Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Llamarble]

Well Dunnstral has redeemed his Tchill vote a bit, though not full towncred since he was in that game too and would obviously note the discrepancy even if scum.
I may rejoin the wagon tomorrow, pending rereads of the serious lynch options to see if can find one true lynch.
And I agree with TSQ on leaning Saucetown changing to Sauce town with his teamposting, paranoia is satisfied on Postie too.
CES is good as a Tchill teammate.

[Gamma Emerald]

Was going to post, thread was closed, good night time,,,

Also noticing Gamma is voting LQ who is voting Tchill???? LAter

mmm people can bus

[Gamma Emerald]

TChill ISO that's been a long time coming

Spoiler:

Hey guys I'll do a proper catch up later today.

ain't much going on here

is there anything i NEED to directly comment on?

I addressed this before but it feels like he's trying to appear to be a good little townie by asking what he "should" read.

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

doubt llamarble actully found anything that soon.

it makes sense to attack him because you could believe he's scum trying to build a wagon off false hypothetical evidence.

kinda suspect he knows a bit more than he wants to let on in this post, as well as trying to subtly push Llamarble.

And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.

I feel like this is more a product of you not understanding current MS playerbase. Which holds for the spam comment I didn't quote.

You're still laying it on and contributing to a much stronger null-because-i-want-it-to-be-null-read now.

i think this is more of a product of llamarble pushing a biased agenda. Ethier way he either genuinely believes Marquis is scum at this point or llamarble is scum.

I get scumvibes from this post but don't know why, my first guess is false dichotomy but it seems pretty sound on that front. I'm curious why he doesn't vote Llamarble at least.

Alright, I'm caught up. I'm not particulary town-reading anyone right now, though I could see Llama and N potentially being it. Want to see their reactions first.

Not all too thrilled by Marquis posts as off yet, though he could well be town yet to get properly into the game. I'm not sure, but I'm going to place my vote there for now until I get more content from him. May move if Llama or N don't explain themselves somewhat better.

VOTE: Marquis

wgeurts what exactly is wrong with the marquis posts? just feels awkward right? where's the long term scum motivation in that?

Hm gonna see if he follows up on this

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?

sauce has a "i want the spotlight on me" feel.

Alright, what do you make of that? Stating something without providing insightful thought isn't very helpful.

LQ that's a good assessment, if that gets more votes I'll vote it but I'm sticking with Marqius for now

very interesting to look back at if marquis or Sauce ever flip.

You wanna make some conclusions before letting the flips happen? Don't just leave it open to interpretation.

LQ is it weird that I responded to a thought you had and then you stated you were caught up and that you were open for questions but completely ignored that like the LAST POST had been a thought directed at you?

Or is it just me that I think that's weird.

Asking for four friends.

points to TSQ for comedy and the fact it's a bit weird.

This feels useless, also maybe pocketing

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

Marquis just seems a bit awkward but nothing super scummy from him imo.

If i had to guess 1 scum on the marquis wagon rn it's Postie. 110 percent gut read.

Mmhmm, nice to see he kept a gutread vote for so long. What the hell happened to Llamarble?

Don't like how fast the Marquis wagon got going, especially when not everyone has even checked in yet (as far as I am aware).

i don't think early wagons are bad. Get better reads late game from vote placement.

This is a fair point, I agree that early game wagons can provide some meaningful insight down the line.

LINE OF DEMARCATION
Whoever said that one guy was bussing that other guy is probably town. Wait no nevermind, I found that post and it's pretty lame.

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

How am I misguided town if I'm voting scum day 1 of day 1 when only 20% of players are scum? And I also maybe found a buddy? Wouldn't that make me... pretty awesome?

somewhat misguided, it's about your Postie read, I feel you're reading way too deep into Postie's remarks.

Also WTF Tchill you shouldn't be asking what you should comment on, you should just read and if anyone asks do what they ask

appreciate the insight.

This feels EXTREMELY empty, like, it's a bit of an empty promise, he says he caught up but we got none of it

VOTE: postie

im caught up.

As I said, no actual catch up, just a notif that he's current. Also voting a gutread over a scumread that actually could matter.

Pretty confident on Eddie Fenix and lq being town

other than the fact he made a big post what is it about Eddie?

Kinda feels like downplaying Eddie's content

oh my...

i hope "most" reads are based on in game content versus "team mafia theories"

or this is gonna be a long game.

mmm this post feels kinda shady, discredit of AD?

I'm a little alarm llamarbale is already making associations around marquis.

I agree with TSQ marquis is pretty null.

Shading and read piggybacking, nothing good here

Oh my lord that's the first two words.... Sorry...

