Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Llamarble]

Mm, I suppose fleshing out whole scum teams would be a good next step, given where we are in the day, looking for associatives and stuff.
Like, with redflip from Screen, who is full scumteam? With greenflip, who is full scumteam? Etc.
But I'm going to bed now.

If you can tell me compelling buddies for Eddie btw, Postie, that'll help you convince me as well.

[Ranmaru]

If scum:

[Screenplay, Davsto, Marquis]

If town:

[Davsto, Marquis, ActionDan]

Mostly on the basis that scum are trying to avoid the spotlight. Dan has a few nice posts, but he has only voted Postie and then Gamma, then no one, but also has a ton of town reads, which are easy to give out as scum. Marquis was posting in early game, and then makes an excuse for not being to get into the game, people give him the opportunity to, but he doesn't really, get into the game. (Especially after being wagoned) If I were scum and know how important early game is for positioning, I'd be around for it. Marquis feels like he did that, and now is lurking since he was wagoned, to avoid a lynch rather then help town find scum. Davsto seems scum to me in either scenario. Just stalling, and RC's point also supports this. Now I'm less confident about ActionDan because I remember in our last hydra game, that he didn't have as much time to post and let me handle the game. WGEURTZ did seem flat like LQ said, and just seemed as null as possible. He also just lurked out just like Tchill did. So now, my reads have changed. CES I can see town if Marquis is scum, and is probably wrong on the other scum.

Ranmaru
Llamarble
TSQ
Lycan
Postie
Dunnstral
NSG
Gamma
CES

Eddie
LQ

AD
Marquis
Davsto
Screenplay

[Screenplay > Davsto > Marquis > AD]

[Ranmaru]

Rather, I think CES might be town if his scum read on Marquis is correct, and his other scumreads are wrong, since I expect scum to try to avoid the spotlight so town can eat itself. So even though I don't like his last two votes, at least he is sticking his neck out for town, unlike Marquis.

[Ranmaru]

A weak connection, Tchill explains he doesn't get why Llama is making associations to Marquiz in his #161. His #163 shows he wasn't reading thoroughly, and might have been pseudo defending a buddy.

Tchill states in his #416 that he is still scum reading Postie or WGEURTZ, yet he never mentioned a scumread of WGEURTZ before. He responded to a post of WGEURTZ, but it doesn't match progression wise. His
#568 is the strongest connection to WGEURTZ, because it's a weird vote when you consider that it doesn't have pro-town motivation [He doesn't wait for the replacement to get a read on him, and he doesn't have a progression on WGEURTZ]. This is different how I and others are treating Screenplay, who's predecessor has given enough content for us to read, and we are reading it as scum. With WGEURTZ, he was null at best at the time, and he didn't have a reason to vote him in his progression. He most likely decided to push WGEURTZ early on, but forgot to and slipped up by saying 'still scumreading wgeurtz' when in fact it was the first time mentioning a scum read on him.

[Postie]

INCOMING

[Postie]

PART 1 - TBD MAFIA 2



<-- click to read ISO!

AKA Eddie's scumgame

The first 8 posts of Eddie's ISO are fluffposts, mainly banter with other players and one set-up speccy joke(?) post:

Spoiler:

While I didn't make the question about vigs, I would find it funny for practically everyone to have a "vig shot" and with it, you could shoot your role elsewhere and be like I'M VT!! Now, I don't see the mod

actively

doing this, but playing a game where you can pass roles to different players would be pretty... Interesting and chaotic.

When he finally asks a serious question, in his 9th post, it concerns another players' role:

Spoiler:

oh wow I can post in the gamethread after I did that

btw I'm voteless now

Wait, what did you do exactly, Ali?

He has nothing to say about said player's answer.

4 posts later, we get our first few questions that could be used to sort people, intersperesed with more superficial fluffy ones that can't:

Spoiler:

@Lycan, cam you provide an answer to why you posted that.... Rather odd rant?

Im already preparing you for tomorrow, when ill have a similair posting restriction to what snarky has right now.

But your point is taken

Wait, you're going to have a post restriction as well?

Does anyone else have a post restriction at this point? I know we have Snarky and Dreamerz confirmed, so that's 2 at least.

Bulb, why the PL on Mulch?

Mulch, Why is Screen scum?

Y'all need to back up off my Shakespearean rhyming entertainment, damn it!

DAMN IT, I HAVE A FEELING I KNOW WHO TOBY IS!!

Aronis... is that you?

