Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Ellibereth]

GHOSTLIN REPLACES HINDURAGI

[BigYoshiFan]

Welcome to hell. How may I take your order?

[Ghostlin]

Hi, folks. I'm still trying to read the 120 pages of fun you guys started on, but I noticed the following:

--most of the player list is lynching mastina right now, and could I get the cliffnotes version of why from someone who won't go into three paragraphs about it
--and did I miss who got the invention today?

[Ghostlin]

I could also ask why Day 1 is 120 pages, but I've noticed two things:
--I don't give a fuck
--mastina's in the player list.

[mastina]

Btw calculating: Been about 2.5 hours since starting, have gone about 5 pages in that time.

I will try to go faster, since extrapolating from that it takes me about half an hour per page to read, and I have 66 pages to go.

Which means I'd take 33 hours to get caught up. I have a lot of time today, but I don't

quite

have THAT much time, so.

Might end up skimming a little more than I should and commenting on a little less than I should.

Because if I pull an all-nighter (which I probably will), that's still like 12 hours available, which includes times I'd take for breaks.

In other words I need to catch up faster if I want to actually fulfill my promise of getting caught up. Also,

Fun fact: around 46% of the posts from this game are from chesskid or RC.

This still applies even right now. Well, actually if you round up (because it's 46.5something%), it'd be 47%.

To some extent that makes my job easier; the only time I need to quote RadiantCowbells is when I need to emphasize a point he has made and/or talk to him; the only time I need to quote chesskid is when I see things which show why he's scum. So I'm anticipating it should get easier the further I go along and the more it becomes unnecessary for me to actually quote chesskid (because he's a one-note guy, more or less).

RC, you're missing a very key element. There ARE people who are tired of it. Who does chesskid have control over? Me? The person trying to buck his plan and find another option?

Srceenplay? Who refused to vote with chesskid over and over until he arrived at his own read?

Certainly not. And nobody else is marching to the beat of his drum either.
He has browbeat plenty of others in the game, and yet, there are only 2 non-CK votes on mastina right now.
You're WAY overblowing the power chesskid has in the game.
90% of the playerlist just hates him and wants him to shut the fuck up.

You can either lose the same portion of the playerlist who wants you to shut the fuck up too, or you can play ball with the rest of the game.
Because at this rate, I'm 100% sure I'm not alone in thinking "Man, I really don't care which of them is town or scum, I just want them dead so I don't have to pay attention to anything they say anymore."

That INCLUDES all your post-death reads if you're town and get NK'd. You think anyone's gonna go back through and read mountains of shit if it's full of back and forth screaming?

This is another instance of a post which is highly town from Reck. I miiiiiiight need to take a small break both for food (haven't eaten since breakfast at 6 AM and it's almost 9 PM) and because I am getting a little bit tired (I TRIED to take a nap when I got home, but my mind just kept coming back to the game and I couldn't sleep because I kept on thinking about reasons why chesskid and to a lesser extent Reck were scum, so I didn't actually get any rest), so I do apologize that I can't really articulate it well.

But basically.
Scum-Reck has no need to reach out to RC here.
Scum-Reck can just keep pushing, along-side chesskid.
Scum-Reck trying to calm RadiantCowbells down does nothing pro-scum and potentially something pro-town. There's no attempt to get towncred from this. There's also no scum agenda in what he is saying. And yet. What he was saying wasn't something null. When Reck speaks things that aren't alignment indicative, I can call them out as being such. To put it bluntly, Reck stating things that he really believes in is an ass. But when Reck is actually trying to offer an olive branch. That is something which he is going out of his way to do.

As scum, he has no reason to do so and it's actually disadvantageous for him to have done.
As town, it makes sense because it is something he is actually thinking, more or less.

Wish I could explain this better.

But Reck's gone from "scumread #1" to "scumread #2" to "maybe scum but not definitely" to "not scum, but not sure where on the town spectrum" and with this to "among my strongest townreads".

Still not quite sure EXACTLY where he'd fit on the list. But it's high--really, really high.

[Something_Smart]

Hey Ghostlin!
A. Ellibereth has a computer that finds tells on people, and a while ago he ran some tells on mastina and gave them to chesskid. According to chesskid, mastina did something that she ONLY does as scum. RC is also completely convinced that chesskid is scum, so it's kind of a 2v1.
B. Reck got it.

And actually, the page count is mostly due to RC and chesskid.

Also mastina please don't pull an all-nighter for mafia I realize your thoughts are important but they're not THAT important.

