Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[chesskid3]

If you two are doing anything, you're making your reads and thoughts less reliable because you appear so biased and egotistical. And don't start pointing fingers at each other. Don't respond to this post. Just chill.

If you haven't noticed I havent been responding to RC in thread for a lot of pages. I've proposed a number of plans that will break the game open and I just need consensus reached on any of them.

guiltylion lynch is fine as long as the hider is on RC

regardless

of flip. That hider could be me or could not it doesnt matter. Just need that commitment

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't believe that it's at all difficult for GL to fake a competent readslist
I don't think that any of the stuff I like from him is outside of his scumrange and I think that the stuff that I don't like matters a lot.

The feeling I get from his posts on the last game is that his primary goal is to discredit my read on him and wait for the wagon to disappear, especially with how much he discredited my read by accusing me of making stuff up, being manipulative, etc. which actually isn't something that I would expect from him as either alignment, since unless something has changed he has always indicated a high level of respect for my play, but I think there's clear scum motivation for what he's doing

also just feel like the four things I keep quoting are very scummy

what is this? It's not my job to towntell to you, it's my job to sort other players and your job to read me correctly. I can already feel you pushing the "GL's play was so inactive and poor that he had to be policy lynched even if he were town" RC garbage the next day

I don't say stuff like this and I don't think GL says that I do

like in what universe is this a pro-town thing to do, encourage a hammer as quickly as possible on a wagon that just sprung up in half a day? "You guys hate how much that dude chesskid spams, right?!? Wanna hammer an objectively weak lynch on a player who hasn't been able to post much today?"

I understand town being pissed because of the nature of the push but this is a terrible response to it.

point me to your reasoned readslist first

This is just a bad response

I get that being manipulative and making shit up is just as much a part of your towngame as your scumgame and it makes you unreadable, but it also makes it an absolute chore to try to deal with you

Again it all basically adds up to discrediting me for being me and I don't think that comes from GL who has a lot of respect for me

[RadiantCowbells]

And regardless of respect, I feel like GL would have been talking to me rather than at me if he were town

[RadiantCowbells]

for context if you weren't aware, GL is one of the stronger scum players of my generation.

[Errantparabola]

Not reading yet, but I did want to mention that I did have a think about a couple things RC said in the shower (mainly in regards to "shitting up the game") and I concluded that RC is town. 80-20, maybe.

To clarify, RC was not saying them in the shower. I was thinking about the things in the shower. Well, maybe RC posts from the shower, I don't know. Probably not though

[GuiltyLion]

Guiltylion instead of doing whatever you're doing can you just give a readslist with some reasons

point me to your reasoned readslist first

GuiltyLion first.

Anenien did you get to the later part of this conversation? It was pretty clear to me at the time that RC only wanted a "reasoned readslist" to spin it as scummy and he basically admitted as much in 2645

As far as updated reads, I think considering the Hindu replace out and RC push on me, I'm moving closer to this
definite town: {Reck, BYF, Creature}
more probably town but maybe a scum is in here: {Hindu, Smart, Anenien, Cheeky, Katy}
most scum probably here: {EP, Mastina, Primate, RC, CK, Srceenplay}

Tell us more about Errant, Primate and Srceenplay.

Primate is more POE than anything else, when I went through his ISO again I didn't see anything extremely town or unfakeable by scum, so I don't have a good read on his alignment beyond base probability and he's below anyone who I've felt has made townie posts.

I didn't like a few things about Errant's catchup, there's a lot of comments that are useless now that the game advanced some 2000+ posts so it felt like more work for show than genuinely trying to create useful game-advancing content. And the Katy push feels like a classic scum push where you pick a player who's not particularly town/scumread and hasn't drawn a lot of discussion and start pushing them because it gives you something to do, you know it won't get too much negative attention, and it might result in a compromise deadline lynch. Pretty similar to RC's pivot to me, actually. and I don't really vibe with Katy scumreads in general.

Srceenplay has been active lurking in a sense, he's pushing this Mastina/Yoshi/Anen angle occasionally but mostly just not really posting anything that actually makes an impact or opens him up to conversation. I don't like any Yoshi scumreads and his actual presented reasons for voting Mastina are basically because "Boon said to", I haven't seen him draw the actual connection between Mastina's play and why it's scum-indicative.

This may be my only post for the day, going to a beer fest later, don't feel inclined to comment on the latest RC posts beyond the fact that he absolutely justifies his pushes with the "even if you're town you deserve(d) this lynch" reasoning all the time. If I'm not feeling lazy later I'll dig through some games and find them. And talking about my scum game is purely to fear/paranoia monger, just because I have a decent scumgame does not mean I'm scum here and it does not justify a vote on me.

