave Skirt pause, which surprised me.

I also mentioned how I didn't like the way he asked people to ask their teammates to read him. And yes, he did clarify that in the instances I thought he was doing that he was asking for another player, but that's not how it came across to me, hence why I even complied and had Anen check his ISO per that request. I accept I interperted those instances incorrectly. However, I still feel icky everytime I see him request a player not in this game to do something, because those players are never going to give this game their full attention... but I can buy that he might want their input for his own sake.

A50 I documented pretty well in #615. Basically, I feel Almost50 had decided to drop major scum theatre when she freaked out for no reason and voted herself, saying she should be lynched. It came completely out of nowhere, and doesn't make sense to me coming from town playing to the best of their abilities. She wasn't under any threat of a lynch, she wasn't banging her head on a wall trying to get a scumread lynched, and she wasn't being ignored. So...why does she flip out and self-vote as if those things were occurring? I know why she might do this as scum, I don't know why she would do this as town based on where the game was.

I'm less certain on Math and Almost50, so that's why I haven't moved my vote. Skirt gave me pause a bit because I genuinely felt his frustration with Bulba and I...but I don't think Transcend has done anything that makes me think 'maybe this slot is town'. Math and Almost rank mid-tier for me because they do things I have a hard time justifying to myself how town!them would decide to do them.

But like, I tend to document things over time and not in singular posts, so if you want to know something specific, just ask. I'm not hiding my reads.

I'll make a second post to address anything else directed at me. Don't want these to get too long.

[Transcend]

Fight me tbone

[Dunkerdoodles]

do you want to like tl;dr that post for me in like 2 sentences or less thx

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Mathdino

[Elena Fisher]

Math's the type of player who likes to use data and info clearly on stuff like this but he isn't using it to help town he's using it as an advantage to hide behind reads and reason's he's also acting like his opinions are facts and he tries to give this aura/tone that he will "understand" but honestly that only happens when it's convenient for him

[Dunkerdoodles]

yeah that ^

[Elena Fisher]

I'm happy with this lynch and would switch to LLD if needed I still don't really know how I feel about Key but I think Transcend is dumb town (shocker)

[Elena Fisher]

He's also shown he's very self conscious about the way people read him and sometimes that's fine but he seemed to get rubbed the wrong way that felt like annoyed scum then town scum are also much more worried how people think about them then town do.

[Radja]

Radja is solidly town

Transcend, can you explain this read? I mean, I don't feel like I did that much to warrant such a huge townread.

[Transcend]

Bud

Ur obvtown

Deal with it

[T-Bone]

do you want to like tl;dr that post for me in like 2 sentences or less thx

I think Skirt is scum, and Transcend hasn't changed that.

I think Math and Almost have done scummy things that I can't explain to myself why town might do them.

Shrug City, you can't really explain complex reads and feelings over two sentences, and I'm already on my third.

[Dunkerdoodles]

no that's what i wanted to hear, thx
vote dino w/ us?

[Mathdino]

I interacted with him heavily in the early game, because I wanted to decide for myself whether he was using his mafia-theory and meta-hunting talk as legitimate tools, or hiding behind them because when you are a meta player it is very easily to be a "meta-player" as scum. I know meta-players like to say that they can't fake it, but I don't buy it. I was leaning town early on Math actually, despite the issues that I brought up, because he was the counterweight to Skirt, who I feel is our strongest candidate for scum. Obviously, the KMD thing is where I started to think otherwise, because I felt like KMD's reads had no context in the gamestate. They looked fake to me. Finally, his 180 on tone when he decided that he could try to lynch me...makes me think that was a change of heart out of convenience, to try to get a player lynched who is giving him a hard time. That's how it looks to my eyes. If Math is scum, that explains everything. (If Math is town, then I have no explanation as to why he's suddenly shifted his tone). It even gave Skirt pause, which surprised me.

