Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Titus]

Forgot A50 in lean scum. Please add him.

[T-Bone]

This is Titus when she replaces into a scumslot. Go ahead and look at her 'needs to die' reasoning, and you'll see it.

[Bulbazak]

@Fitz: Thought about this last night, but bed and all that: Can you explain why you have a high townread of me? You said nothing about me at all in your catchup, and I would have expected at least some mention of something you agreed with, or even just my tiff with Skirt that led to my taking time completely away from the game. You mentioned the LLD explosion, but nothing about my V/LA that came before that. I found that odd.

[Titus]

This is Titus when she replaces into a scumslot. Go ahead and look at her 'needs to die' reasoning, and you'll see it.

Why don't you explain why you are doubtcasting me here rather than stating both me and Transcend catching you is scummy? Oh wait, doubtcasting is what you do. You did the same tactic on Transcend earlier.

Do you have any engagement on the reads I have put out at the moment aside from the one on you or are you trying to create drama to get me lynched and ignored?

[Titus]

@Fitz: Thought about this last night, but bed and all that: Can you explain why you have a high townread of me? You said nothing about me at all in your catchup, and I would have expected at least some mention of something you agreed with, or even just my tiff with Skirt that led to my taking time completely away from the game. You mentioned the LLD explosion, but nothing about my V/LA that came before that. I found that odd.

Oh I forgot to mention LLD slot I am reading based on votes because LLD is very capable of angry scum. I just don't see the game dying on equal wagkns if LLD slot scum.

[T-Bone]

SNIP

SNIP

Just to follow up with you, this resonates with me for many of the reasons you (or RC) have described. I personally find Titus to be a transparent player as to when she is town (and thus, inversely, when she isn't). I know people like to cite "meta" or "moonlogic" but it is honestly much more simpler than that. Titus has slid into this game in the same exact spot her predecessor's left. Her reads are the same, and more importantly, nonsensical in their nature, from what little she has let on.

Now, you might say "well, of course, her reads are the same, her team is confirmed town to her" and you may be right. Her nonsensical reads might be due to her team giving quick reads, and that might be a fair assessment. Except Skirt is still on her team, and he paid attention to our game, and he had the same problems with his reads.

[Bulbazak]

@Titus: Can you repost the list in a way that's easier for me to parse? I'm unsure about where the line of degrees are for some of your reads.

I will try.

Lock town: Me
Strong Town: Fitz Bulba Dunker
Weak Town: Elena
Gun to my head town: Mathdino Aeronaut Chesskid
Null: Leftovers
Weak scum: Keychain CDB Bins



Needs to die: TBone (Has extremely passive voting, reacted extremely negative to me trying to get Bins to assess his read, defensive snark (what I am calling it) when interacting with Transcend. Deflects all attempts to read him with omgus.

Just what are you agreeing with Bulba?

I agree with Dunker and Math (gun to head is a good way to phrase it). I'd add Radja to the strong town category, for similar reasons to Dunker (assuming we're reading the slots the same way). I'm town on Elena now. I had an initial scum ping when I first started reading, but I really liked how she changed stances on LLD and didn't think that came from scum. I'm less certain now. A lot of players I trust are saying that she's probably scum. So I'm trying to figure out why the players who townread her do so and why the players that think she's scum think so. I haven't gotten a reply on that yet. I guess until then I agree with you on weak town, even though I want the read to be stronger one way or the other. Surprisingly, I think we might agree on Key. I didn't like his entrance, and I haven't seen anything that'd make me think town. Granted, I haven't seen anything explicitly scum, either, so he's probably further up the null category for me. Mainly, I'm trusting my townreads on this one, but it's not something I believe myself. I'd like to know what you're seeing there.

As for CDB and Chess, they're kinda *shrug*. Chess I'm giving time to get in fully, so not interested in looking that direction today. CDB I don't feel particularly one way or the other. I'd like you to go more into Aero, because he is similar to CDB for me.

P-edit: I was going to ask that, forgot, then saw your reasoning. That's cool.

[Bulbazak]

That last part was to Titus about Fitz.

[T-Bone]

This is Titus when she replaces into a scumslot. Go ahead and look at her 'needs to die' reasoning, and you'll see it.