[Srceenplay]

Srceenplay has been active lurking in a sense, he's pushing this Mastina/Yoshi/Anen angle occasionally but mostly just not really posting anything that actually makes an impact or opens him up to conversation. I don't like any Yoshi scumreads and his actual presented reasons for voting Mastina are basically because "Boon said to", I haven't seen him draw the actual connection between Mastina's play and why it's scum-indicative.

I will let you reread my iso and try again

[beeboy]

singersigner has replaced Primate as the representative of God Save The Black Goo, this is a replacement and not a swap.

[Katyusha]

first of all im throwing away the wall i wrote like 2 days ago where i basically threw my weight around and called reck an idiot for his vote (still true it was a terrible vote) but i dont think sorting reck there is the direction i need to go this game so im tabling it

the Katy push feels like a classic scum push where you pick a player who's not particularly town/scumread and hasn't drawn a lot of discussion and start pushing them because it gives you something to do, you know it won't get too much negative attention, and it might result in a compromise deadline lynch.

the other point in the wall was this actually and my team basically hardscumread EP from their first game-advancing post. i dont feel as strongly about it but i know historically speaking usually scumreads on me result from that kind of thinking from scum while town typically townread me and EP has literally been one of those scum before

If we're going in a route besides jerking off chesskid then let's go here:

VOTE: ErrantParabola

EP, can you condense your scumread of me into like some sort of soundbyte? Why am I scum? I think understanding your perspective will make it clear whether you genuinely believe in your push or not.

To people townreading EP besides Chesskid, why? If your reason is basically "I liked their catchups", how does it compare to Anenien's catchups to you?

---

Raybells, on Guilty, I kind of feel the same way I did about srceenplay in that I might have jumped the gun in saying this is his towngame but I'm not straight up seeing scum!him either. I want to give him space to work him out because when he's town it's extremely obvious and I feel the gamestate has been kind of oppressive in terms of forming a consistent read at this point

Also let's talk about Reck. What has he done that's put him at locktown for you? Do you not see why I think he'd be scum here even if I'm wrong?

pedit: Hi singer, sorry you had to witness this dumpster fire

[CheekyTeeky]

Cheeky. So, if you were the Hider, why wouldn't you pick me? I'm your strongest scumread, aren't I?

This is objectively (lol) ignorant of the current state of the game. In order to get a lynch through step 1 is to get the hider plan sorted/hammered. The majority seem to want to use the hider to resolve the mastina/rc/chesskid problem, so I offered myself to solve the problem in line with this plan.

I voted to lynch you because you're currently my biggest scum read, but again taking into account the likelihood of your lynch this day phase and the possibility GL could be scum I am happy to jump on his wagon and keep my FoS pointed at you.

Aneninen would you mind compiling all your reads into a list?

[xRECKONERx]

SINGER OMFG SANITY NOW

[chesskid3]

singer pls tell me when you read you arent going to townread scum RC like everyone else is

[CheekyTeeky]

To people townreading EP besides Chesskid, why? If your reason is basically "I liked their catchups", how does it compare to Anenien's catchups to you?

EPs catch up resonated with me because a lot of their stances on the game state as they progressed followed my own thoughts. I believe EP's catch up is much stronger than Aneninen's because she didn't focus on ISO picking to determine her reads and she took the whole game and interactions into account.

I do agree however that her conclusion and vote on you was somewhat concerning as there is more content from scummier players imo. I'm watching to see how this plays out.

[Errantparabola]

Kat, can you explain your scumread on me? Why am I scum? I think understanding why you scumread me will help me figure out whether you genuinely believe in your push or not. ;>

In all seriousness, sure. I’ll add it to the list of things to do when I get to a computer. But I really do believe I’m bleeding town here and would be interested to know why your team of players, most of whom I have next to no experience with as scum, all collectively have so much confidence in their read. (Because I dont buy that!)

[Katyusha]

see though thats exactly how i feel about anen's isos, and if raybells is at least telling the truth about his playstyle (see no reason to lie) i dont think him not taking the gamestate into account is relevant

plus being in the game longer also gave anen the chance to break down his thought processes a lot more clearly. idk. i just have a lot of difficulty scumreading it but if theres a sort of "EP/Anen are the same and we we're not woke enough to realize it" sort of thing going on then i guess this is how we start seeing if thats the case

pedit: skirt skirt has only seen scum you, trans has only seen scum you. trans's read comes from poe as well as your vote (he thought the team was cheeky/chesskid/you before he left. i dont really think i agree but he called everyone else obvtown), skirt skirt is confident that you're playing the same way you did in penguin mafia. why would that be an unreasonable position to hold? (jj is mostly focusing on his game, lycan has kind of poked in today. when i say team it's just the two of them because theyre the only ones whove been actively weighing in)

[CheekyTeeky]

i dont think him not taking the gamestate into account is relevant

It is relevant though because he keeps pushing me with redundant ideas that are easily answered by taking the current discussion into account.

