Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Thestatusquo]

I really can't be mad at that in all honesty.

[LicketyQuickety]

JK, still happy voting chill or LQ. The fact that LQ found his way off the chill wagon onto me just when it was gaining steam is a good data point also.

GTFO me sauce.

Oh, I am fully willing to go back to Chill, no need to worry there

[Gamma Emerald]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Do you want me to follow up, and if so how?

[Gamma Emerald]

llamarble aggressively null

this was more my wording but to clarify, it was more pre/early game: skrew said llama probably picked this game because he's known as a good classic scumhunter, which i thought meant was a town lean, but clarified he didn't know how to read him/meta and just knew him. it was more of a reputation based "oh it's obvious he'd pick this" wifom thing. so back and forth with reasons on both

personally i was relying on that for a short while because i'm really really aggressively bad at reading that whole set of older classic-ish players who i don't know well? if that makes sense? idk
it's probably more of an intimidation and paranoia thing more than anything else that makes me want to default scumread them because they'll always be able to pull one over me

This makes sense and is honestly kinda something I like based on the angle being used

[Gamma Emerald]

sidenote i feel like it's weird that i'm not obviously town rn? like in the least egotistical way possible (if that's even possible but u know what i mean.) not because my play has been a shining beacon of towniness but because i'm usually left alone on d1. it might be because this is the first game i've purposely joined in a long time that i'm not in with someone i have a history of ez townbloc-ing with but it also kind of makes me feel like there's some kind of agenda because otherwise i'm not a typical textbook town player.

Marquis(4) ~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

like looking at the votes on me gun to my head i'd bare minimum pick lickety as the scum agenda one but that's because i've been seeing mediumlong post after mediumlong post and i know he has the capability to play this way as scum which makes me wary, as well as being opportunistic at the same time while not

too

obvious about it. but i'm still concerned that's too meta oriented as opposed to his actual play here which i haven't had the chance to really read in real time.

idk i kind of expected it to be easier than this? in the selfish way. going for the game with lynch one two scum and done while floating. need more real time reading so i'll read while at work then?

i think this turned out into me admitting i don't currently have any value to bring to town other than that i'm a warm town body who when further heated up becomes a potentially delicious roasted tomato full of juicy squirty accuracy. again in the least egotistical way possible.

i also feel like i'm talking past people but that's my fault. this wasn't the most productive stream of consciousness moment bc my dumb ass decided to start it without even attempting to full read but i'll post it anyway.

god i really need to read

pls don't vote me more i'll def have more time friday bc i dont have a nightlife still

Another post I like, this one seems to have towniness in the prose it uses

[Gamma Emerald]

hold up not voting. gonna read.

I guess good job LQ on getting them in the game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald:

Spoiler:

The mastina mention feels like Appeal to Authority tbh, making it seem that he has more sway by having a powerful teammate
I'd ask why Marq is null but enough people felt that way that I don't really care because it's not an interesting opinion.
side note: are you saying Miles is a bad guy buckaroo?

For this one, it was a response to the question in meme form because I figured it would definitely get a laugh from Mastina, and I know it got one from Bulb when he read it. Not appealing to authority, mainly meme'n just to meme.

Side Note Answer: Also, no, Miles is one of my favorite characters from the series (bad guy turned good guy and case 5 from game 1 was damn amazing!). I only switched to Rexxar because I'm actively hunting for scum this game. So, hunter and pun rolled into one. I'm a dork, sue me

Addressing this here: Why didn't you feel this way about Dunnstral's vote earlier?

The First Postie vote (303) or the First Marquis vote (29)? The first Marquis vote, because it was so early on, I honestly glazed over the person who voted. Which is bad form on my part, cause I immediately noticed Lycan's vote and latched onto needing a reasoning for it once I was deeper in.

I get why he let someone else comment first here: see if anyone else is thinking like they do, and whoever does gets townpoints for mirroring.

Nope! No town points were awarded for that. NSG was already in my "active" town pool before that. If anything, it lets me know who is at least paying attention to the game and is actively going, "heyyyyy wait a minute, somethin fishy here."

What do you mean at the beginning of the game?

As soon as our threads opened at midnight for the games, Mastina was going ham and dropping quotes in our team thread then went to bed.