Why don't you explain why you are doubtcasting me here rather than stating both me and Transcend catching you is scummy? Oh wait, doubtcasting is what you do. You did the same tactic on Transcend earlier.

Do you have any engagement on the reads I have put out at the moment aside from the one on you or are you trying to create drama to get me lynched and ignored?

Well, if you had caught up with the game and or if your team was following a town slot, you would have known that I repeatedly criticized Skirt for having empty reads with nothing behind him. And you've trotted out the same reads with...reasons that are copypasta (and not to mention also empty). OMGUS? Really? That is what you're going to hang your hat on? That's how you're gonna convince me (or anyone else) that your read on me is genuine and not because I've been on your slot for most of the game?

Absolutely no progression in your reads at all...and in fact, I would argue there are regressions.

But, by now you should know, that I'm not arguing with a scumread. It's not you I have to convince that you're scum, you know the truth either way. It is everyone else I have to convince.

If you are interested in discussing reads with me, by all means, let's go. But don't pretend you've published an amazing citation on why you think I'm scum.

[Titus]

Her reads are the same, and more importantly, nonsensical in their nature, from what little she has let on.

Now, you might say "well, of course, her reads are the same, her team is confirmed town to her" and you may be right. Her nonsensical reads might be due to her team giving quick reads, and that might be a fair assessment. Except Skirt is still on her team, and he paid attention to our game, and he had the same problems with his reads.

VCA is not "nonsense". You also have put zero effort into understanding or sorting me at all. Second, I don't 100% agree with my team. If I was playing solo, I probably would still be voting Bins.

Again, I still have no idea which reads you actually dispute as inaccurate despite putting this to you as a direct question. This reeks of scum just wanting to shade me as putting out jibberish to disciurage engagement and substantive thought rather than contributing to the thread and sorting my alignment.

Everytime you try to argue with loaded phrases rather than ask questions or solve things I will call you out on it(unless my team and TRs get annoyed).

[Titus]

@Titus: Can you repost the list in a way that's easier for me to parse? I'm unsure about where the line of degrees are for some of your reads.

I will try.

Lock town: Me
Strong Town: Fitz Bulba Dunker
Weak Town: Elena
Gun to my head town: Mathdino Aeronaut Chesskid
Null: Leftovers
Weak scum: Keychain CDB Bins



Needs to die: TBone (Has extremely passive voting, reacted extremely negative to me trying to get Bins to assess his read, defensive snark (what I am calling it) when interacting with Transcend. Deflects all attempts to read him with omgus.

Just what are you agreeing with Bulba?

I agree with Dunker and Math (gun to head is a good way to phrase it). I'd add Radja to the strong town category, for similar reasons to Dunker (assuming we're reading the slots the same way). I'm town on Elena now. I had an initial scum ping when I first started reading, but I really liked how she changed stances on LLD and didn't think that came from scum. I'm less certain now. A lot of players I trust are saying that she's probably scum. So I'm trying to figure out why the players who townread her do so and why the players that think she's scum think so. I haven't gotten a reply on that yet. I guess until then I agree with you on weak town, even though I want the read to be stronger one way or the other. Surprisingly, I think we might agree on Key. I didn't like his entrance, and I haven't seen anything that'd make me think town. Granted, I haven't seen anything explicitly scum, either, so he's probably further up the null category for me. Mainly, I'm trusting my townreads on this one, but it's not something I believe myself. I'd like to know what you're seeing there.

As for CDB and Chess, they're kinda *shrug*. Chess I'm giving time to get in fully, so not interested in looking that direction today. CDB I don't feel particularly one way or the other. I'd like you to go more into Aero, because he is similar to CDB for me.

P-edit: I was going to ask that, forgot, then saw your reasoning. That's cool.

We're not. I am townreading Dunker for his vote on TBone because the wagon on Transcend seems to be retalitory for Transcend catching Tbone. The LLD wagon appears to have formed for removing her vote on us. I don't see how Radja enters that equation.

I am reading Key through Radiant Cowbells. We have been watching each other play on Mafia Universe where I have been honing my early game VCA but it's not perfect yet. An indicator of whether or not the early wagons are good is the number of players participating in major wagons close to deadline. The fewer, the less likely a wagon is on scum (heavy busses happen though). This is the wagon participation rate. RC is aware of this, so his professed scumread is off. The whole thing about pushing for a quicklynch is also off as RC knows I use my vote to test theories before I get invested.

