Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

Is the latter comment referring to Shea?

Yeah, Shea was doing Good Works trying to figure out the game looking into Gamma and then LQ; I find it difficult to buy LQ genuinely found it scummy.

You gunna answer my question?

[Davsto]

oh no looks like i'll have to continue catch up tomorrow

I just want to be thorough rather than just skim and have no idea what I actually think of anyone

UNVOTE:

Marquis hasn't really rubbed me up the wrong way as of page 5 soyeh

[LicketyQuickety]

This is Marqu trying to get the game going IMO

Asking again what you meant by 308.

Marquis was being pro-active by giving reads that I assume they were thinking would be discussed. That is a pro-town mentality because it shows a motivation to drive the game forward. I don't think Marquis was 100% serious with their reads there, which means she gave those reads for a different reason. My guess is that it was to get the game moving forward. I did however say that Scum can do this to look like Town, which I think is completely within Marquis' Scum range.

His provided reads on not even half the players in the game goes after isolated incidence instead of looking at the whole picture regarding the reads he gave where he said most about them. It's important to note that these are the more active players on average so the fact he goes after isolated incidents instead of a broader picture of those slots shows he's either giving low effort for this competition or he is Scum.

...

His question to me

I don't think is a legit way to sort me

considering he's already given a SR on me, which makes me think he is pushing an agenda instead of actually sorting people. It's also unclear who he SRs and who he TRs because under Scum

you have 6 players, which is far too many to be SRing

, which makes me think he is intentionally trying to paint a lot of people as Scum so he can't get blamed for voting someone later in D1 whom he already game a SR on.

Lycan uses a lot of colorful wording, but there is a disconnect between what he is representing with enough solid backing that I think he is just creating stories for motivation instead of looking at all possibilities.

Why do you think I do not intend to sort you when I'm offering twice the number as scum as scumreads? Are you special?

Who are you talking to in this (434) post, and what are you trying to say?

What about my wording is interesting?

All of these questions are completely invalid.

For the first question, you are implying that your Scum reads are the only ones you plan on sorting? This means you would not be reevaluating your Town reads, which I think is an incorrect way to approach the game.

I am not talking to you in post 434, I am talking to Town to see what they have to say about it.

It's more that your wording paints a picture that ends up giving more emphasis to points that are not as well substantiated. In other words, I am saying your words are charismatic and your words are stronger than the evidence of what you are actually saying.

[Gamma Emerald]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

[LicketyQuickety]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

Why would I want to help people who are SRing me?

[Llamarble]

Is the latter comment referring to Shea?

Yeah, Shea was doing Good Works trying to figure out the game looking into Gamma and then LQ; I find it difficult to buy LQ genuinely found it scummy.

You gunna answer my question?

Maybe someday.

Town:
Llama

TSQ
NSG
Gamma

Town enough for probably not lynching today, I guess? For now:
Davsto
Lycan
Sauce

Difficult to read players that I don't have any special reason to believe are town
Postie - paranoid about this one especially because "wait why are we townreading this player" happens a lot with scum
CES

Dunnstral

Serious D1 Lynch Options:
Marquis
Eddie

AD
LQ
Tchill

[Marquis]

I'm alive hold up

I legitimately will be around and reading tonight after cooking dinner. I know I keep putting this off but I owe it at least to my teammates to reciprocate here

[Gamma Emerald]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

Why would I want to help people who are SRing me?

Help demonstrate why they're wrong? Help them improve their reads?

[LicketyQuickety]

Is the latter comment referring to Shea?

Yeah, Shea was doing Good Works trying to figure out the game looking into Gamma and then LQ; I find it difficult to buy LQ genuinely found it scummy.

You gunna answer my question?

Maybe someday.

It's a pretty straight forward question. Why are you SRing me? If it was based solely off my interaction with TSQ, and if you have ISO'd me multiple times, don't you think having only having one reason to SR me is a bit thin?

[LicketyQuickety]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

Why would I want to help people who are SRing me?

Help demonstrate why they're wrong? Help them improve their reads?

I feel I am doing that by showing them they are wrong. Look, this is pretty standard behavior for me as any alignment. I fight my SR's on me. You can look at pretty much any game and if I am SR then there is a really really good chance that I operate exactly how you are seeing me operate in this game.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.20

Tchill13(4)

~ Thestatusquo, northsidegal, LicketyQuickety, Llamarble

Marquis(2)

~ Cogito Ergo Sum, Dunnstral

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

Llamarble(1)

~ Sauce

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ ActionDan

EddieFenix(1)

~ Postie

Davsto(1)

~ Tchill13

Cogito Ergo Sum(1)

~ Lycanfire


Not Voting (2): Davsto, EddieFenix

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

MOD NOTES

Prodding ActionDan. ActionDan has 24 hours to make a content post.

