Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Sauce]

Ok, let's unite forces, Liquety.
VOTE: Chill

Meanwhile you can figure out why even though ppl expressed sympathy with my attacks on you the same ppl don't hesitate to follow your vote on Chill as opposed to helping me attack Cogito.

[LicketyQuickety]

And I know why people are Scum reading me. I think Lycan hit on this point and so did Postie a bit.

It's because people are interpreting my play as "mechanical" and for some reason they thing this means I am Scum. Instead, I would say I am trying to play in a logical way with a big picture outlook on the game. That means I am not going to get into specifics of relating what Player X did at point A and compare that to what Player Y did at Point B. I have never played that way so if people expect me to play that way, I am sorry to say that they will be disappointed. How I play is looking at posts in isolation and seeing if they are internally logical insofar of what I know to be logical comparing this to what I think is the correct way to play. I sometimes compare a post they made somewhat recently to what they are saying, but I am not going to remember something that someone said on page 5 at this point. I will, however, ISO players occasionally and I will usually do this if someone asks me to.

The problem I am having with the SRs on me is that there isn't much probing from players who are Scum reading me. Some players are doing this, but most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game and Lycan asking me why I had a change in perspective on Marquis reads list. Shea has probably been the person who has looked like they have tried to sort me the most, but I am not going to TR him just solely on that fact.

It seems that I am a player who people seem somewhat polarized on. Given this, It might actually benefit Town if I am lynched, but then that takes away all my power to have an influence on the game based on my play and I think I can give Town a better chance at winning if I am not lynched. That said, if people remain to have polarizing views of me, then it's likely I will be able to stay in the game for a while because Scum will not NK someone they think they might be able to lynch. Given this, it puts a lot of pressure on me for my reads to be good and to produce good content. Most of this pressure is self induced because last time I survived to end game I used a method to try and solve the game that I put too much trust in and it ended up with me having a few of bad reads so I don't want to have another poor performance where I survive to late game to have a poor influence on helping my team win the game.

I think this game has become too lopsided. Lots of people voting a single lurker for being a lurker (Marquis) with most people on the wagon having little demonstrated reason for being there. Then you have most of the active players who are fighting amongst themselves mostly and a lot of people who have very little content who are getting by with not doing a whole lot of anything. The state of the game isn't a good one for Town currently - especially considering that a lot of people have expressed that they are Scum read me, whom I consider myself to generally be a Town leader when I am Town. I cannot yet tell who or how many Scum players are going to try and actively push my lynch, but there will most certainly be Scum on my lynch if it happens, so look at those on my wagon upon my lynch.

Now you might be thinking I am viewing this as a somewhat self depreciating way. This is not something that is based on nothing. My ratio for how good of a player I am compared to how often I get lynched D1 is probably astronomically high. Just something to keep in mind. Also, most of you I have not played with much (if at all) so you don't know that I highly highly prefer playing Town over Scum. I almost always get lynched as Scum and I have a very difficult time faking the same kind of fervor as Scum as I do as Town. If you were to look at Realeo's ELO data that he did back in 2016 (I think), you will see that I am a very good Town player and a very lousy Scum player. To put this into numbers, I was in the top 3% for Town players and the bottom 16% for Scum players. So naturally if this data is any indication of what alignment I would prefer, it should be pretty damn obvious.

[Thestatusquo]

And I know why people are Scum reading me. I think Lycan hit on this point and so did Postie a bit.

It's because people are interpreting my play as "mechanical" and for some reason they thing this means I am Scum. Instead, I would say I am trying to play in a logical way with a big picture outlook on the game. That means I am not going to get into specifics of relating what Player X did at point A and compare that to what Player Y did at Point B. I have never played that way so if people expect me to play that way, I am sorry to say that they will be disappointed. How I play is looking at posts in isolation and seeing if they are internally logical insofar of what I know to be logical comparing this to what I think is the correct way to play. I sometimes compare a post they made somewhat recently to what they are saying, but I am not going to remember something that someone said on page 5 at this point. I will, however, ISO players occasionally and I will usually do this if someone asks me to.

