Micro 778: Be Yourself Mafia - Game Over

[Postie]

I only had one heal sorry. =[

[Mathdino]

@CT: Unless you think NSG is specifically scared of you, I'm more concerned with NSG's openings than her midgame slumps.

Firebringer read is a fair one but I want more opinions on that before I'm willing to follow. Never not willing to lynch Mulch lol

Mathdino, it was clearly Fire and RC and Fire already replaced out already, and there hasn't been any unreadable content since then. Also, RC has already been healed. Don't like that post from you.

That wasn't clear to me, Mulch/RC are generally unreadable to me the more they try to control people, and I was under the impression that Postie could change her target. Don't like your nitpicking, and also don't know what scum motivation you think you saw in that post.

and lol postie instantly using heal on RC ffs

[RadiantTroubadour]

RC head doesn't really feel like engaging with much right now but I'll try to answer a few things.

1) With the role PM I had and my grasp of setup spec it was implied to me that the heal would end up being one shot without being explicitly stated.
If you're implying TMI, you mean that I had access to that information which means you're implying what exactly, that Postie is my scumpartner?

Anyway the mulch read is like a residual feel from the hydra, I think Fire can obv town which he hadn't in so many posts and then he replaced out weirdly. I don't like that it felt like they were just throwing out votes to see what stuck, like looking for wagons instead of scumhunting, and the ego battle with RT was just bad so there's at least one scum in there imo because it benefits scum for the thread to be spammed as town get pissed off and lose motivation. I felt like Kat was the one trying to calm it down so mulch > RT rn.

Mafia's not that simple and you know it especially when people like Mulch are involved. I don't happen to like his slot at all and I would be happy to lynch it but to say that there has to be scum between us is disingenuous.

I would much rather let RC die and sheep his reads than continue to have to deal with Mulch and RC filling up more pages with unreadable content. Support Nico save.

If you don't actually want to play games with me then I would recommend that you not join games that I was in before you because that's the vibe that this post gives.

Dino has a point, but why would scumNSG be like "possible SvS" wouldn't scumNSG just avoid putting herself out there like that? NSG what do you make of the scumreads on you?

I mean I really don't want this to come down to me waving my dick telling everyone to lynch NSG but I really think that what she's done this game is scum indicative.
I do think I may have overstated my competency reading her to some extent but I still feel like if I think she's scum and everyone else thinks she's town I'm probably the right one.

That wasn't clear to me, Mulch/RC are generally unreadable to me the more they try to control people, and I was under the impression that Postie could change her target. Don't like your nitpicking, and also don't know what scum motivation you think you saw in that post.

and lol postie instantly using heal on RC ffs

No really the implication here is that us dying is pro-town in your opinion, when we have a shared scumread and you've given no reasons to think that I'm scum.
That feels like you really just don't want to deal with me in games and if that's your stance I'd prefer that you don't put yourself in situations where you have to.

[RadiantTroubadour]

I'm wary of RC because that ego spam earlier on looks too familiar. Both heads of that hydra started off way too aggressive and now Kat is looking better so it's like good cop/bad cop play. While I did agree with the fire hydra's read dissonance being scummy, it was hypocritical to neg them for it because I see two different perspectives on NSG coming from that slot. Hypocrisy in itself probably NAI and I'm going to stop pretending I know how to read them...

If you want to vote me then vote me. If I'm going to have to play self defense all game my reads and play will suffer.

[Mathdino]

If you don't actually want to play games with me then I would recommend that you not join games that I was in before you because that's the vibe that this post gives.

Just want to get this out of the way as this is more of a personal thing

I don't have a personal problem with either of the players in your slot. I take a similar stance on 2015 LLD, or... idk not many powerscum players nowadays. It's a strategic play. If a slot is so much more likely to fuck town over on that 25% chance, but their reads are generally pretty good (even though I consider their playstyle anti-town), that slot's auto-death on N1 is not a bad thing. I don't subscribe to the "don't listen to dead players" strategy.

Naturally, the players who get most pissed off at me for this are RC and LLD

[CheekyTeeky]

1) With the role PM I had and my grasp of setup spec it was implied to me that the heal would end up being one shot without being explicitly stated.
If you're implying TMI, you mean that I had access to that information which means you're implying what exactly, that Postie is my scumpartner?