We're on pg 7. I've yet to see a real reason marquis is scum and the fact he's already put him in a scum team seems odd to me.

mmm the first line makes sense, but question, what do you take issue with: the team itself or him making one this early?

I mean why even throw lycan in there?

Can you give a reason

not

to?

tchill are you scum dude? I don't want to let nsg go because they just disappeared without doing anything to dispel that read but also I think you might be scum.

Nope. You should look towards postie though.

redirecting attention with no real backing, no bueno

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.

The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.

What's wrong with changing votes? If they thought the wagon was good then it's fair, especially at that phase. And what about these 2 reactions?

I'm not gonna argue team mafia theories I'm just playing the game based on what's in the game.

ok...

Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.

Thanks for telling us you have zero meta on chill.

also i'd like for you to build on this.

hmm, I kinda would hav expected a little paranoia of Llamarble for townreading him like that, if I recall he was suspicious of a few people in large 204 for that reason

i guess its a fair assessment. Can't you wifom yourself with that logic though?

wifom how...

And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.

I feel like this is more a product of you not understanding current MS playerbase. Which holds for the spam comment I didn't quote.

You're still laying it on and contributing to a much stronger null-because-i-want-it-to-be-null-read now.

i think this is more of a product of llamarble pushing a biased agenda. Ethier way he either genuinely believes Marquis is scum at this point or llamarble is scum.

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?

sauce has a "i want the spotlight on me" feel.

when you are close to reading people but decide doing it properly is too much work

I actually lol'ed

Nah I feel Sauce was pretty valid to state those reads were kinda lazy

I like lycans break down of llamarbale. That makes a lot of sense. just because he's trying that doesn't mean cogito is scum though.

Just because who is trying that doesn't mean CES is scum? Also he's agreeing on a Llamarble town thought, okay.....

VOTE: Postie

I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to me

Completely disagree. Your vote should be on GE, not Postie.

Why GE? Postie feels like they're too worried about the wording of their post.

How?

LQ I was afraid you had gotten more pleasant to play with since our last encounter lol. Her posts seem very methodical. Also what's the point in not giving postie scum if they're bad at scum but can be coached through the game?

Hmm. Why's the wagon getting going on me again?

I'm still thinking postie or wgeurts are scum.

Useless post, also I am a fluffy rabbit defense maybe?

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

I really really don't like how she put reactions in a box here and said there were only two outcomes.

She's openly talked about how terrible she is at scum if I'm not mistaken and is very adamant about providing evidence for it.

I think it could easily be a situation where she's being coached up and they're using her bad scum meta to their advantage.

Ik I said I wasn't gonna talk team mafia theories but oh well.

Mmm I think you put the reactions in a box too when you said "llamarble either truly believe's marquis is scum or he's scum"

I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.

You can see the focus here is on explaining how he believes his actions differ to how you presented them - he's saying he thinks you were misrepping him.

Alright guys, got our first.

Wanna actually address my issues with you rather than say "got our first"? Or do you just want to throw shade?

So this is based on how you play then? That's alright but not everyone plays the same, so that's not a perfect method of reading people.

Then he continues to engage you, as a follow-up to his vote. From these comments I get the vibe he's not exactly 100% on his vote and is looking to get more information out of you to develop his read.

Looks pretty natural to me.

I

literally

unvoted

the second

I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her.

I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just

votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.

I think you can also very much see the frustration bleeding through here as he's trying to explain.

OK TSQ this does look townie.

I might be OMGUSing a bit here but it feels to me he's trying to send shade through Postie to me

Well I just iso'ed her. I just missed that interaction tbh. Plain and simple truth.

F A I R

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

Changes votes to a non-entity, why???

Overall thoughts: fairly scummy, seems to be taking to shading people, voting doesn't make the most sense, seems a bit defensive.
VOTE: Tchill
I'd rather vote this until I can articulate my read on LQ, at the very least

[ActionDan]

skimmed thread when it was locked.

a) Am I missing something with prods because I posted an anti-prod kick the can down the road post but that didn't seem to count
b) Rolling with Sauce town now because of their explanation for the switch, potential WIFOM not withstanding.

I'll post more tonight

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.23

Tchill13(5)

~ Thestatusquo, northsidegal, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral, Gamma Emerald

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

Llamarble(1)

~ Sauce

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ ActionDan

EddieFenix(1)

~ Postie

Davsto(1)

~ Tchill13

Cogito Ergo Sum(1)

~ Lycanfire


Not Voting (4): Davsto, Llamarble, Cogito Ergo Sum, EddieFenix

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-05 21:00:00)

As a note prod timers were extended due to the lock but I will be checking them after work today.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.