Added Links to votes for easier finding of votes.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever, I'll just clarify in an ISO review later, since I'm having issues articulating without one

[EddieFenix]

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

He went null, scum, null for you. Town and then scum for me, back to trying to get a town read from me and has me as a day 1 viable lynch option. He's still being chaotic and all over the place as you'll see at the end.

Eddie, GE, why aren't you voting?

Because I originally was voting GE, after a back and forth, I unvoted them. I'm also waiting for fresh blood/meat to get in here to sort some of those damn null spots I have in my reads. Marathon, CES.

Is the latter comment referring to Shea?

Yeah, Shea was doing Good Works trying to figure out the game looking into Gamma and then LQ; I find it difficult to buy LQ genuinely found it scummy.

You gunna answer my question?

Maybe someday.

Town:
Llama

TSQ
NSG
Gamma

Town enough for probably not lynching today, I guess? For now:
Davsto
Lycan
Sauce

Difficult to read players that I don't have any special reason to believe are town
Postie - paranoid about this one especially because "wait why are we townreading this player" happens a lot with scum
CES

Dunnstral

Serious D1 Lynch Options:
Marquis
Eddie

AD
LQ
Tchill

Now it's BACK to scum for LQ, and serious D1 Lynch option for me when I started as town..... Marble, you've yo-yo'd and flipped so much, it's hard to keep the list of "who am I town/scum reading this day" down pact. Like, booo-ruh. If you're seriously reaching out to ME and want my help, here's some help for you...

Spoiler:

Llamarble

TSQ
NSG
Postie
Gamma

Wsgeurts
Lycan
Dunnstral
CES
Sauce
Marquis

AD

Eddie - Though perhaps not with LQ?
Tchill
LQ

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the order within groups.

P:edit
Of course it won't excuse anything, but it will help us get the lynch right between him and Tchill and LQ

TChill + Lycan + AD
Will check if they've done associative tells tomorrow. Now sleep.

Also, we should probably lynch one of the players who has already posted today.
Ooh that makes me sound like scum trying to look town by narrowing the lynch to a small pool I belong to.
Or maybe I'm scum trying to protect my buddies because I'm a known unlynchable!
We should probably do it anyway.
TOWN:
Llamarble

Northside
ActionDan
Dunnstral - possibly first page bussing yay!

Marquis
Postie
:SCUM

I wonder if we win by lynching EddieFenix and Marquis and Postie. Wouldn't be surprised.

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

It felt like a bus vote to me too, simply off of the timing and it being a naked vote.
I still think Dunnstral is a pretty good possibility for scum.

Having CES, TSQ, Postie all be town, seems lucky but I guess it's not far from 50%
Still, strong players are going to look somewhat town at the beginning of games, not going to pretend I feel confident either way about any of them.
TSQ was scumpinging me some earlier but has done enough Good Works to be on the positive side of null.

Currently here, not ready to lynch or "LEAVE ALIVE ENDGAME" anyone though:
TOWN-
Llamarble

NSG
Eddie

Postie
Gamma - seemed town to me but not definite and others disagree so
CES
TSQ

Lycan
Sauce Neutral Point
LQ

AD
Marquis

Wgeurts
Dunnstral
Tchill

VOTE: Tchill

Get your act together. Get your reads in a lined up, orderly fashion, and we can chat. This day to day, whip lash, flip-a-zoo, shifting sands reads game isn't gonna keep flying with me when I have to keep figuring out who all you have as town and scum. If tomorrow is different AGAIN, I might need a table flip gif. Cause right now, this is where I am

[Postie]

I like how you criticise Llamarble for not sorting his reads the "right" way when you've commented on maybe two people's alignment this whole game.

[Thestatusquo]

town frequently changes opinions on people, sometimes rapidly. This is the mindset of someone trying to find scum. Scum players are the ones who tend to care about consistency of reads.

[LicketyQuickety]

town frequently changes opinions on people, sometimes rapidly. This is the mindset of someone trying to find scum. Scum players are the ones who tend to care about consistency of reads.

I've seen plenty of Scum utilize the "disconnect and confuse Town" approach.

Your hard defense of Llama is noted tho.