[Titus]

Tbone

Which of my reads do you think are right and wrong and why?

[T-Bone]

Well the only one you've even begun to expand upon is your read on me, and you cited 'passive voting' and 'OMGUS'...and also you repeatedly act as if I am pushing a wagon on you in retaliation, when I have been pushing a wagon on your slot since near the beginning on the game. It's hard for me to take you seriously when two of those things that you have said are not true in the context of the game.

I'm not looking for your reads to agree with me or not. I don't even care if you scumread me or not. I'm looking for your reasons behind them. So far, you haven't expanded on much. And it's not that I expect you to suddeny have a great handle on this game, since you just replaced in. But I was expecting something, anything, to show me that you are looking for scum. If you want to expand on any of your lean scums, that would be a good start. I don't need quotes or anything just a "I think this person could be scum for these reasons". And don't use buzzwords like OMGUS for example. That's the quickest way to draw on my fakedar.

Maybe you've explained things to yourself, maybe you've explained things to your team...but you haven't explained things to us.

[Bulbazak]

We're not. I am townreading Dunker for his vote on TBone because the wagon on Transcend seems to be retalitory for Transcend catching Tbone. The LLD wagon appears to have formed for removing her vote on us. I don't see how Radja enters that equation.

Okay. I'm reading them in a way that is similar to how I read players like Aronis, which is mainly how they just approach the game. I don't think I can express it better than that, and I couldn't give concrete "This is why they're town" reasons if I wanted to. Genuineness would probably come out of my mouth, but beyond that, I'd just be forcing points. So gut, but more than gut, if that makes sense?

[Titus]

We're not. I am townreading Dunker for his vote on TBone because the wagon on Transcend seems to be retalitory for Transcend catching Tbone. The LLD wagon appears to have formed for removing her vote on us. I don't see how Radja enters that equation.

Okay. I'm reading them in a way that is similar to how I read players like Aronis, which is mainly how they just approach the game. I don't think I can express it better than that, and I couldn't give concrete "This is why they're town" reasons if I wanted to. Genuineness would probably come out of my mouth, but beyond that, I'd just be forcing points. So gut, but more than gut, if that makes sense?

Ok. I'll just roll with that for now since Radja is not an SR of mine. I will look to sort him if we are both on.

@TBone, Parenthenticals provide the explanation beyond my VCA. You still are dodging my question though. Which read conclusions of mine do you think are right? Which do you think are wrong and why?

[Titus]

I have also spent great lengths on why Keychain/RC is in my lean scum category relative to my post count. As for CDB and Bins, that's my gut feel based on the vote history so far.

[Bulbazak]

I have also spent great lengths on why Keychain/RC is in my lean scum category relative to my post count.

Can you repost that, or at least tldr it?

[Aeronaut]

Okay, I got more information on the Titus scumread. Paraphrased:
He can't really explain it but it's something about the way she talks, and Bins or most other players should be able to confirm he's pretty good at reading Titus consistently (bar Anime uPick where he says he was stalling for more time to read her). He was/is pretty concerned that Titus will try to organise a quicklynch, since this has happened before where she's been scum with town RC.

Spoiler: (VC spoilered by Keychain)

Votecount 1.08

T-Bone (2)

Bins , Titus ,

Titus (3)

Bulbazak , T-Bone , UC Voyager ,

havingfitz (4)

Smocaine , Keychain , Elena Fisher , ChannelDelibird ,

Bins (1)

Almost50 ,

Mathdino (1)

Dunkerdoodles ,

Elena Fisher (1)

Mathdino ,

Almost50 (1)

Radja ,

Not Voting (2)

Aeronaut , havingfitz ,

Day one deadline is Sunday February 4, 9 PM PST. (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch!

[/size]

Zero desire to vote fitz with this low of a wagon participation rate. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the votes on us two were town pissed at the arguments.

@Bulba, My team says they are sorry.

@Bins, Hey, you know that thing where players over explain survival votes as scum? Check. That's what you just did. Now tell me, what's your TBone read? Or is that read just a car crash waiting to happen?

