Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Creature]

Why Smocaine? Did chesskid really expose two of his teammates?

[Aneninen]

Returning to my PoE:

Aneninen

Katyusha
Ghostlin (Hinduragi)

RadiantCowbells

Something_Smart

signersinger (Primate)
Errantparabola

Srceenplay

Smocaine (chesskid3)

GuiltyLion

BigYoshiFan

Creature

[...]
Wild guess:
Last scum is signersinger/Primate.

I doubt it.
Singersinger expressed her scumread on Mastina regardless of Chesskid.
It didn't take long for her after replacing in to vote for Mastina.
As scum she could have started a wagon against me any time when Mastina was going down.

I think you are ruling out Aneninen prematurely. They even understand why they should be suspicious. Announcing it themselves is not a town tell. Especially in this situation where they are the last scum left trying their hardest to be town read.

Indeed.
What do you think of Chesskind/Smocaine?

i felt the way rc engaged (or rather refused to) with me while I was scumreading hinduragi was from him not really wanting me to develop that read any further, and with how hard mastina and rc were set on buddying me that felt really out of place. plus mastina's townread of him was really out of place

However, your vote was on Errant, who's only the third scummiest according to your list in the same post.

I am full steam either Aneninen or Errant after RC.

I need to parse through how I feel about the vengeful after answers from beeboy (confirm that only town would get to use the shot and that it counts at any point of death).

Assuming it's working only during the Day phase, you should elect me. Even I know that I shouldn't be here at LyLo and I doubt that I'll get Nightkilled. (If the scum targets me to get rid of the Venge-kill, they must use up a shot for a lynch-able player instead of an obv-town one.)

Also GL is town.

I didn't like his Day2 entry.
Who do you think the scum is then?

[Srceenplay]

Why Smocaine? Did chesskid really expose two of his teammates?

Paranoid. That’s it.

[Aneninen]

Be suspicious of
Anemone
Smoc

Yoshi

GL

FIFY
I don't think Yoshi's scum and he was on the Mastina wagon.

@Mod, I think a post deletion is needed at 3123.

[Srceenplay]

Mod, I think a post deletion is needed at 3123.

Really?
It’s vague
Unspecific
Nothing quoted
Nothing ai

[Srceenplay]

Be suspicious of
Anemone
Smoc

Yoshi

GL

FIFY
I don't think Yoshi's scum and he was on the Mastina wagon.

You are right. Yoshi was originally gut and iirc because of the interactions I saw between you two.
He was an associative assumption.

[Aneninen]

Let's see some ISOs.
I know you hate them but right now I'm searching for specific things. Namely, interactions with Mastina and RadiantCowbells.

Hinduragi/Ghostlin

– previously scumread

Spoiler:

563 –

"Is mastina being voted rn?"

– is FoS. At that time there was indeed a wagon on Mastina. Why did he ask that? Checking the content of the post it seems to be off. (And RadiantCowbells answered it quickly...)

581

"Also, I really don't want to lynch mastina because we need a nice person in this game tbh."

– Erm...

614

"Ok I iso'd mastina and her vote was actually p bad"

and 619

"Not gonna lynch her but I see why you voted. But trying to rush the quicklynch is god awful"

(Check out the Cheeky's post above too!!!) – Need I comment how scummy these look right now? 687 is a soft-defense on Mastina.

790 – defending Mastina again. Also, he said his strongest scumread was me, but his vote was on Cheeky. (Later he moved his vote.)

938 –

"Chess kid/mastina 1v1 is lulz and I’m not doing that either. Let’s lynch someone else please"

– Why do I think it meant: "Don't lynch Mastina"?

1333 –

"Mastina, you're being anti-town by LLD's standards and you have 24 hours to cease adding fuel to RC/CK3. LLD has told me if you don't comply, I'm to park my vote on you and only you for D1. If you're not lynched, LLD is trading in and doing it herself."

– the only thing agaist Mastina so far. But it can be fake too... and his vote was, again, somewhere else. (This time on Yoshi. Was he trying to launch a counter?)

1579 – Long post, hard to read, little real content. (At that point he was wagoned.)