[Llamarble]

Get your act together. Get your reads in a lined up, orderly fashion, and we can chat. This day to day, whip lash, flip-a-zoo, shifting sands reads game isn't gonna keep flying with me when I have to keep figuring out who all you have as town and scum. If tomorrow is different AGAIN, I might need a table flip gif. Cause right now, this is where I am

I'm giving a complete readslist on a regular basis; my reads ARE in a lined up orderly fashion.
I can't help that my reads change as I read and reread the game.
This kind of post is why you're in the D1 lynchpool though.
Keeping careful track of everyones' reads is what scum do because they need to figure out what mislynch to pursue.
Why is "figuring out who all you have as town and scum" so important to you?
There's so much information in this game you can use to figure out who got which role PMs; by focusing on the information scum wants and not paying much attention to the things towns normally care about (you know, identifying and lynching scum), you are practically BEGGING us to lynch you.
Reads.
Reasons.

[ActionDan]

Will post tomorrow.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I managed to make time, so will probably start ISO review work on Chilly or LQ

[Marquis]

Limiting myself to the last 5 pages sigh

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

Yeah, things aren't really going quite as planned; I thought things would develop more helpfully. The main reasons I found Marquis scummy very early on were 1) his general awkward tone early on and 2) the whole "representative" affectation. I think Signs and Void from last Team Mafia is pretty important context here - his early posts here feel really similar. I think both of those things are more significant than his lurking although his lurking has also felt scum-motivated (but I'd be more hard-pressed to explain the nuts and bolts of that feeling).

Lol. All I remember from that game is that it made me never want to pick scum again, if given the choice. Even from skimming it looks nothing like my play here, and also nothing like my town game. Too tryhard

For the record CES is in the same pool as Llama for me aura-wise. Older reputable player I don't want to bother reading, don't touch early on, see if one dies, etc etc. But this seems like a massive reach compared to Llama pulling out the talking about teammates thing first (which I'm still half convinced was a fake read either way for the sake of having a scumread)

Also I forgot to mention this earlier on but I would expect anyone choosing scum in this game specifically is either inexperienced (Gamma, nsg still maybe?), overconfident (Lick), or one of the older set (Llama, CES, Dan). That's more distracting than helpful right now, but Gamma and Lick fit both my expected persona and my teammates and I find them both decent candidates for scum. (And tbh they have more reads than I do iirc but I'll relay them tomorrow when on a computer)

Will try to do a full sort tomorrow but rn I have Gamma and Lick as scumreads/lynches I'd be ok with and Postie as mine and Skrew's heavy early townread. That's extremely limited but going to go off of that after work. Don't do anything rash etc etc, but can't complain if they get lynched while I'm out etc etc etc

Also I'm realizing I'm signing off after having said I would read a whole 5 pages lol

[Dunnstral]

Let's talk about why you think those people are more likely to be scum than others based on meta/picking

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Tchill13

Looks too different, timid/inactive, compared to when I've seen him a few times as town

[Gamma Emerald]

Limiting myself to the last 5 pages sigh

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

Yeah, things aren't really going quite as planned; I thought things would develop more helpfully. The main reasons I found Marquis scummy very early on were 1) his general awkward tone early on and 2) the whole "representative" affectation. I think Signs and Void from last Team Mafia is pretty important context here - his early posts here feel really similar. I think both of those things are more significant than his lurking although his lurking has also felt scum-motivated (but I'd be more hard-pressed to explain the nuts and bolts of that feeling).

Lol. All I remember from that game is that it made me never want to pick scum again, if given the choice. Even from skimming it looks nothing like my play here, and also nothing like my town game. Too tryhard

For the record CES is in the same pool as Llama for me aura-wise. Older reputable player I don't want to bother reading, don't touch early on, see if one dies, etc etc. But this seems like a massive reach compared to Llama pulling out the talking about teammates thing first (which I'm still half convinced was a fake read either way for the sake of having a scumread)

Also I forgot to mention this earlier on but I would expect anyone choosing scum in this game specifically is either inexperienced (Gamma, nsg still maybe?), overconfident (Lick), or one of the older set (Llama, CES, Dan). That's more distracting than helpful right now, but Gamma and Lick fit both my expected persona and my teammates and I find them both decent candidates for scum. (And tbh they have more reads than I do iirc but I'll relay them tomorrow when on a computer)

Will try to do a full sort tomorrow but rn I have Gamma and Lick as scumreads/lynches I'd be ok with and Postie as mine and Skrew's heavy early townread. That's extremely limited but going to go off of that after work. Don't do anything rash etc etc, but can't complain if they get lynched while I'm out etc etc etc

Also I'm realizing I'm signing off after having said I would read a whole 5 pages lol

Fucking excuse me? I just noticed the reason for the accusation, and first of all, that's

really

angleshooty. Second, How DARE you call me inexperienced,

especially

more inexperienced than nsg, I believe I've been on longer than her.

[Thestatusquo]

above post seems like a pretty bizarre overreaction. Forced?

[Llamarble]

Yeah. Kinda does.
Marquis -> Town enough to probably not bother lynching today
Dunnstral -> Actual lynch candidates