Of the useful questions he asks:

• The question towards Bulb is never followed up on - he
  does not ask any further questions
  , and
  does not make any conclusions
  .
  
• The question towards Mulch isn't followed up in that he does not ask Mulch any further questions, but you could perhaps (though IMO it's a bit of a stretch) argue that there's some follow-up in Eddie asking Mario a question about Mulch - however the focus is once again on
  set-up spec
  , the question being about Mulch's role. He
  does not make any conclusions
  .

Wrt his question to Lycan, since Eddie does have some interactions both with and about Lycan and eventually votes him we're going to look at how that develops in a bit more detail:

Spoiler:

Lycaaaaaaaan, still waiting on an explanation to my question

i'm more macho than alisae is and i wanted everyone to know it

He reiterates the question towards Lycan and after Lycan gives a non-answer, he stops engaging with Lycan.

After more fluffy speculation and another dose of

set-up spec

, Eddie asks Bulb a question about his read on Lycan, and then finally places a vote:

Spoiler:

Bulb, mind giving me some more info on why Lycan?

Not at this time. Trust me on this one. I know what I'm doing.

Just want to say up front as well, thank you to people for not spamming the shit out of the thread for the last 2 days and making it to where when I come back to the thread, the catch up is manageable and not, "jesus tap dancing christ, why!!!!!". I've been busy af. So, y'all are much appreciated. Also, Bulb, I'll trust you.

Vote Lycanfire

You'll notice that Eddie

does not reach his own conclusion

on Lycan, instead sheeping Bulb despite Bulb having given no reasoning.
He also

does not engage with Lycan

for the rest of the day; he repeatedly says he's voting Lycan because he "trusts" Bulb, keeping his vote parked there while not attempting to sort Lycan himself (when he unvotes later, he fails to vote another player that day).

I think that's a good enough place to leave off for TBD. It should give you enough of a snapshot of his scumgame that I can point out how it differs from town!Eddie.

[Postie]

PART 2 - NIGHT AND DAY MAFIA

AKA Eddie's towngame

3 posts

into his ISO Eddie starts asking questions:

Spoiler: (emphasis mine)

@Eddie, why shouldn't we lynch you for saying the word traitor?

Why is the word traitor a bad thing to you?

Town has no logical reason to consider one and sparking said conversation can easily be a crumb.

So again, why shouldn't we lynch you for it?

Ahhhh. I gotcha now. See, I know the individuals in the light side, and I'm attempting to pick up a read on them 1 by 1 in our PT as well as their actions in thread. By the word "traitor", my meaning goes to that person being scum. I'm sure there's a "traitor" in the light side as well, I just don't know whom yet. But I will take a read/peek into what I can to sniff out scum. I will not falter in rooting out traitors to this game!

Ved, Aronis and Rauth are scum to you, yes?

Bulb, Dark PT update/status. What's up on that end?

Oh @Bulb, if I didn't come in and at least make a dramatic post voting for you as my opening vote, it wouldn't be a mafia game with us separated ! I still got my eye on you, obviously. However, I know we have bigger fish to fry all together. Thoughts on

Titus

and Ved?

Vote 79 CE

Let's see how this turns out. I've had a gut scum read of 79 CE for a bit, but I needed to sort out a couple other reads.

Titus

and Ved have hit my scum list. Gin is null-town. Bulb I feel is gonna dagger me in the back by being scum (cause he's cheeky like that ), even if I'm currently reading him town (even with my dramatic opening vote post). Dramonic is town. Zeus is town. Gin is town. Gamma Emerald is town. The rest who aren't here sit at null.

These are posts 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 of his ISO. You can see that

within the space of 5 posts

he has

engaged

with Titus,

asked

others for their thoughts on Titus, and then

reached a conclusion

on Titus.
There's a very logical flow to what he's doing that you can follow. You can see that he's taking steps to sort her, and he's focused on the task.
From that last post you will notice he's also very forthcoming in giving

reads

.

Since you can see that he's sorting Vedith in some of those posts; let's see how that develops next:

Spoiler: (emphasis mine; some quotes trimmed for length)

Oh @Bulb, if I didn't come in and at least make a dramatic post voting for you as my opening vote, it wouldn't be a mafia game with us separated ! I still got my eye on you, obviously. However, I know we have bigger fish to fry all together. Thoughts on Titus and

Ved

?