How would you like it brought to discussion? This question feels very lacking in definition

You have someone making a statement that Tchill seems town. Then an immediate "shade" throw. And then the immediate counter to the shade throw. So, if you look at it from an "incredibly co-ordinated dumbass blind townie idea/theory" mentality: 1 person trying to confirm the person as town, 1 person trying to "throw shade" at that person for their attempt at trying to confirm said person as town with "no knowledge of said player", then 1 person trying to defuse the situation entirely not just 3 posts later, and then my ass coming in and going, YEAH. Bring this to discussion cause I'm aware of Tchill enjoying playing scum, so why won't someone discuss this ideal further where his meta is concerned? Yet... It looks as if I pissed into the wind at this point cause no one touched the topic of TChill's meta after I said something about it. So, for me right now, this could come from a co-ordinated scum team of Tchill, LQ, and Marble (which wouldn't be out of the question as of this post now that I think about it. Update: I'm fully caught up now and it's something that I am going to rattle around in my head now because the dots

kinda

connect now that I sat here and talked it out).

What do you think will come of a larger wagon on me? I used to be incitable with large wagons but I feel like that tendency has died in me

Pressure to see if you crumble and it also potentially brings the scum out of the woodwork in an attempt to hammer if they're trying to lurk out and pounce when opportunity is within grasp.

As for TChill being scummy, does that mean you think Postie is town based on TChill having voteparked her?

Postie is growing on me with their use of the book terms that I have to refresh myself on every time there's a term that comes up that makes me go "what was that again?!" (IIoA being a perfect example) As well as taking the task to try and figure out the game and even taking ME to task for that matter. However, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ReF-nlrQAY I feel the need to point Postie in that direction when it comes to dealing with me. I'm an emotional wild card. I can one second be town reading you, then switch because something pinged me and I go, nahhhhh gonna gun for that (see above for example).

I don't get the exact message of this, but my guess is he's upset about TSQ rushing things. What's the issue with that?

I complimented them for their approach because of them being aggressive, but also want to remind them that we could very well be here awhile before the first lynch comes in/down.

Thanks for explaining the teammate thing, and also thanks for indulging my silliness.
The Marquis vote in 39. And yeah I feel that, I had my own goof with looking at that vote -snatches logic stick, smacks self with it, and hands it back-.
Still dig the mindset.
That makes sense, I thought there was something fishy but it was just mastina tryharding
I'll work on that TChill meta when I review him, cos I've been suspecting him and I want to put him under the microscope.
Alright. Just gonna give you a note that hammer is at 8 votes. Also, given the fact scum only has one lynch they can withstand, I doubt they'd quickhammer.
So you don't read her as town based on the wagonomics there but for other reasons? Okay.
Aha. Just telling them to be patient, I see.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, let's unite forces, Liquety.
VOTE: Chill

Meanwhile you can figure out why even though ppl expressed sympathy with my attacks on you the same ppl don't hesitate to follow your vote on Chill as opposed to helping me attack Cogito.

I think this is kinda suffering from the same problem I believe it is noting: if you are asking the question you are why are you okay voting TChill? Shouldn't you have an issue with some of the voters? Or am I interpreting the question wrong?

[Llamarble]

VOTE: TSQ

Can you explain to me how this happened? It makes so little sense to me that I actually laughed.
Normally getting in a fight makes even scum look a little townier, but LQ just went flat on his scum face.
Like, he tries to claim "No doubt you would've voted me if others did" is scummy because it doesn't show doubt. But it's about a PREDICTION of BEHAVIOR, not alignment. Way to rely on the kinds of words people see as legitimate while pointing them at something they clearly don't apply to.
His defense is a pile of information over analysis, most of it wholly irrelevant. Aw yay, LQ doesn't like that I often solve games holistically and care about interactions and teams D1. It works for me, and I've been successful. You may prefer something else. Fine. We have now wasted time.

The problem I am having with the SRs on me is that there isn't much probing from players who are Scum reading me. Some players are doing this, but most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game and Lycan asking me why I had a change in perspective on Marquis reads list. Shea has probably been the person who has looked like they have tried to sort me the most, but I am not going to TR him just solely on that fact.

The reasons people find you scummy aren't the tells you anticipated? The horror! Oh and the guy making genuine effort to read you (and the rest of the game) is scum, because that follows.

Then there's some nice (exactly the kind of stuff I happily spam as scum) discussion of personal history and gamestate.

Feeling really good about LQ scum now.
VOTE: LQ
Tchill is still scum too. But like, not as LOLblatantly.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh yeah, noticing that part of LQ's 476, I call BS, TSQ has been engaging the whole time

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Like, he tries to claim "No doubt you would've voted me if others did" is scummy because it doesn't show doubt. But it's about a PREDICTION of BEHAVIOR, not alignment. Way to rely on the kinds of words people see as legitimate while pointing them at something they clearly don't apply to.