I don't think your summary up there is even remotely responsive to why I am scum reading you. I don't give a damn if you play mechanically or not. I laid out in detail why I think you're scummy, and its mainly because I don't actually see you doing the thing you say you're doing here. I see you starting conversations and interactions with people and then trying to gauge town reactions to those things and disengaging with the pokes as soon as its clear people aren't going to start voting the person. Like, I have no doubt you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

The problem I am having with the SRs on me is that there isn't much probing from players who are Scum reading me. Some players are doing this, but most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game and Lycan asking me why I had a change in perspective on Marquis reads list. Shea has probably been the person who has looked like they have tried to sort me the most, but I am not going to TR him just solely on that fact.

Do you think the methods others are using on you are ineffective or disingenuous? These are different claims, and I think one might be true, but also I don't think its the one you're claiming.

I think this game has become too lopsided. Lots of people voting a single lurker for being a lurker (Marquis) with most people on the wagon having little demonstrated reason for being there. Then you have most of the active players who are fighting amongst themselves mostly and a lot of people who have very little content who are getting by with not doing a whole lot of anything. The state of the game isn't a good one for Town currently - especially considering that a lot of people have expressed that they are Scum read me, whom I consider myself to generally be a Town leader when I am Town. I cannot yet tell who or how many Scum players are going to try and actively push my lynch, but there will most certainly be Scum on my lynch if it happens, so look at those on my wagon upon my lynch.

Homie you were literally voting for that lurker ONE PAGE AGO. With NO EXPLANATION YOURSELF. Literal naked vote. Then you jumped on another wagon without demonstrating or explaining any sort of scum read there. WHY are you voting TChill? WHY did you vote marquis? People aren't scum reading you because you're mechanical, they're scum reading you because you don't seem to care who is lynched and because you're not telling us what your reads are and not explaining them. In the absence of information, what the hell else am I supposed to think?

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.14

Tchill13(4)

~ Llamarble, Thestatusquo, LicketyQuickety, Sauce

Marquis(3)

~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dunnstral

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ EddieFenix, ActionDan

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, northsidegal

Postie(1)

~ Tchill13

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

EddieFenix(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

MOD Notes

wguerts is being prodded. The user has 24 hours to make a content post or be force replaced.

[Postie]

most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game

How about you give me an answer for this and then afterwards I can actually explain why it's relevant to sorting you.

[LicketyQuickety]

And I know why people are Scum reading me. I think Lycan hit on this point and so did Postie a bit.

It's because people are interpreting my play as "mechanical" and for some reason they thing this means I am Scum. Instead, I would say I am trying to play in a logical way with a big picture outlook on the game. That means I am not going to get into specifics of relating what Player X did at point A and compare that to what Player Y did at Point B. I have never played that way so if people expect me to play that way, I am sorry to say that they will be disappointed. How I play is looking at posts in isolation and seeing if they are internally logical insofar of what I know to be logical comparing this to what I think is the correct way to play. I sometimes compare a post they made somewhat recently to what they are saying, but I am not going to remember something that someone said on page 5 at this point. I will, however, ISO players occasionally and I will usually do this if someone asks me to.

I don't think your summary up there is even remotely responsive to why I am scum reading you. I don't give a damn if you play mechanically or not. I laid out in detail why I think you're scummy, and its mainly because I don't actually see you doing the thing you say you're doing here. I see you starting conversations and interactions with people and then trying to gauge town reactions to those things and disengaging with the pokes as soon as its clear people aren't going to start voting the person. Like, I have no doubt you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

You have NO DOUBT. Is what you are saying... Do you see why this is a problem? Town ALWAYS has an element of doubt. So either you are Scum, or you are trying to read me making assumptions about my play that you have not idea about. Also, you are basically assuming that I should OMGUS you in that spot. Also, what you describe as me "dropping" a point of interest is perfectly in line with my Town play. I have talked about this before, but I am not good at Town because I actually have any ability to solve the game, but rather that I take perspectives that don't often occur which produces content that would otherwise not be in the game. So what you are assuming here is that I would follow up to make a conclusion about what I had pushed earlier, but that is not really the way I play. I just keep taking different angles on things all game long without really looking at what the results of what I am pressing is later in the game. I even highlighted this basic concept when I said I wasn't someone who was going to look at what Player X does at point A and compare that to what Player Y does at point B.

In short, your Scum read on me is based on an assumption about how I play and how I approach the game, which you do not provide the evidence for that I do operate this way.