Vote 79 CE

Let's see how this turns out. I've had a gut scum read of 79 CE for a bit, but I needed to sort out a couple other reads. Titus and

Ved

have hit my scum list. Gin is null-town. Bulb I feel is gonna dagger me in the back by being scum (cause he's cheeky like that ), even if I'm currently reading him town (even with my dramatic opening vote post). Dramonic is town. Zeus is town. Gin is town. Gamma Emerald is town. The rest who aren't here sit at null.

I was lying. But nice one on scum claiming putting someone to L1 when I said I would Lol hammer them, EddieFenix.

I knew you were bluffing. Is this seriously the best case you're going to put up? This "GOTCHA" post?? It would be hilarious if it weren't pathetic.

Your bluffing on this dayvig shot. Seen this gambit a few times on this site.

I've seen an image of a donkey sitting at a coputer desk playing Counter Strike on this site.
We can try to see who's got the crazy scenes all we like, but you're flipping... And flipping scum!

Confidence in this ploy will get you nowhere but the gallows or you just get labeled and ignored for the rest of the game for wasting a day vig shot and ending the day prematurely.

If you're doing this to cause chaos and shake the voting tree

, it's not a wise or smart plan at all. You've put yourself in a lose-lose/FUBAR situation.

@Dramonic, what exactly has drawn you to voting Vedith?

My case is that you've been irrelevant and unnoticed and you haven't been adding much to the game. You've just been kinda there. So because of that you are probably scum.

Tone here is bad, it sounds like you're trying to sound towny and full of yourself but it doesn't seem believable.

So a completely flimsy case hinged on being unnoticed, adding much, just being there sparingly, tone being bad and being full of myself because I'm calling out the fact that you're calling me scum. Alright....

Did you miss the fake dayvig shot thrown in my direction from Vedith?

Because in all honesty had that actively went off, he'd have been asshole deep in a world of pressure because of not only wasting his shot on day 1, but on town day 1. Wouldn't have gotten much information from my death because of your previous points of being unnoticed or adding much, would have it? Why shoot me to begin with for being able to notice you were lying about claiming to hammer at L-1, after also stating earlier that you'd shoot Gin with a shot IF you had it? From that fake day vig shot at post 558, you can see a change/shift in the active game. A scum read of Rauth is now starting to come across as town for some people.

Now, going back over that

I still consider Vedith my #1 scum read

,

but I could easily talk myself into seeing Ved as town/dumb town

on the other hand. He's confident that his shot will work, it'll flip me scum, and he sticks to his guns even after finding out it's not going to work as he intended. But, the complications with trying to justify that come with too many questions. Why make that fake day vig ploy in the first place? What does it accomplish? How does this affect the game going forward?

Does my alignment flipping town change YOUR (the rest of the town's) perspective on Veds play?

Again, easy to follow progression when you break it down. He

asks

someone else for their read, then

reaches a conclusion

. Afterwards, he

engages

his scumread, and

engages others

others on his scumread. You can see he feels a need to develop his read this way because he

has doubts

- highlighted in

italics

.

I'll stop there because otherwise I'd just be going over the same sort of things again and again; he goes on to follow this process throughout his whole ISO. From what I've given you, you should be able to pick out these sort of steps yourself if you look for them. And I recommend you do, particularly noting how frequently he engages like this, to have your own complete picture of his play and be better tuned to seeing the differences here.

[Postie]

PART 3 - TEAM MAFIA 2018: WHITE FLAG

AKA This game

To summarise, Eddie's scumgame can be charcterised by:

• frequent fluffposts
  
  
• heavy focus on
  set-up spec
  
  
• failure to
  follow-up
  on questions with meaningful
  further engagement
  or
  conclusions
  
  
• being
  slow to give reads
  
  
• having only
  a very small number of reads

His towngame, on the other hand, is characterised by:

• infrequent fluffposts
  
  
• heavy engagement
  with other players, and
  making frequent conclusions
  whilst engaging
  
• being
  quick to give reads
  and giving them
  frequently
  
  
• having
  a large amount of reads

I feel like I'm just kinda pointing out what I pointed out before here, so

please

read the above posts and compare the differences for yourself, and then look at his play here.

In terms of thinking about how Eddie differs here from his scumgame, I do think he has a larger amount of reads than I initally gave him credit for, but I still have a problem with how they don't seem to follow on from anything he's doing in the thread the way they so clearly do in his towngame.
There's also obviously a lack of set-up spec since this is an open set-up with no PRs, but I feel his ISO is padded out with theory to much the same extent as he focuses on set-up spec as scum.