I think in the context of what Shea said and the general "talking past each other"ness of that whole conversation, it doesn't strike me as weird for Lickitung to have interpreted the prediction as being based on alignment, even if on a literal level it dealt with behaviour.

[Llamarble]

On top of not referring to alignment, it's also not an example of excessive certainty in general.
Excessive certainty is when someone plays like they KNOW they have the answer.
Using the words 'no doubt' is a normal way to express confidence. The words themselves aren't the too sure tell.
But LQ saw a buzzword and jumped on it as something he could talk about.

[LicketyQuickety]

On top of not referring to alignment, it's also not an example of excessive certainty in general.
Excessive certainty is when someone plays like they KNOW they have the answer.
Using the words 'no doubt' is a normal way to express confidence. The words themselves aren't the too sure tell.
But LQ saw a buzzword and jumped on it as something he could talk about.

That's dumb, you're dumb.

You are basically saying "well, he said he had no doubt, but he didn't actually mean he had no doubt." Can you not see how stupid that is?

[Thestatusquo]

Join http://www.GBmafia.com today it's a great online rpg mafia website its just opemed.

VOTE: RyanNdgb

[Llamarble]

It's almost as though context matters to the meaning of words, or something.

[Thestatusquo]

Oh fuck we're on a bot votecounter tho. VOTE: tchill

[Llamarble]

I'm currently on LQ + Tchill + CES.
The triple ISO is very pretty. It works.
AD can be first alternate for now, though I haven't looked at his posts in a little while.

[LicketyQuickety]

It's almost as though context matters to the meaning of words, or something.

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

TSQ basically stated that he had no doubt that I was Scum. The ONLY other explanation that TSQ can have is that he was saying he misunderstood my motive as Town and thought I would have voted a high BW as Town there and I am not buying that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

On top of not referring to alignment, it's also not an example of excessive certainty in general.
Excessive certainty is when someone plays like they KNOW they have the answer.
Using the words 'no doubt' is a normal way to express confidence. The words themselves aren't the too sure tell.
But LQ saw a buzzword and jumped on it as something he could talk about.

It seemed like standard Shea-style "make an inference and pretend it's the rock solid truth" certainty to me.

I'm currently on LQ + Tchill + CES.
The triple ISO is very pretty. It works.
AD can be first alternate for now, though I haven't looked at his posts in a little while.

We're not really having the helpful conversations I was hoping to have, are we. Did you even follow up on my hint?

[MathBlade]

Join http://www.GBmafia.com today it's a great online rpg mafia website its just opemed.

VOTE: RyanNdgb

I have overrides for shit like this where it’s clearly not an intended vote but I won’t be home until tonight to enter it in. Just don’t abuse it as typing in votes by hand is annoying as it isn’t a nickname for a player so it isn’t as easy as a nickname.

[ActionDan]

@Dan 374: I don't think I'm gonna vote Sauce at least for right now based on my current feelings about him and having other people I'm considering before then.

What are these current feelings? Actually I'd like you to detail your feelings at 3 points in time: 105, 231, and right now.

Dunnstral, you have said Postie "leans back" when referencing her teammates opinions, but I neither see it as a crutch nor do I see any opinion of hers being deferred to her teammate's separate opinions (they seem to share many). Similarly, why if someone like RC is taking a large amount of interest in this game, would it be scummy to utilize and showcase his opinion?

Nobody has pushed her for her opinions, though

If RC was on a team with scum postie I'd expect him to be guiding her

What rubs me the wrong way is that she was constantly referring to her team which I felt was towny at first but realized would be happening if she was scum too

Although I don't see the relevance, people were pushing Postie earlier in the game for her opinions, with the word "forced" being used by me and NSG. (if you instead meant, "no one has asked Postie for her opinions," I also don't understand the relevance of this)

The next two sentences are explicitly NAI, but previously they were both explicitly used to get a scum read on Postie, the strength of which does not equate to the sentiments expressed here.

Furthermore I don't see why you'd vote hop to Marquis when as far as I can tell you have not expressed any reason to jump off of Postie here.

---

I'm willing to call Lycan's 430 town. I understand a couple of reservations people have with it, (6 scum reads, CES not being mentioned etc.) but it looks, feels, and has meaty arguments that flow and read town.