1667 –

"The fact that my wagon reached so many votes so fast should be extremely telling. Like, hey, maybe there’s scum all over it. But no, it’s back to chesskid or mastina must be scum."

– My first guess is, he wasn't happy that either him or Mastina was in danger.

1699 –

"Also, LLD has stated mastina might be third scum but even if she is, lynching her doesn't break the game. Yoshi lynch is what will hurt scum, she thinks."

– WHUT???!

1821 –

"The real thing is: just focus on other things and do what you can to find scum that others aren't really looking at. So far, this entire game has mostly been between you/chesskid/me/reck/mastina and that's it."

– Sounds desperate. Five names, three scum amongst them. (Actually what he said was not entirely true.)

2504 – Too long to quote it here; it sounds fake (but I might be wrong?).

2507 –

"RC isn't scum and won't be even if mastina flips town/scum."

– Wow.

Wow.

WOW!

– Aaaand check out 2510–2511 too, at their original place!!!

Later there were more "I don't know what to think of Mastina"-s and he voted for Reckoner again. It seems he was trying to launch a viable counter all the time. Also, as far as I can see

he had not a single direct interaction with Mastina!

As for RadiantCowbells, he developed a strong townread on him, in 134. They had some interaction later, but his read didn't change. (Hinduragi explained RC that Chesskid was town, for example.)

As for

Ghostlin

, check out 2981 about Mastina! What should I think of the end of 2996. It was for me and he was right from a point of view, but what about the part about Mastina?

In 3002 he might have wanted to widen the lynch pool. But, it is worth reading the whole interaction between Ghostlin and me. If you think I'm the scummier, examine it because of that. Also, mind the end of 3002:

"P-EDIT: I'm hindu's replacement, mastina. Hello."

– Post-edit. Mastina was named. Now, check out the close context of the post!!!

Not much about RadiantCowbells; if you check our interaction, basically you'll find everything.

TL;DR – Although I'll try to break down the others who weren't on the Mastina wagon too, it will happen later. But now, I don't think I'll find

anyone

who'll look scummier than Hinduragi/Ghostlin. He seems to be the third one!

[Aneninen]

Be suspicious of
Anemone
Smoc

Yoshi

GL

FIFY
I don't think Yoshi's scum and he was on the Mastina wagon.

You are right. Yoshi was originally gut and iirc because of the interactions I saw between you two.
He was an associative assumption.

Unless RC flips town (which I really, really doubt) it's impossible that both Yoshi and I are scum.

What do you think of Ghostlin?

(Also, you're not on my scumlist right now, because of the Mastina wagon.)

[Creature]

Anemone lol

[Creature]

So third scum is Ghostlin?

[Ghostlin]

First of all, if RC is scum, it matters less if the game is 3:11 who we give Vengeful to except RC--if we give it to scum and lynch then on Day 3, we win anyway; if we lynch a townie they can venge-shoot someone, essentially giving us another lynch.

[Katyusha]

Anen my vote was on ep because at the time I sided against chesskid

Ep is still possible scum but from flipped scum ISO’s to me it seems more likely the ghostlin slot

Pedit: exactly

The elect is basically choosing tomorrow’s lynch

[Ghostlin]

As for Ghostlin, check out 2981 about Mastina! What should I think of the end of 2996. It was for me and he was right from

a point of view

(1), but what about the part about Mastina? (2)

In 3002 he might have wanted to widen the lynch pool. But, it is worth reading the whole interaction between Ghostlin and me. If you think I'm the scummier, examine it because of that. Also, mind the end of 3002: "P-EDIT: I'm hindu's replacement, mastina. Hello." – Post-edit. Mastina was named. Now, check out the close context of the post!!!

Not much about RadiantCowbells; if you check our interaction, basically you'll find everything.

1) Anyone who has to put 'from a point of view' at the end of their sentence is:

*A politician
*Trying to dodge what they did
*Lying to your face
*All of the above

You didn't vote. You pushed a null read. You were twitchy over the hammer and you so desperately didn't want to called mastina's scum buddy. I even pointed out how odd it was yesterday. You seem reluctant to be associated with mastina throughout and wanted to seem to be very Town with your hammer.