The problem I am having with the SRs on me is that there isn't much probing from players who are Scum reading me. Some players are doing this, but most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game and Lycan asking me why I had a change in perspective on Marquis reads list. Shea has probably been the person who has looked like they have tried to sort me the most, but I am not going to TR him just solely on that fact.

Do you think the methods others are using on you are ineffective or disingenuous? These are different claims, and I think one might be true, but also I don't think its the one you're claiming.[/quote]

I don't see how I could have any way to answer this without knowing the alignments of the people who are coming at it from the angles they are. There is motivation for both to be true, so I can't definitively say that it's one or the other. For one person it could be that they are ineffective in trying to sort me and another person might be disingenuous. Since I think it's pretty much equally possible for both given I am someone who people generally do not understand too well in a setting like this, which would mean people's methods to sort me are not a good litmus test to tell if I am Town or Scum because they are trying to measure the wrong things, it makes things extremely complicated and I generally don't like to go neck deep in details to deduce who is telling the truth and who is not. I prefer to work intuitively and this is in large part why I am so hard for people to understand at times.

I think this game has become too lopsided. Lots of people voting a single lurker for being a lurker (Marquis) with most people on the wagon having little demonstrated reason for being there. Then you have most of the active players who are fighting amongst themselves mostly and a lot of people who have very little content who are getting by with not doing a whole lot of anything. The state of the game isn't a good one for Town currently - especially considering that a lot of people have expressed that they are Scum read me, whom I consider myself to generally be a Town leader when I am Town. I cannot yet tell who or how many Scum players are going to try and actively push my lynch, but there will most certainly be Scum on my lynch if it happens, so look at those on my wagon upon my lynch.

Homie you were literally voting for that lurker ONE PAGE AGO. With NO EXPLANATION YOURSELF. Literal naked vote. Then you jumped on another wagon without demonstrating or explaining any sort of scum read there. WHY are you voting TChill? WHY did you vote marquis? People aren't scum reading you because you're mechanical, they're scum reading you because you don't seem to care who is lynched and because you're not telling us what your reads are and not explaining them. In the absence of information, what the hell else am I supposed to think?[/quote]

I thought I provided a fine conclusion for voting Marquis. I'd say I gave more reason for being there than anyone else even. I did give a naked vote, but I then later gave a pretty detailed explanation why I thought it was a good idea to push Marquis. I'm willing to go back there if Marquis doesn't end up doing anything but right now I want to press Chill because I have found his reasoning lacking for the reads he has.

And I think you are projecting an awful lot here. Lycan explicitly stated that he thought I was playing mechanical and that was the basis for his SR on me. Postie has also said similar things stating that Postie expected more from me insofar as I am not as forceful or chaotic that RC expects me to play. Llama really has yet to state a reason for why I am Scum, so you are just assuming you know the reason that Llama is SRing me. Who does that leave? Marquis? Marquis is not much more than an OMGUS. She still has yet to address what I asked them to do to get involved in the game. Who else does that leave? IDEK who else is Scum reading me, but a lot of people are strongly TRing me as well. So what do you make of those players? Are they all my Teammates trying to cover for my ass? What's your theory for why People are so polarized on me?

[Thestatusquo]

I think the answer to that question is very relevant fwiw. For I assume the same reasons postie has.

[Thestatusquo]

I never said I have no doubt? Mafia is a probabilistic game. Of course there are other reasons you could be doing what you're doing, but I don't think they're the most likely ones.

You claiming that somehow me thinking you're scum means I am doubtless and have your role PM in my hand is a bizarre response. I'm not even voting you, I don't know how you could possibly spin that as utter certainty. I'm just scum reading you.

[LicketyQuickety]

most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game

How about you give me an answer for this and then afterwards I can actually explain why it's relevant to sorting you.

You are using a lot of language that I don't expect Postie to actually use. I almost think what you are saying is extremely scripted. Any truth to that at all?

I haven't commented on this yet because I haven't got much of an answer from Mulch or Creature yet. The most I got, and how the conversation went was, I mentioned Mulch and Creature in the game related discord channel and asked them to give me some reads. I only got a reply from Mulch that said he wasn't following the game. So I asked him to ISO Marquis and Lycan and give a read on them. All I got out of him was that he Town read Marquis based on gut. That is all I got from that. Yes, I am pretty much playing this game by myself, so if you actually want to sort me instead of trying to fish for information on my Team, that would be great.