LQ still looks town to me. Lots of posts I've glossed over admittedly and I probably could use to recheck my read there, but I don't see the scummitude others do.

None of Marquis' recent posts look to me as anything other than null, and certainly not giving me town vibes for the language, emotion or any content within as suggested by Gamma. In fact the time spent making those posts could have been used to read the thread, as I'm sure Marquis is aware.

Tchill lack of anything not Postie related after he thought certain posts of hers looked townie is now a concern of mine. That said recognizing that at least some of her posts have merit to them is an encouraging sign and I maintain previous to that his thought processes didn't strike me as particularly scummy.

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce. I trust that he does, but I'm baffled and can't respect it. I continue to see nothing of value from that slot, and I find it's voting patterns incomprehensible.

[Llamarble]

It's almost as though context matters to the meaning of words, or something.

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

TSQ basically stated that he had no doubt that I was Scum.

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

The ONLY other explanation that TSQ can have is that he was saying he misunderstood my motive as Town and thought I would have voted a high BW as Town there and I am not buying that.

I see you starting conversations and interactions with people and then trying to gauge town reactions to those things and disengaging with the pokes as soon as its clear people aren't going to start voting the person.

Like, I have no doubt you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

Shea found the bolded scummy. Based on this behavior, he predicted you'd have voted for him if others had.
It doesn't matter at all if he said "Like, I am confident you would have" or "I'm sure you'd have" or "I think you'd have."
He's using an idiomatic expression to confidently express his analysis of your behavior.
He's not going "HERPADERPA LYNCH LQ 100% COOKIES AWAIT I GUARANTEEE MAKE IT DIE 1V1 AHAHAHAHAHA"

You saw the words "no doubt" and thought "ooh, too-sure-tell, free content" and wrote posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dan 374: I don't think I'm gonna vote Sauce at least for right now based on my current feelings about him and having other people I'm considering before then.

What are these current feelings? Actually I'd like you to detail your feelings at 3 points in time: 105, 231, and right now.

Dunnstral, you have said Postie "leans back" when referencing her teammates opinions, but I neither see it as a crutch nor do I see any opinion of hers being deferred to her teammate's separate opinions (they seem to share many). Similarly, why if someone like RC is taking a large amount of interest in this game, would it be scummy to utilize and showcase his opinion?

Nobody has pushed her for her opinions, though

If RC was on a team with scum postie I'd expect him to be guiding her

What rubs me the wrong way is that she was constantly referring to her team which I felt was towny at first but realized would be happening if she was scum too

Although I don't see the relevance, people were pushing Postie earlier in the game for her opinions, with the word "forced" being used by me and NSG. (if you instead meant, "no one has asked Postie for her opinions," I also don't understand the relevance of this)

The next two sentences are explicitly NAI, but previously they were both explicitly used to get a scum read on Postie, the strength of which does not equate to the sentiments expressed here.

Furthermore I don't see why you'd vote hop to Marquis when as far as I can tell you have not expressed any reason to jump off of Postie here.

---

I'm willing to call Lycan's 430 town. I understand a couple of reservations people have with it, (6 scum reads, CES not being mentioned etc.) but it looks, feels, and has meaty arguments that flow and read town.

LQ still looks town to me. Lots of posts I've glossed over admittedly and I probably could use to recheck my read there, but I don't see the scummitude others do.

None of Marquis' recent posts look to me as anything other than null, and certainly not giving me town vibes for the language, emotion or any content within as suggested by Gamma. In fact the time spent making those posts could have been used to read the thread, as I'm sure Marquis is aware.

Tchill lack of anything not Postie related after he thought certain posts of hers looked townie is now a concern of mine. That said recognizing that at least some of her posts have merit to them is an encouraging sign and I maintain previous to that his thought processes didn't strike me as particularly scummy.

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce. I trust that he does, but I'm baffled and can't respect it. I continue to see nothing of value from that slot, and I find it's voting patterns incomprehensible.

These feelings are that I feel like there's some town value to his posts. I have questioned him though.
And wrt Marquis I got those reads based off tone so it's probable that you didn't read it the same way

[ActionDan]

You've questioned Sauce? Where? Could you explicitly link the posts (using URLs, not quoting the whole thing) where you see town value with an accompanying explanation as to why.

[ActionDan]

Also even reading for tone in Marquis post alone it's self-deprecating here and there but that's not AI. I really just don't see anything that you could determine one way or the other