So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

I'm not saying scum don't have town reads, but rather that hunting for them is a thing town does, not scum. It's easy to make up town reads when you're scum. Obsessively checking your town reads is a town tell, not a scum one. The claim wasn't that he was "too focused on having town reads" but rather that he was "too focused on getting town reads

right

" Emphasis mine. Scum doesn't need to focus on if they're getting their town reads right. They ALREADY KNOW their town reads are right.

[northsidegal]

basically a prodge, will post later today. confident in calling sauce's slot basically conftown.

[Gamma Emerald]

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

I'm not saying scum don't have town reads, but rather that hunting for them is a thing town does, not scum. It's easy to make up town reads when you're scum. Obsessively checking your town reads is a town tell, not a scum one. The claim wasn't that he was "too focused on having town reads" but rather that he was "too focused on getting town reads

right

" Emphasis mine. Scum doesn't need to focus on if they're getting their town reads right. They ALREADY KNOW their town reads are right.

Alright, this makes sense.
I read this earlier and for someone reason chose not to respond and just left, but yeah, thanks for the help.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

Let's keep this going, I wasn't even in this game but it just ended (he posted in it more recently than this game):

Spoiler:

Oh look, he's the top post count again. Literally hundreds of posts as town, a gain. And he was actively posting in this game but disappears for this one

When you incessantly spam games with hundreds and hundreds of posts and basically make games less pleasent you BETTER BELIEVE I'm going to call you out for it the second you roll scum and start lurking

[LicketyQuickety]

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

I've only see chill as Scum so this is very telling to me considering I was already SRing him based on what I know of his Scum game.

Let's keep this going, I wasn't even in this game but it just ended (he posted in it more recently than this game):

Spoiler:

Oh look, he's the top post count again. Literally hundreds of posts as town, a gain. And he was actively posting in this game but disappears for this one

When you incessantly spam games with hundreds and hundreds of posts and basically make games less pleasent you BETTER BELIEVE I'm going to call you out for it the second you roll scum and start lurking

I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.

So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.

This post could be telling if Chill flips Scum because I don't get at all why GE is voting Chill and then makes this case on me. It doesn't make any sense at all.



I will say tho that there is little to no resistance on the chill wagon which has me slightly worried that Town is in a bad spot here.

[LicketyQuickety]

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

Let's keep this going, I wasn't even in this game but it just ended (he posted in it more recently than this game):

Spoiler:

Oh look, he's the top post count again. Literally hundreds of posts as town, a gain. And he was actively posting in this game but disappears for this one

When you incessantly spam games with hundreds and hundreds of posts and basically make games less pleasent you BETTER BELIEVE I'm going to call you out for it the second you roll scum and start lurking

I've only see chill as Scum so this is very telling to me considering I was already SRing him based on what I know of his Scum game.

I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.

So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.

This post could be telling if Chill flips Scum because I don't get at all why GE is voting Chill and then makes this case on me. It doesn't make any sense at all.



I will say tho that there is little to no resistance on the chill wagon which has me slightly worried that Town is in a bad spot here.

EBWOP, I accidentally put my comment inside Dunns post the first time around.

[Gamma Emerald]

Um what? Am I not allowed to have multiple scumreads? I had promised an explanation of why I scumread you, and I did it. And if you're trying to imply I'm scum with that, why would I not vote you instead?

[Lycanfire]

I'm pretty sure all of Team Mafia has scum daytalk, bud.

That's my mistake.

No intentions of taking some aggression here and seeing what bites?

None of this is true.

There's only one real answer to my original argument if you're scum.

These posts are a real waste of energy. Who's scum?

--

Davsto catchup so far is townie

Explain like I'm five.

Gamma wasn't acting human in 256. Your 323 amounts to "there is no suspicious activity here, fellow humans!" It isn't that I disagree with you that makes that post scummy, it's that it's a genuine shit post.

I'm not sure how to explain the things you're confused by any better than I already have, and you seem to be ignoring 90% of my reasons for scumreading Eddie in favour of nitpicking this one thing. I don't know what else to say to you because this is such an astronomically skewed interpretation of events. I don't think we're going to mesh well this game.

I've read your entire case on Eddie. I'm telling you that the premise of your original push was all right, but you've since locked yourself into a tunnel. See my last point in 606. You're not making much sense by the tail end of your push. You're welcome to start making more sense if you want a serious wagon to get going.

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

Hold the phone. It was a pure defense of Eddie in that post. Maybe nobody else bothered to open the spoiler (why are people doing this? clip your fucking quotes and make enough sense the first time around) but you essentially said he blank votes you and ended up blaming Shea for Eddie's behavior. Don't dish it if you can't take it.

I can say I really don't like your 'holier than thou' attitude.

For the first question, you are implying that your Scum reads are the only ones you plan on sorting? This means you would not be reevaluating your Town reads, which I think is an incorrect way to approach the game.