Okay dude couple things because I'm not

not

responding to this

1. I'm not a meta-player, I've never been a meta-player, I personally use meta as a weak tool that primarily helps with understanding playstyle (null-tells). My comments at the beginning of the game aren't based on other games, they're based on reading through GTKAS and shit. I did this for

every player I could dig info on

. Not all of my teammates wanted to use it, but I did in my game because that info is better than absolute nothing. Pretending to be in a no-information stage when we weren't would be completely antithetical to how I play this game.

2. I don't have anything to say if you think KMD's reads looked fake when after skimming 2 pages at 2 AM. Well actually I do:
- KMD is a MUCH better scum player than I am, it's hilarious that you think you can read my slot better off of KMD than off of me
- Since that initial "My teammate read 2 pages" post, I've posted tons of KMD/GL thoughts that you haven't responded to.

3. What 180 in tone are you talking about?

[T-Bone]

He's also shown he's very self conscious about the way people read him and sometimes that's fine but he seemed to get rubbed the wrong way that felt like annoyed scum then town scum are also much more worried how people think about them then town do.

Can you clarify who "he" is, and expand this, because I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[Bins]

I just don’t the the GL stuff is fake.
I don’t think any of his posts are fake tbh.

[Elena Fisher]

I thought I'd seen you get a bit heated up when people accuse you of bad play as town. I might not be remembering correctly, but the quote stood out.

I could be at times but I'd consider myself a rather calm person when I play on this account and take petty stuff out of it it's easy to detached yourself from a game at points and deal with standpoints like this

There's examples of me either straight asking (Bins in 613), or gauging interest in it (Transcend in 723, though he ignored it). Who's your friend reading Bins?

I clearly missed these my mistake and Dunnstral is reading bins for me (and he wants to read you for that matter)


I read the rest of Keychains post and...I don't know I don't really sr her but I don't want to call her town for...well I don't really know I just get a yucky feeling and I'm ehh on just calling her town I am enjoying our little back and forth though.

[Elena Fisher]

He's also shown he's very self conscious about the way people read him and sometimes that's fine but he seemed to get rubbed the wrong way that felt like annoyed scum then town scum are also much more worried how people think about them then town do.

Can you clarify who "he" is, and expand this, because I don't understand what you're trying to say.

he being mathdino I'll try to go find quotes

[Mathdino]

Like you guys are literally arguing that you can't see town-me using an extra tool to my advantage because you disagree with the tool's effectiveness???

Like bro after 36 pages I agree that this amount of content beats a couple meta-ideas but it's like none of the 3 of you actually ISO'd me trying to sort players beyond meta-ing people and asking for assists.

I'm not going to play this game with my hands tied behind my back.

And if the crux of your case is tonereading you're gonna have some real issues. Even moreso if you think you can toneread but also think meta is shit

[Transcend]

By the way, math is not the lynch

He's getting his hands way too dirty to be scum and the attention on him gives me over all badvibes

So cut this crap right now.

[Elena Fisher]

Spoiler: quote wall

i scumread both mathdino and a50 but im not sure if they can be s/s

Re: skirt vs LLD: I'm waffling. Gun-to-my-head I say skirt is scum and LLD is town (weirdly). I like the pressure on one or both of them, but given that I'm certainly not best for the job of picking those 2 apart, I'm using my abilities elsewhere. But yeah if I had to end the day right now I think I'd lynch skirt.

Re: UCV project: Creature hates scum. My experience with him in JK9++ was that he doesn't even pretend to be interested to the point that you can run him up and he'll roll over and die. He can't fake town-interest; he's had 1.5 years to learn how to. So I told him on page 1 to

fucking follow this game and give UCV reads

. If Creature wasn't paying attention, speedlynch. UCV delivered in a way that I can believe Creature legitimately followed the game and believed in those reads. Unfortunately UCV spent a good deal of time dodging/misinterpreting my question. Which is classic UCV.

Re: Meta being helpful: Oh I agree, only a couple of my reads are based on choose-your-side-based meta. But that discussion transitioned into people basing reads based on how much OTHER people liked meta early on

Re: skirt: Honestly I don't know. Getting a lot of conflicting reads on skirt from players I trust. My team seems to base a lot of their reads on whether or not people are trying to pocket me (I can't wait to see what they think of A50 these past few pages, lol). I'm not so sure. But I do know he's a good scum player, LLD is towning it way up, and LLD's case on him is pretty convincing.