He literally opened his ISO dig analysis on me with "This post is terrible, no scumhunting" neglecting to take into account it was a fluff post in early RVS and also neglecting to take into account my playstyle as a whole at the point in the game that he decided to ISO dig me.

The context he ignores make his pushes completely empty, so I can't believe he has any real conviction.

[CheekyTeeky]

^^That's just one example there are many more.

[Katyusha]

i mean yes it's

bad

but by relevant i think him doing it as town is plausible which is what's relevant to me

like i like the way he broke me down in an iso an interacted with me - it felt like a weird thing to fake for the sake of scum pocketing me. him calling the ss/me interaction artificial feeling was kind of an interesting call out. his breakdown on hinduragi was also strong to me

pedit: i think it's just a natural weakness of the playstyle that there will be good pushes and shitty pushes if you mostly read the game through ISOs. do you at least see the merit of what I think are the good aspects of his reads? because i do see why you feel your way but i think the positives outweigh the negatives

[CheekyTeeky]

i mean yes it's

bad

but by relevant i think him doing it as town is plausible which is what's relevant to me

like i like the way he broke me down in an iso an interacted with me - it felt like a weird thing to fake for the sake of scum pocketing me. him calling the ss/me interaction artificial feeling was kind of an interesting call out. his breakdown on hinduragi was also strong to me

pedit: i think it's just a natural weakness of the playstyle that there will be good pushes and shitty pushes if you mostly read the game through ISOs. do you at least see the merit of what I think are the good aspects of his reads? because i do see why you feel your way but i think the positives outweigh the negatives

Initially I did assume the intent was town until I saw how shallow and low level his analysis was, that's why I started responding to his points to draw him out into a discussion about what his read, that real time interaction only reinforced my concern that his ISO digs are very much agenda driven. He was unwilling to be open and discuss how his push was bad, instead he pulled more redundant posts shading me as scum and even voted me with a threat that "when he flips town" (bear in mind he didn't have a single vote on him) which was disgustingly scummy and was obviously intended to shut our conversation down/make me back off. Even worse was his backtracking on his conviction of me and his unbelievable reasoning for the unprovoked threat. RC did have a part to play in his unvote of me, but honestly it felt like Ane was relieved to move off me.

Sure he may have some good points, but overall the negatives far outweigh the positives.

[singersigner]

Hi guys! Super excited to replace in because I almost thought I missed the boat!

That being said...

unvote
vote: RadiantCowbells

Read a bit but will work on catching up more. Note: I WILL NOT BE READING THE WHOLE GAME. If you all insist on continuing the same game pace, then I feel pretty strongly that I will find the reads I need to get moving forward. Any other background/context I can get via, you know...clicking on the post numbers that you ALL are so kindly linking in your responses in order to validate your scumhunting.

[CheekyTeeky]

Not reading yet, but I did want to mention that I did have a think about a couple things RC said in the shower (mainly in regards to "shitting up the game") and I concluded that RC is town. 80-20, maybe.

Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? There are many others who have complained about the state of the thread, how is that specifically AI for RC?

[chesskid3]

Hi guys! Super excited to replace in because I almost thought I missed the boat!

That being said...

unvote
vote: RadiantCowbells

Read a bit but will work on catching up more. Note: I WILL NOT BE READING THE WHOLE GAME. If you all insist on continuing the same game pace, then I feel pretty strongly that I will find the reads I need to get moving forward. Any other background/context I can get via, you know...clicking on the post numbers that you ALL are so kindly linking in your responses in order to validate your scumhunting.

Confirming this is a serious vote and you are going to help me corral these people!

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi guys! Super excited to replace in because I almost thought I missed the boat!

That being said...

unvote
vote: RadiantCowbells

Read a bit but will work on catching up more. Note: I WILL NOT BE READING THE WHOLE GAME. If you all insist on continuing the same game pace, then I feel pretty strongly that I will find the reads I need to get moving forward. Any other background/context I can get via, you know...clicking on the post numbers that you ALL are so kindly linking in your responses in order to validate your scumhunting.

What page are you on and why?

[xRECKONERx]

@everyone: how did hindu's flip read on me make sense

[Katyusha]

@everyone: how did hindu's flip read on me make sense

it didnt