Who said anything about townreads? This is about my supposedly permanent 6 player scum pool. Seems fitting, there's a lot of shit in stagnant water.

I am not talking to you in post 434, I am talking to Town to see what they have to say about it.

How many times did you rewrite the original post?

It's more that your wording paints a picture that ends up giving more emphasis to points that are not as well substantiated. In other words, I am saying your words are charismatic and your words are stronger than the evidence of what you are actually saying.

It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's

The

Balki

Attack!

Your perceived threat of my posts says more about you than it says about me.

Difficult to read players that I don't have any special reason to believe are town
Postie - paranoid about this one especially because "wait why are we townreading this player" happens a lot with scum
CES

...

Serious D1 Lynch Options:
Marquis
Eddie

AD
LQ
Tchill

How are you rationalizing the current wagons?

Eddie, GE, why aren't you voting?

Because I originally was voting GE, after a back and forth, I unvoted them. I'm also waiting for fresh blood/meat to get in here to sort some of those damn null spots I have in my reads. Marathon, CES.

What fresh blood? Who do you want to have post? Call them out.

---

Marquis catchup acceptable for now, must make a vote before EoD.

Unvote, vote: Postie

What point were you trying to make in your previous post exactly?

Clipping the fuck out of Sauce's post because the less I let it influence me the better I can perform. Most notably from this post and in the two that follow Sauce drops their posting gimmick.

Yes, currently we have 11/15 players (including yourself!) not voting for someone useful.

VOTE: Tchill

I still feel best about CES+Dan.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lycan that's a GROSS oversummarization of my work. Did you not see the questions I asked him? The times I poked him on things? I was trying to assess him genuinely, and obviously you aren't doing the same for me. As for your actual thoughts, I recall that vote was sheeping Shea, plus later he asks for a larger wagon to put pressure on me, so that is a likely reason as well. As for blaming Shea I'm not sure what you mean? I'm gonna have to check that again.

[Postie]

Postie:
In the first link you self meta a bit mentioning you're prone to "can you" questions as scum
You have 3 can yous in this game.

I can't find what you're talking about from that first link (do you mean the bottom link?) but that's correct, or was at one point. Things have shifted a lot since then though; I make a conscious effort not to phrase questions that way as scum now, and I've just naturally been doing it a lot more as town for some reason. I'd say 3 is pretty average. If you CTRL+F my ISO in the town games that those first two quotes are from, you'll see the phrasing show up there.

Do you really think Eddie is scum? I may be falling for 'too scummy to be scum' here, idk.
Like, yeah, he is not performing the basic functions of a town, but is that because he's scum? Not sure.

I'll admit the way he seems to be almost actively avoiding producing reads when pushed for them feels potentially... too-stubborn-to-be-scum? But he also hasn't really been under a lot of pressure since I seem to be the only one wanting to lynch him.
What I can't get over is the fact that he's written paragraphs and paragraphs of content, and

none

of it means anything wrt game-solving. Like I can't understand how you can have that much to say about the game while having nothing to say about the game. I'm not sure how to read it as anything other than busywork when it contains neither a reads progression nor any lines of questioning that are meaningfully pursued or lead to conclusions.
In other words it's not that he's failing to do town things, it's that he's trying to pass off fluffy IIoA-laden busyworky garbage as doing town things.

What fraction of your team mafia time is going into this game?

Around 68% I think.

[Postie]

What's the point of this

To show it's NAI

[Gamma Emerald]

ok yeah what part of my post to Eddie says I'm blaming Shea for anything Eddie did?

[Gamma Emerald]

What's the point of this

To show it's NAI

weren't those all town games of yours
if you wanted to show it's NAI you should have included scumgames

[Postie]

Okay, so it's either NAI or town indicative
The important part is that it's not a scum thing

[Thestatusquo]

Hey Davsto have you finished reading yet?

[Davsto]

well i had college today and had my gf over until now because she was feeling down and needed support so i'm gonna say no but i'm gonna get to page 10

[Llamarble]

Yeah ok.
VOTE: Tchill
My guess going into Night One is Tchill CES AD. Gamma has done a few things that do me a concern but overall is still probably town.
(although AD's "I doubt Chess would give a different read on Eddie" gives me a reservation there, so probably just CES next if Tchillscum)

Let's let Tchill say something before hammer, maybe he's just waiting for his moment to obvtown, but I don't see a better lynch for today.

[Llamarble]

I still don't know what to make of Eddie saying Tchill "REEKS" of scum but showing no interest in pursuing that avenue.
I bet he'll randomly show up and hammer and cement himself as the D2 lynch or something.

[Thestatusquo]

I bet he'll randomly show up and hammer and cement himself as the D2 lynch or something.

What is the purpose of this statement?