Something else that reminds me of his scumgame in addition to the above is the way he voteparked Gamma with no explanation, and then later unvoted and sat on his hands. It's a lot like his vote and then subsequent unvote of Lycan in TBD2. In his towngame he was

always

pursuing someone (and pretty quickly, several people).

Add to that the fact that I don't think Eddie has shown any signs that he'll be improving his engagement in the game, and I think this is 100% the best lynch for today.

VOTE: EddieFenix

For emphasis.

[Postie]

Oh and Srceenplay is hardtown to RC something something don't make Whemestar an orphan.
I'm absolutely not voting there today.

[Ranmaru]

Oh and Srceenplay is hardtown to RC something something don't make Whemestar an orphan.

Tell him I'll need a bit more than that to justify his hard town read on Screenplay. I'll read this later today.

[Ranmaru]

Postie, have you ever given a read on T-chill when he was still in the game? Just curious.

[Srceenplay]

If scum:

[Screenplay,

Davsto, Marquis

If town:

Davsto, Marquis,

ActionDan]

From your poe why I’m a higher lynch than these two?




I’m also continuing with my read. I don’t see it happening completely without bias but we will see where it goes.

[Postie]

Postie, have you ever given a read on T-chill when he was still in the game? Just curious.

Nah; I just called his wagon "uninspired". I didn't see any readable content from him.

[Gamma Emerald]

Postie, have you ever given a read on T-chill when he was still in the game? Just curious.

Nah; I just called his wagon "uninspired". I didn't see any readable content from him.

Why not? As I see it you don't seem to have tried

[Davsto]

Yo postie your post is great and all but one town and one scum game does not a meta make. Could I ask for (less thorough of course) examples from more town and scum games just to be sure this isn't just lucky and coincidental examples?

Also re: Ranmaru's read on me, I think it's bad. It's practically ignoring the actual content of my posts. And I'm doing daily wallposts catching up the game while still engaging with comments directed at me in the present time, so I don't agree with any idea of me attempting to be under the radar.

[EddieFenix]

You shouldn’t have to tell someone why you are obv town. It just is by your actions.

Ok, but at some point you gotta admit that I would have to be some kind of mechanized badass to produce my ISO this game as scum. Like my Eddie prog, where every case I can make about him points to playing to scum wincon but I still think a townie probably made his ISO but I am also unsure and back and forth sometimes.

Eddie being so tuned into all the reads on him is just funny, like I didn't know it was possible to play exclusively to scum wincon so hard and not be obvscum.

Am I LQ's top scumread now? Because that is pretty funny too. I've been mercurial, sure, but I also think me OBSESSIVELY rechecking my reads, literally waking up at night paranoid about someone who has zero chance of getting lynched today, trying to subdue any threat to a town win, even several game days out, makes me obvtown on a special level.

So, me being tuned into all my reads is funny to you when in your own words I'm "playing exclusively to scum wincon so hard and not be obvscum"? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that being fine tuned into how I'm being read when you also stated that I was "being widely read as scum" is such a bad thing to point out to not only just you, but to others. Especially when literally, a few pages back, you see townie coming from me, NOW we're back to this?! Hang on, gonna set the logic stick down for this one....



You also going, "we go with this this this aaaaaand this lynch and we'll TOTALLY win the game guys, COMPLETELY makes me obvtown on such a high pedestal and I am literally paranoid about my reads, that I am losing sleep re-checking them over and over and over and over again just to make sure they are right."



Do you see the problem here, Marble?

I agree that Eddie is obvscum, I just suspect he has a town role PM.

Then listen to that suspicion.

Part 1 of Postie's case can be Tl;dr'd to this:
I'm sheeping Bulb to make sure Bulb see's me as town and when he dies, IF I would have kept up with that game and not gotten shot off my perch by Chesskid, which I made the case for wanting him dead in the scum PT for a reason (MARBLE), then I can coast thru the game on his read and try to get his scum reads lynched.
However, at the time of TBD mafia, I had also had a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE life change be PLOPPED into my lap because I had a baby from my family be placed into my home. So, as far as my priorities went, the game went to the BOTTOM of the list of "things Eddie needs to prioritize". Otherwise, I think things would have turned out differently.
tl;dr of the tl;dr: Being an adult sucks, but we all gotta grow up and sober up (maturity wise), eventually. This was that time for me.