2) I can only presume you're referring to this:

A. Please tell me that's not it. Please also tell me we're lynching chess if for some reason that's it, the only reason, and mastina flips Town.

I'm just not gonna hide it: if chess had set up RC and mastina because he was afraid of them as scum, his slot would richly deserve getting lynched today. It seems that chess was right about mastina, and seems to be right about RC. I was wrong about CHESSKID.

3) Couldn't be I know mastina and she was like 'oh, Ghostlin joined the party' in 2998 for the reason I went 'I'm hindu's replacement, mastina. Hello.' And if we were scum together, why would we have this interaction since we'd be on together at the same time and I would of been added to the scum chat?

You can elect me if you'd like, and if you lynch me tomorrow, I will sincerely shoot whoever Town wants me to shoot. In fact, if it gets you all off, I'll

Elect: Ghostlin

[Katyusha]

ghostlin if you're town i'd appreciate it if you asserted your own reads instead of selfing and throwing yourself away that easily

it goes a long way into reading you

can you unpack your anen scumread more?

[Ghostlin]

A short reason why I feel Anen is scum:

Actually, Reckoner, here's something you could consider.
If Mastina gets lynched and flips scum, I'll look just as scummy as RadiantCowbells, I guess.

From your point of view

, either RC or me could be scum. If you pick randomly either of us and you die, your target is an auto-lynch. However, if both of us are town the scum have to guess where you are.

From another point of view

, if you're scum you can fake anything so your PR won't help us at all.

If Mastina gets lynched and flips town, you may do a similar pick between RadiantCowbells and Hinduragi. But I'm not sure about this. (It could be me again, if you wish.)

This is 'from a certain point of view' posting. Anen's either playing a Town slot or he's not--and if he's playing a Town slot, he should be interacting with Reck from that point of view--he needs to persuade Reck and really? if you're Town, you can't really entertain the whole 'from a different point of view, this is what it looks like'.

This. ALL of it. (Well, I omitted a few sections about chesskid as town which don't apply.) This is dead on the money, for both why chesskid is scum and why Screenplay is also scum.

Frankly the closest thing

I'd have to a reason to suspect Aneninen right now is because this level of competency is more than I'd expect from him as town.

Butyeah.

The everything there is right.

Whut?
Me?
Competent?
The one who picked a wrong way to catch up?
The one who forgot to vote?
The one who posted a terrible idea for Reckoner how to hide?
And the one who turned out not reading the game description?

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Why do I feel that you're going down and want the town see me as your scumbuddy later?
Thanks, but no.
I can create my own shyt alone.

This is a really large freak-out for a possible interaction to mastina. Really big. I've never seen a Town slot go 'holy shit, I might be seen as your scumbuddy, I'd better rebuff it quickly.'

Why do I feel that you're going down and want the town see me as your scumbuddy later?
Thanks, but no.
I can create my own shyt alone.

For someone who you read as null earlier this is a fucking weird thing to say. Why do you care about this so much?

Why? Why?
Right now I think there are MANY things can be told about my gameplay. Competent is definitely NOT among'st those words.
I simply can't see a world where Mastina thought

genuinely

that I was more competent than she had thought.

Reverse proof of competency fallacy--also if you're this self-aware, shouldn't you be taking steps to address this?

I've been thinking.

It's

very unlikely

that the scum were bussing on Day1. Regardless of Chesskid's Elli-read (and I still doubt that the program works), it was clear that plenty of players had been scumreading Mastina

and

it was decided that Reckoner would target RadiantCowbells. Which means, the scum team could see it as a strong possibility that only one of them will get past Day2!

So, we should examine the following players: GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Ghostlin, ErrantParabola, Katyusha.

As for the Mastina-wagon, two players are more likely scum than the others:
– Chesskid/Smokaine. I still can't rule out that the whole Day1 with that Elli-read was planned by the scumteam. It's a highly risky move, but I can imagine such a gameplay for a scumteam which includes Mastina and RadiantCowbells.
– And me. I refused to get a read on RadiantCowbells and developed a scumread on Mastina only at the end of the Day. It sounds just as risky, but yet again, I had at least as risky moves as scum in the past.


RadiantCowbells must be lynched.