[Thestatusquo]

And I think you are projecting an awful lot here. Lycan explicitly stated that he thought I was playing mechanical and that was the basis for his SR on me. Postie has also said similar things stating that Postie expected more from me insofar as I am not as forceful or chaotic that RC expects me to play. Llama really has yet to state a reason for why I am Scum, so you are just assuming you know the reason that Llama is SRing me. Who does that leave? Marquis? Marquis is not much more than an OMGUS. She still has yet to address what I asked them to do to get involved in the game. Who else does that leave? IDEK who else is Scum reading me, but a lot of people are strongly TRing me as well. So what do you make of those players? Are they all my Teammates trying to cover for my ass? What's your theory for why People are so polarized on me?

My reasons for voting you don't have anything to do with why others are voting you. Please stop responding to posties reasons or lycans reasons. It DOES help that I am TRing both of those people.

I honestly don't even understand this point. You have played enough mafia to know that there is almost never full consensus on a lynch, regardless of alignment. Indeed, frequently the players who its the hardest to reach consensus on are scum because of buddying.

[Thestatusquo]

*Scum reading you, I should say.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like,

I have no doubt

you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

The fuck are you talking about shea.

[Thestatusquo]

*Defending, not buddying. Why can't I type. This is what happens when I stay up til 3am watching survivor.

[Thestatusquo]

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

[LicketyQuickety]

And I think you are projecting an awful lot here. Lycan explicitly stated that he thought I was playing mechanical and that was the basis for his SR on me. Postie has also said similar things stating that Postie expected more from me insofar as I am not as forceful or chaotic that RC expects me to play. Llama really has yet to state a reason for why I am Scum, so you are just assuming you know the reason that Llama is SRing me. Who does that leave? Marquis? Marquis is not much more than an OMGUS. She still has yet to address what I asked them to do to get involved in the game. Who else does that leave? IDEK who else is Scum reading me, but a lot of people are strongly TRing me as well. So what do you make of those players? Are they all my Teammates trying to cover for my ass? What's your theory for why People are so polarized on me?

My reasons for voting you don't have anything to do with why others are voting you. Please stop responding to posties reasons or lycans reasons. It DOES help that I am TRing both of those people.

I honestly don't even understand this point. You have played enough mafia to know that there is almost never full consensus on a lynch, regardless of alignment. Indeed, frequently the players who its the hardest to reach consensus on are scum because of buddying.

People aren't scum reading you because you're mechanical, they're scum reading you because you don't seem to care who is lynched and because you're not telling us what your reads are and not explaining them. In the absence of information, what the hell else am I supposed to think?

Here you imply there is a consensus on why people are SRing me.

Honestly, what is going through my head at this point is I am wondering if you are playing a slayers gambit, because this is just too easy at this point.

[LicketyQuickety]

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

You're acting sloppy and uninspired. This is a cakewalk if you are Scum but I almost think this is too easy. Do you want me to vote you instead of Chill or something?

[Thestatusquo]

So I went from the person who is "most trying to sort you" to the person who is "too easy" as scum in your eyes? And that corresponds directly with me pushing you more aggressively?

K.

I don't want to let chilly lurk out from under this wagon, but also I think this needs rope.

[LicketyQuickety]

So I went from the person who is "most trying to sort you" to the person who is "too easy" as scum in your eyes? And that corresponds directly with me pushing you more aggressively?

K.

I don't want to let chilly lurk out from under this wagon, but also I think this needs rope.

I've caught you with 3 blatant contradictions. The pressure I am feeling right now because of your push is laughable. I mean, you can't even create a consistent argument for fucks sake.

[Thestatusquo]

Nothing you just posted is a contradiction outside of you blatantly misrepresenting what I'm saying.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, ok...

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: tsq

[Thestatusquo]

[Sauce]

VOTE: TSQ

[Thestatusquo]

JK, still happy voting chill or LQ. The fact that LQ found his way off the chill wagon onto me just when it was gaining steam is a good data point also.

GTFO me sauce.

[Sauce]

The sauce is

strong

sticky with you