[Ghostlin]

Hey Ghostlin!
A. Ellibereth has a computer that finds tells on people, and a while ago he ran some tells on mastina and gave them to chesskid. According to chesskid, mastina did something that she ONLY does as scum. RC is also completely convinced that chesskid is scum, so it's kind of a 2v1.
B. Reck got it.

And actually, the page count is mostly due to RC and chesskid.

Also mastina please don't pull an all-nighter for mafia I realize your thoughts are important but they're not THAT important.

A. Please tell me that's not it. Please also tell me we're lynching chess if for some reason that's it, the only reason, and mastina flips Town.
B. That's fine. I just noticed we weren't voting on it anymore.

Also, mastina probably won't answer you now, she answers things in chronological order.

[Something_Smart]

It's not the ONLY reason, but chesskid considers it to be equivalent to a cop guilty. So yes, we will lynch chesskid if mastina flips town. (If you didn't see off the votecount, I'm of the opinion that we should lynch chesskid first. But I seem to be in the minority.)

[mastina]

Because she's worth it <3

I'm not really

that

valuable. But yes, I do have at least SOME merits.

her latest literally said "im conftowm cuz i got wagoned"

Not exactly, but yes. Scumastina would not get lynched on D1. Maybe by D3 it's possible. But on D1 it's just not happening.

Town mastina however is in fact mislynch bait.

I got wagoned in Maplewood and/or Deathworlders (possibly both, but I forget, I know I was wagoned in at least one of them), I got wagoned in camn's revenge, I might have gotten wagoned in Biochemistry (don't quite remember), pretty sure I got wagoned in Beneath the Mask (then again didn't really read much of the game and was always behind so not sure there), I got lynched in White Flag (hey guess why the fuck I'm NOT in that game!), in both my town-newbie games I got lynched (on D2 and D1 respectively), and in Fountain of Tired Souls I also got lynched (albeit after I was forcefully vacated from the slot).

In contrast?

For scumastina: I never had a serious wagon on me in Rogue One, (it doesn't really count but we weren't voted in Civilization Mafia to my recollection though that was mostly a Jae game,) in Mystery at King's Landing I was considered so fucking town I was the N1 nightkill and never got wagoned, in Organization XIII I managed to make it to 5p--one day away from 3p lylo--and was only lynched because everyone else was more town than I was, and in XP Mafia I never received a vote until mylo and in spite of the fucking guilty was not in fact lynched and earned a mislynch.

I realize that's only a small selection of games as both alignments but it's what I have as mastina. Extend it back to include mastin2 though, and you will see literally hundreds of games where the same trend emerges. As town I get lynched--often, and early. As scum, I rarely get lynched. And mostly, when I do, it's as either the last scum or is part of a plan. Unless you're reading a significantly older scumgame. (I didn't become a better scum player until midway through Good vs Evil, Chaos vs Law, which was in May of 2012 thereabouts.) Obviously I sucked back then and it took me a while to get my groove, but once I got it...I really fucking GOT it.

Players who know me, know this.
chesskid is among those players.

He should fucking know all of the above to be true.

And that he continues to push me in spite of the MAJOR FUCKING TOWNTELL having shown up for me.
Is more reason why he's scum.

[Ghostlin]

It's not the ONLY reason, but chesskid considers it to be equivalent to a cop guilty. (1) So yes, we will lynch chesskid if mastina flips town. (2) (If you didn't see off the votecount, I'm of the opinion that we should lynch chesskid first. But I seem to be in the minority.)

1) *snerk* I'm sure he does. I am also sure that he might be tapping into that impulse Towns have for people to solve the game for them. I generally find if someone offers a plan that's entirely too good to be true, it often is, and the person offering it is scum.
2) That should be the plan. Frankly, if we treat this as a Cop guilty, we should lynch the guilty than the innocent as 'correct' play. My question is if chess has this data, why just mastina? If he's running it on everyone, why not just output which tells are what?

(The fact that he's even claimed he's got the data on mastina alone should tell you something about him and her and this game.)

[Something_Smart]

He doesn't have the program, it belongs to Elli. He only has the output on certain players, and the only relevant one is mastina.

[Something_Smart]

By the way, this is further complicated by the fact that chesskid and RC are both very confident that the other is scum. Chesskid offered to be lynched on the condition that we lynch mastina and RC the next two days assuming he flips town, which I want to take him up on. (There is also the fact that chesskid was the one who contributed the most to making the game toxic around the middle of the day, and I don't really want to reward that.)

[mastina]

I'll accept hiding behind chesskid and lynching neither chess nor mastina.