These are the two posts that make him strongly believe Titus is scum. From how urgent he was, I think Titus is his top scumread right now.

Hey, can you do me a favor and ask RC if Titus' entrance here seems similar to her posting in the beginning of Rogue One (RC co-modded, not played). Curious what his thoughts are on that, because that's that scumtitus sounds like this Titus to me tonally.

Hi! Can you give a reason or two for that one? Or other thoughts on the game or other wagons maybe?

Mostly I wanted to see what the reaction was, but I also was getting some deja vu vibes from her awkward pushes in the game I mentioned above, and also Pariah mafia where she played a really good scum game with a few noticeable things.

[Aeronaut]

This also might be stupid, but at first I was going to townread her since she said she was going to wait until a flip happened and just read everything in context then (since that was my plan as well and it makes sense in my mind), but then she went immediately against that and started trying to have an entrance / foothold in the game. If there's day-talk, then this just feels like Titus could have come in with a plan of what to do, and then that plan shifted once she started getting the lowdown from her team.

That could be a crackpot theory though. I've been into those lately.

[Bulbazak]

@Aero: Did you actually read any of the Team Mafia rules?

[Titus]

Okay, I got more information on the Titus scumread. Paraphrased:
He can't really explain it but it's something about the way she talks, and Bins or most other players should be able to confirm he's pretty good at reading Titus consistently (bar Anime uPick where he says he was stalling for more time to read her). He was/is pretty concerned that Titus will try to organise a quicklynch, since this has happened before where she's been scum with town RC.

Spoiler: (VC spoilered by Keychain)

Votecount 1.08

T-Bone (2)

Bins , Titus ,

Titus (3)

Bulbazak , T-Bone , UC Voyager ,

havingfitz (4)

Smocaine , Keychain , Elena Fisher , ChannelDelibird ,

Bins (1)

Almost50 ,

Mathdino (1)

Dunkerdoodles ,

Elena Fisher (1)

Mathdino ,

Almost50 (1)

Radja ,

Not Voting (2)

Aeronaut , havingfitz ,

Day one deadline is Sunday February 4, 9 PM PST. (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch!

[/size]

Zero desire to vote fitz with this low of a wagon participation rate. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the votes on us two were town pissed at the arguments.

@Bulba, My team says they are sorry.

@Bins, Hey, you know that thing where players over explain survival votes as scum? Check. That's what you just did. Now tell me, what's your TBone read? Or is that read just a car crash waiting to happen?

These are the two posts that make him strongly believe Titus is scum. From how urgent he was, I think Titus is his top scumread right now.

This I have trouble believing comes from town RC. RC knows that I have been polishing my VCA based on play at MU. One of the things I have found there is the more players that are on major wagons, the more likely you have scum wagoned.

Second, asking Bins to talk about their TBone read in a snarky tone (because I think they are partners) is in no way pushing for a quick lynch of players at all.

Here's one such post that explains how I feel on Keychain.

[Titus]

This also might be stupid, but at first I was going to townread her since she said she was going to wait until a flip happened and just read everything in context then (since that was my plan as well and it makes sense in my mind), but then she went immediately against that and started trying to have an entrance / foothold in the game. If there's day-talk, then this just feels like Titus could have come in with a plan of what to do, and then that plan shifted once she started getting the lowdown from her team.

That could be a crackpot theory though. I've been into those lately.

I don't believe I intended to wait for a flip. Rather, I was just not going to read what came before mostly barring needing context for my vca.

[Bulbazak]

Doesn't RC normally scumread you, though?

[Aeronaut]

@Aero: Did you actually read any of the Team Mafia rules?

Yeah, all of them. There an issue?

[Aeronaut]

This also might be stupid, but at first I was going to townread her since she said she was going to wait until a flip happened and just read everything in context then (since that was my plan as well and it makes sense in my mind), but then she went immediately against that and started trying to have an entrance / foothold in the game. If there's day-talk, then this just feels like Titus could have come in with a plan of what to do, and then that plan shifted once she started getting the lowdown from her team.

That could be a crackpot theory though. I've been into those lately.

I don't believe I intended to wait for a flip. Rather, I was just not going to read what came before mostly barring needing context for my vca.

Well I figure waiting for nightphase is waiting for a flip, right?