If he somehow happen to flip town, there may be some strange mechanics behind. But, we shouldn't speculate about that right now. Also, there's a thin chance that Reckoner changed his mind in the very last moment and picked me, partly because of my 3037.

(You may think my idea was terrible, but keep that in mind that I wanted to see some answers for it, which never happened because the Day ended.)

That said, if RC flips town, I'm an auto-lynch.

That's the second thing which tells us I should never get to LyLo, so I suppose I'm to get the invention. Assuming we decide it collectively whom I should target, because I s-ck at being a Town-Killing PR.

Elect: Aneninen

I don't insist on it, so if anyone has a better idea for the Invention, fire it away!

He LITERALLY ENDED DAY. He couldn't wait six days to see how his suggestion worked out? Also hold onto that list for a minute...

Let's see some ISOs.
I know you hate them but right now I'm searching for specific things. Namely, interactions with Mastina and RadiantCowbells.

Hinduragi/Ghostlin

– previously scumread

Spoiler:

563 –

"Is mastina being voted rn?"

– is FoS. At that time there was indeed a wagon on Mastina. Why did he ask that? Checking the content of the post it seems to be off. (And RadiantCowbells answered it quickly...)

581

"Also, I really don't want to lynch mastina because we need a nice person in this game tbh."

– Erm...

614

"Ok I iso'd mastina and her vote was actually p bad"

and 619

"Not gonna lynch her but I see why you voted. But trying to rush the quicklynch is god awful"

(Check out the Cheeky's post above too!!!) – Need I comment how scummy these look right now? 687 is a soft-defense on Mastina.

790 – defending Mastina again. Also, he said his strongest scumread was me, but his vote was on Cheeky. (Later he moved his vote.)

938 –

"Chess kid/mastina 1v1 is lulz and I’m not doing that either. Let’s lynch someone else please"

– Why do I think it meant: "Don't lynch Mastina"?

1333 –

"Mastina, you're being anti-town by LLD's standards and you have 24 hours to cease adding fuel to RC/CK3. LLD has told me if you don't comply, I'm to park my vote on you and only you for D1. If you're not lynched, LLD is trading in and doing it herself."

– the only thing agaist Mastina so far. But it can be fake too... and his vote was, again, somewhere else. (This time on Yoshi. Was he trying to launch a counter?)

1579 – Long post, hard to read, little real content. (At that point he was wagoned.)

1667 –

"The fact that my wagon reached so many votes so fast should be extremely telling. Like, hey, maybe there’s scum all over it. But no, it’s back to chesskid or mastina must be scum."

– My first guess is, he wasn't happy that either him or Mastina was in danger.

1699 –

"Also, LLD has stated mastina might be third scum but even if she is, lynching her doesn't break the game. Yoshi lynch is what will hurt scum, she thinks."

– WHUT???!

1821 –

"The real thing is: just focus on other things and do what you can to find scum that others aren't really looking at. So far, this entire game has mostly been between you/chesskid/me/reck/mastina and that's it."

– Sounds desperate. Five names, three scum amongst them. (Actually what he said was not entirely true.)

2504 – Too long to quote it here; it sounds fake (but I might be wrong?).

2507 –

"RC isn't scum and won't be even if mastina flips town/scum."

– Wow.

Wow.

WOW!

– Aaaand check out 2510–2511 too, at their original place!!!

Later there were more "I don't know what to think of Mastina"-s and he voted for Reckoner again. It seems he was trying to launch a viable counter all the time. Also, as far as I can see

he had not a single direct interaction with Mastina!

As for RadiantCowbells, he developed a strong townread on him, in 134. They had some interaction later, but his read didn't change. (Hinduragi explained RC that Chesskid was town, for example.)

As for

Ghostlin

, check out 2981 about Mastina! What should I think of the end of 2996. It was for me and he was right from a point of view, but what about the part about Mastina?

In 3002 he might have wanted to widen the lynch pool. But, it is worth reading the whole interaction between Ghostlin and me. If you think I'm the scummier, examine it because of that. Also, mind the end of 3002:

"P-EDIT: I'm hindu's replacement, mastina. Hello."