Less optimal because chesskid has at least three ways to wiggle out of a hider guilty.

A hider innocent, or a double nightkill, are the ways to go.

This is why targeting me is something I am explicitly okay with. Forcing the scum to nightkill me or conftown me is absolutely acceptable. Now,

personally

, it wouldn't give me anything (and thus, for me is not the optimal play), in that I'd either be a corpse or have nothing new because I already know myself to be town. But objectively, it is the best way to go because too many people think I'm scum for me to

not

be hid behind.

Now admittedly.

Half the people calling me suspicious are probably scum.

But they're not

all

scum. There's town in them. So that information would be useful to THEM. In particular, I'd think Creature and CheekyTeeky would get a great amount of mileage out of it. You would, too, if we lived through the night. (I feel like I'm forgetting a mastina voter. I coulda sworn there were six or seven but I can only think of the five.)

chesskid manages to squirm his way out of the guilty, guaranteed.

He has a much harder time arguing with living conftown or two dead corpses.

[Something_Smart]

two dead corpses.

as opposed to all the other kinds of corpses, lol

[mastina]

I'll accept hiding behind chesskid and lynching neither chess nor mastina.

NO YOU WONT THATS TERRIBLE WHAT THE FUCK.

That having been said.

It might be possible chesskid doesn't actually

know

the three ways to avert the hider guilty. (Or is afraid that the attempts to justify it would not be bought.)

This legit looks like scum panicking that their entire plan could be unraveling.

[Ghostlin]

He doesn't have the program, it belongs to Elli. He only has the output on certain players, and the only relevant one is mastina.

My greater point, such as it is, is that you don't keep what's the equivalent of a computer burn book on someone you're not afraid of what'll happen if your alignment isn't theirs. Even if the program isn't real, the very idea he's pulling this on mastina MEANS he's somewhat afraid what'll happen if she's not his alignment.

By the way, this is further complicated by the fact that chesskid and RC are both very confident that the other is scum. Chesskid offered to be lynched on the condition that we lynch mastina and RC the next two days assuming he flips town, which I want to take him up on. (There is also the fact that chesskid was the one who contributed the most to making the game toxic around the middle of the day, and I don't really want to reward that.)

Yeah, no, that ain't happening. Not because I have particularly well-formed thoughts on mastina or RC, but I'm not spending two lynches to humor chess without the goods, so to speak---and if mastina flips Town, his ass is grass here.

[mastina]

so the two bastions of sanity die and we trust this bunch of yokels to lynch mastina?

He says, while not addressing the fact that both RadiantCowbells and I have stated this is why we take umbrage with any "lynch mastina" plan, because a dead mastina + a dead RadiantCowbells = chesskid has unlimited access to the game. Add in a dead Reck (via hider suiciding be it hiding behind the nightkill RC or hiding behind a scum chesskid), and he goes uncontested with a town that is largely apathetic and calls his play "insufferable, but town" that are unlikely to actually follow through on the lynch.

We've both laid this out multiple times, and chesskid thought nothing of the point. But suddenly, when it turns against him, he produces this and presents it as if it's unique insight.

[Something_Smart]

It might not have been clear, but chesskid's plan was that we lynch him TODAY, followed by mastina and RC if he flips town. (Of course, if he flips scum, we can do whatever.)

[Ghostlin]

SS: Oh. That's better, but I think he knows that no one will take him up on it. It's really just hot air.

[Aneninen]

Ghostlin, if there's anything you want to post Today, do it.

[mastina]

Mastina, you're being anti-town by LLD's standards and you have 24 hours to cease adding fuel to RC/CK3. LLD has told me if you don't comply, I'm to park my vote on you and only you for D1. If you're not lynched, LLD is trading in and doing it herself.

Fuck that shit. A scum player is a scum player. I will push whoever I believe to be scum. I will admit that pushing Reck was a mistake (he's town)...

...But I honestly don't think that I would have known it was a mistake without having actually done the push. In other words, he might not be scum, but the only reason I KNOW he's not scum is BECAUSE I thought he was and pushed him under the impression he was. I will continue to push chesskid unless I no longer scumread chesskid, at which point I would stop pushing him and push someone else. (I mean. I don't think it will happen, but you never know. I didn't think I'd townread Reck, either, so. You never know, it's possible.)

Speaking of pushing chesskid,

name one single way thats better than just lynching mastina into CK if shes town?

It prevents you from worming your way out of the lynch.

You keep on advocating.

"Oh mastina flips town, I die next".

Except no.

You're not that kind of player.