Re: A50 viability: I'm not gonna answer this right now unless I actually have to defend A50 from the lynch. Tbh I'm still working on this problem with my team.

Edit: lol Dunker can't read me to save his life

there are blatant contradictions in his posts, he's exaggerating things to make them seem in his favor, he's manipulating and his posts are very open ended
(such as in that post "i'm slowly starting to like a CDB wagon" is very open ended, he could justify a townread or a scumread"

wattt
1. You've pointed out "contradictions" in things that have literally just been me changing my mind. You don't seem to understand that my early reads mean fuck-all to me late-D1.

2. What does "in my favor" mean?

3. Who am I manipulating? The hilarious thing is multiple people are accusing others of trying to manipulate ME

4. Uh, no, I'm pretty sure that's a "I'm feeling iffy about this guy and I'm lowkey scumreading him but would like to sort him better".

Dunker what I fail to understand is why you never just ask questions or ask for clarifications when you straight don't understand what someone's doing. Literally anything you want me to expand on, I can do it. I just don't feel like walling it up with every single post I make.

And no shit my posts are open-ended, I have no idea who the hell is scum this game. I don't usually play with people of this caliber.

You really don't get me as a player, do you?

1. You're not even reading. My EARLY reads mean nothing. As in literally my first 2 reads lists in almost every game are bullshitted. I do this to create a record of my trajectory and so I can get into arguments with people and generate discussion. But those reads are often completely different from my LATE DAY ONE reads. My reads RIGHT NOW mean something. Just not the ones on PAGE 2.

2. I don't even know how to respond to that.

3. I generally subscribe to the mastina school of scumhunting, just with massive differences in style. That is, I have no problem with driving an agenda to sort people better. But honestly if you think "people pushing their agenda" is scummy you're gonna have a rough go at this event. God help you if you're reading the other games

4. Floating the idea. CDB is a rough player to read, and my gut says to townread him because of that playstyle that I've seen him use before (it's NAI). Part of it is PoE. But I'm not gonna "wagon" a player by myself.

5. My content quality is fine. If it wasn't, my teammates would've given me shit for it already, since we agreed to keep each other's bad reads/ideas in check. Your understanding of my content, however, is not fine.

Edit: oh shit you're right, I had that thought but completely forgot it

I have literally never played with you before. You opened guns blazing on me as if you had.

What game do you think I was referring to?

@math

the problem here is the sentance "you're misunderstanding my content"

like dude, i can read for myself. i'm reading your content. i don't like your content. i don't see why it's such a big deal.
no one else is scumreading you. why do you have a problem with me scumreading you?

i'm just some noobb right? my reads don't matter cause i'm bad? this is what im getting from that last post, yet you still find the need to pick apart every bit of my post and tell me why it's bad. the funniest part of it all?
you're not even scumreading me

you see where the contradictions come in. you're think my posts are bad, yet im you don't scumread me. you say my read is bad and irrelevant, yet you defend yourself from my points.

Because in the last game I played with you you posted a bunch of votals and numbers things to look townie. You flipped scum.

I have no fucking clue. I've flipped scum once in my entire history. I've survived as scum two other times.

I'm pretty sure I'd remember you given that you joined last September.

He's just very aggro on anyone that talks against him and buddies anyone who agrees with him (I talked about this before) and I dislike his reactions to the little bit of pressure he's got.

[Elena Fisher]

By the way, math is not the lynch

He's getting his hands way too dirty to be scum

and the attention on him gives me over all badvibes

So cut this crap right now.

Stop right there you're better than that (I thought)

[Radja]

Bud

Ur obvtown

Deal with it

That doesn't answer my question. Can you just tell me why so I don't have to be paranoid about you?

[Transcend]

Muscle memory dude

I'm not home I've literally made every single post in this game on my phone