– Post-edit. Mastina was named. Now, check out the close context of the post!!!

Not much about RadiantCowbells; if you check our interaction, basically you'll find everything.

TL;DR – Although I'll try to break down the others who weren't on the Mastina wagon too, it will happen later. But now, I don't think I'll find

anyone

who'll look scummier than Hinduragi/Ghostlin. He seems to be the third one!

...no, just kidding, it's my slot. He's picking my slot for final scum.

[Katyusha]

my only issue is i feel like a lot of that does make sense for town

1. i dont really see why 'from a certain pov'-esque posting is scummy, especially in the specific instance you pointed out. he's trying to engage with reck and explain why he thinks picking him as a hider is a good option from reck's perspective (it's not, there's definitely scum equity in trying to muddy the hider clear as scum, but that's not your argument and it's also stupid to do that when you know you will be solo scum). explaining why it's a good move from anen's pov doesn't make sense

2. i mean this is around the point where anen turned around on mastina, before he was nullreading her and then he ultimately hammered her. if you read his iso theres kind of a clear trajectory where this turns into a scumread and this was basically the turning point for that. i think someone seeing mastina interact with that could trigger something within them that makes it clear she's trying to buddy because he obviously didnt feel great about his play this game.

i do agree the overreaction looks strange especially because mastina actually was scum but beyond the surface it's not too unreasonable to me

3. how does one take steps to fix incompetency in the midst of a single game? like how big of a frame are you talking here

like im conscious my play this game has been godawful but there's not really much i can do about it besides trucking on. maybe i'll redeem myself and find the third scum first. who the fuck knows

4. the point about him not waiting is weird, yes, but like his hider plan was immediately trashed down. i can see town who decided they were done waiting for mastina to not really find reck's input that important as a result but still remind him about it if he's there in twilight. i've literally done that by accident as town in a similar situation as well because i missed a jailkeeper's crumbs and it not only threw off the whole game but almost got me mislynched

5/6: Read the list again - there's no contradiction here. His read list is obviously not ordered.

Who are your alternate options again?

[BigYoshiFan]

So.... is this vengeful going to someone who we think is scummy, and then we lynch them tomorrow? I will gladly propose Ghostlin if that is the case.
Ghostlin/RC scumteam. Locked and loaded guys.

[Katyusha]

Yeah, no reason to give it to anyone else

[Creature]

I want the VC.

Though, I agree on giving Ghostlin the vengeful.

[BigYoshiFan]

Alright cool.

Elect Ghostlin

That also means the next day will be relatively mellow. Phew.

[Katyusha]

I don’t really want to coast though, at some point we should go through everyone and be certain about our reads. Don’t know how useful my teammates will be here considering eddie is positive it’s just ghostlin, Lycan and Titus don’t check in too often, and jj isn’t following this one too closely. I could just be blabbering and we just win tomorrow but like

I’ve been through the “D1/2 powertown, late game fizzle our and scum wins 3p lylo somehow” situation far too often and getting reads on solo scum is WAY more challenging than normal, and fighting the inevitable town apathy is the way to go here

\_O_/

[Katyusha]

To emphasize I’m not saying we stall and don’t get the flip now, just at some point toDay or toMorrow we consider future lynches

Eddie chewed me out in the discord bc he was like “doing nothing for a week is worse!!” but I’m not saying we do nothing

Lmao - i’ll start cracking on this Friday if we don’t lynch raybells by then

[singersigner]

elect: Ghostlin

I feel dirty electing anyone for this one as I feel like it's just really dumb, but as his reads currently line up with mine, keeping him alive isn't a bad thing!

@Aneninen...what the FUCK is the significance of pointing out Ghostlin's preview edit to Mastina when Mastina was still saying "hindu" was scummy?

Perfectly fine voting for RC but I would LOVE to hear more from Errant.................................

[Katyusha]

singer if you think ghost is town venging him isn’t a good idea

The person we elect is tomorrow’s lynch locked in so you should probably be electing your top scumread....

also it’s not dumb at all considering we’re in evens

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh yeah uh forewarning

you have until about this time tomorrow before I make it impossible to get anything done so any town discussion you want to do you should get in before that.