Part 2 of Postie's case can be Tl;dr'd to this:
Night and Day mafia was one of my first games back on this site where I rolled town. I could be relaxed, engage, and do my thing without a baby being a distraction in the background. Or so I bloody thought. The person who I

thought

could differentiate my gameplay (again, Bulb) SPEARHEADED my lynch and then proceeded to keep having the town mislynch from then on bar 1 day where he caught scum, and then he got trapped in the light thread with scum. Immediately regretting the entire game because he should have known better about me and my play as a player and in my death throws in THAT game, I practically NAILED the scum team to the T.

Part 3 of Postie's Case can be tl;dr'd to this:
Scum game, correct.
Town game, correct.

However

: both examples of the games listed have different circumstances surrounding my effective play and engagement ability within those games.

Yo postie your post is great and all but one town and one scum game does not a meta make. Could I ask for (less thorough of course) examples from more town and scum games just to be sure this isn't just lucky and coincidental examples?

This Postie.

[Ranmaru]

@

Davesto

: Fair enough Davsto, your pushing back your catch up seemed like stalling to me, but I admit it's a weak point. I will retract it.
@

Screenplay

: You go before Davsto because of your actions, nothing more. I'm not on you due to POE.

[Ranmaru]

Postie, can I get a full reads list? Also interested in you answering Gamma's question.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.30

Srceenplay(6)

~ Thestatusquo, northsidegal, Dunnstral, Lycanfire, Llamarble, Ranmaru

LicketyQuickety(3)

~ Srceenplay, Gamma Emerald, Davsto

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Cogito Ergo Sum

EddieFenix(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (4): Marquis, EddieFenix, ActionDan, LicketyQuickety

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-05 21:00:00)

[ActionDan]

I reread LQ's iso. Admittedly skimmed some of the posts but I'm getting 0 scum vibes. i.e, exactly the same feelings I got before.

Postie's Eddie analysis is strikes me as a town post and is mostly correct, but I don't agree that EF's ISO this game matches his scum game. If I had to pick out a similarity it's that sometimes questions don't lead anywhere — but that's rather normal for everyone regardless.

Ranmaru, in the absence of clear scum reads, I'm sorting people into "town" and "those remaining", which is not out of line where others (yourself included) are approaching this game as well. Kagami is calling this game a town-hunt and I can't help but agree (she also suggests the scum team is competent but I don't agree that has to be the case).

So far my town column is:

TSQ, lycan, Postie, EF, LQ, Llmarble, Ranmaru , Davsto, NSG.

I'm going to read Marquis/CES/screenplay

[Ranmaru]

Thank you Action Dan. I still believe Screenplay is the best play today.

[Llamarble]

I like your list Ran; I would write something similar if giving an updated one (CES a bit lower since I don't think sticking nsck out as scum is difficult for him, at least to the extent done here).

Dan's 1144 is a good post, but in this town hunt I still say he is certainly less town than most still. But giving both Eddie and LQ townreads when as scum they need to be mislynched favors him. While possible, it doesn't especially strike me as him protecting eddiebuddy or lqbuddy either.

Eddie, why don't you seem to have much interest (aside from not you) in who eats rope today?

I don't get screen "hard town"

[Ranmaru]

Thanks Llamarble. I think we need to take a closer look at Marquis.

[Thestatusquo]

I like your list Ran; I would write something similar if giving an updated one (CES a bit lower since I don't think sticking nsck out as scum is difficult for him, at least to the extent done here).

Dan's 1144 is a good post, but in this town hunt I still say he is certainly less town than most still. But giving both Eddie and LQ townreads when as scum they need to be mislynched favors him. While possible, it doesn't especially strike me as him protecting eddiebuddy or lqbuddy either.

Eddie, why don't you seem to have much interest (aside from not you) in who eats rope today?

I don't get screen "hard town"

The problem with this, and with reading Dan in general I've found, is just that he is a very low impact player. He doesn't push, he doesn't make loud noises and he doesn't try to rally people to his side. So he gets away with stuff like this as scum. Not saying he is here, and I'm town reading. But I'm always wary of quiet players like this who only post dispassionate analysis. I've lost to them as scum too many times.

[Llamarble]

Agree. Dan (and CES, but differently) will rarely be in town piles for me. Good players with Town games too similar to their scum games. So they usually live in the "is town going in wrong direction? Then these guys are likely responsible" pile. Hoopla is like that too. Lynch real scumreads first but give these players priority as lylo nears. If they haven't helped town win the game by then they have to go.