You don't roll over and die.

You argue. You fight. You keep on pushing. And people buy it. They decide that chain-lynching is a bad idea, that just lynching chesskid because he was wrong is not a smart move, that lynching chesskid is policy, that there isn't actually reason to lynch chesskid so they shouldn't do it...

...And with RadiantCowbells nightkilled, this viewpoint goes unchallenged because RC and I have been the largest proponents of you as scum and with us both gone BEFORE D2, it means you get away with it, scotch-free.

[Ghostlin]

Also, just skimming this thread, THIS:

This is the readlist. I only added thoughts where major changes had happened.

Town

BigYoshiFan
Katyusha
ErrantParabola (His catch-up looks okay for me)

Lean town

GuiltyLion
Reckoner (In his latests I found genuine interest towards the game. Or how can I say it.)
Singersinger (Townish catchup, she did a lot if we consider the sheer size of the game too.)
RadiantCowbells (I'd never call him town on Day1, but his gameplay looks pro-town quite much.)

Null / Ambivalent

Mastin (See my catch-up, her posts gave me strong town and scum feelings. I mean, both.)
Creature
Something_Smart
Chesskid (Actually he still looks like an over-confident townie, but what if the whole push he's making is fake? It's unnaturally strong.)
CheekyTeeky (I don't know what to think. But there have been so many players telling me that my read is wrong... and her latests are not that scummy at all.)

Lean scum

(No names here right now)

Scum

Srceenplay
Hinduragi

Unsorted

(No names here right now)

________

You need not point out that I have too few scumreads. That concerns mee too.

Also, I'd be happier if Reckoner targetted Mastina.

AND THIS:

Day 1, VC 15

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

mastina(7)

-chesskid3, Srceenplay, Creature, BigYoshiFan, singersigner, CheekyTeeky, xRECKONERx

chesskid3(3)

- GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, mastina

GuiltyLion(2)

- RadiantCowbells, Hinduragi

Katyusha(1)

- Errantparabola

Errantparabola(1)

- Katyusha

Not Voting (1):

Aneninen

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

AND THIS:

we definitely need a readlist from her before we move on in any way.

What do you think the chances of her posting a readslist D1 are?

If she's town she

must

post a readlist to help us. If she's blatantly refusing to do so, I'll hammer her.

Do not hammer Mastina until she posts her readlist!!!

Sure...when do you think that'll be...
Also, why a readslist over a claim...?

What claim?
And I don't think she won't show up in 24 hours or so.

People who can die who may or may not be scum:
Aneninen
RadiantCowbells
Errantparabola
mastina
GuiltyLion

Town, Lean town, Town, I don't know, Lean town.
Please, explain your reads. (Need not talk about Mastina again.)

All bother me. Together. If you bother to make a read list, why wouldn't you vote? There's nothing that voting someone would do that would stop you from hammering mastina.

[mastina]

Anen pinged me early as scum and then has kinda faded into the background, probably worth an iso? I'll dive in to Anen shortly and ask my team for more reasoning on Yoshi.

Honestly Aneninen has surpassed CheekyTeeky in towniness and CheekyTeeky had already climbed up in towniness pretty far.

Would it be

possible

for him to be scum, yeah, but it's not probable, and it's not even plausible. He's just not a very likely scum candidate.

(I think that I should PROBABLY try to give an updated readslist. Gimme a sec.)

[mastina]

RadiantCowbells Firebringer, Team Cuddly
Creature, Spam Squad
xRECKONERx, Dandy Irate Hoes brought to you by MATI energy
singersigner Primate, God Save The Black Goo (Reck's town, and Shea-->Reck-->soulread, so until such a time as I'm told otherwise, town)
Katyusha, eddie cane

Ghostlin Hinduragi, DEFCON (Oh hi there Ghostlin! This is recent because I checked the first page like either yesterday or Friday and you weren't there back then.)
Aneninen, Young and Beautiful

Something_Smart, Relaxed Nature

CheekyTeeky, Sauciety
Errantparabola, Make Papa Proud

GuiltyLion Serious Business (you know I keep on forgetting he's a player so he is quite seriously possibly scum from that alone)
BigYoshiFan, Backhanded Remarks (might be above GuiltyLion, but the two are really around the same level)

Srceenplay, Chillplay Bombahskiies
chesskid3, tldr: the really long name

I'd say it's something like this. It's as of the Reck post I just quoted, 1337. Still got a long ways to go. (And a short time to get there*. )

*Not really but I can't resist the reference.

[Aneninen]

Mastina, have you claimed yet?