Yes exactly that's why I said early on I felt like you guys shared an alignment. I don't know if you're all scum yet, but I could totally see where NSG was coming from.

I guess I can buy your setup spec lead to that conclusion? I suck at set up spec so no idea how you worked that out.

At the end of your push on Postie it looked like RC TR her. Is that how you see it?

[CheekyTeeky]

Mafia's not that simple and you know it especially when people like Mulch are involved. I don't happen to like his slot at all and I would be happy to lynch it but to say that there has to be scum between us is disingenuous.

PFFFFFT! This is disingenuous. I can't back this up without wandering into ongoing game discussion so please.

[RadiantTroubadour]

I don't think it's at all unreasonable that both of us get pissed off at it because we want to play the game too. I enjoy town a lot more than I enjoy scum right now.
I don't think it's fair to me that I have to jump through a billion hoops to get the chance to play as town because of my scumgame, especially when it's not even right, like the correct play is to just treat me as town.

So it may not be personal to you but my mafia experience that you're trying to destroy is very personal to me. And LLD, for that matter. I find a lot of common ground with how she feels about things. I don't think it's something unique to us that we end up resenting this kind of shit in games, I think that anyone who had to deal with it would feel the exact same way we do.

At the end of your push on Postie it looked like RC TR her. Is that how you see it?

This is RC and yes I think that she's town. I believe her progression from 'something feels wrong about this push on me but can't words atm' to explaining it and I generally townread how she's trying to lead the game. With the grain of salt that I actually think I am the worst person in this game at reading her, I would call her town.

PFFFFFT! This is disingenuous. I can't back this up without wandering into ongoing game discussion so please.

It's not disingenuous. Read the fight between me and Mathblade that I replaced out of in Inspectorscout's game that was even with this same hydra: we were both town.

[Mathdino]

@Mod:

1. Were roles determined before alignment or after?
2. Was alignment rolled randomly?
3. Are scum given fakeclaims?

Thinking about it, if RT's role justification was "lol RC always dies N1" that's a "RC dies N1 AS TOWN". Not as scum. The role isn't a justification for his scumgame. And looking at my PM, the flavour text a direct reference to my towngame.

I'm wondering if, had I rolled scum, N_M would've tried to reference Jester Nightless (where I was scum with him), or would've still given me a role relating to his view of my towngames.

Can anyone confirm that they have flavour text that is a reference to their scumgame?

This might be able to get the RT discussion out of the way.

[CheekyTeeky]

If you want to vote me then vote me. If I'm going to have to play self defense all game my reads and play will suffer.

Stop with this, it makes me dread trying to get a read on you when you act out. :/

Can you give some reads apart from NSG maybe mulch scum?

Pedit ok I'll have a look

[CheekyTeeky]

Mine doesn't really reference anything apart from me being all over the place/unable to make up my mind but then NM isn't as familiar with me as all of you.

[RadiantTroubadour]

Bluntly I think that I should be locktowned because if Yume had claimed first and been autohealed all of a sudden scum is completely fucked in this game.

Stop with this, it makes me dread trying to get a read on you when you act out. :/

Can you give some reads apart from NSG maybe mulch scum?

Pedit ok I'll have a look

It's kind of the point: I don't think that I can, with my aptitude at scum, 'convince' you that I am town without part of that 'convincing' being simply making you not want to push me.
Having people not want to push on me because it'll be hell is sometimes the best that I can do.

[CheekyTeeky]

Bluntly I think that I should be locktowned because if Yume had claimed first and been autohealed all of a sudden scum is completely fucked in this game.

Stop with this, it makes me dread trying to get a read on you when you act out. :/

Can you give some reads apart from NSG maybe mulch scum?

Pedit ok I'll have a look

It's kind of the point: I don't think that I can, with my aptitude at scum, 'convince' you that I am town without part of that 'convincing' being simply making you not want to push me.
Having people not want to push on me because it'll be hell is sometimes the best that I can do.

I don't understand the first part.

I want to town read your explanation because it doesn't contain "you're shit at reading me" lol

[RadiantTroubadour]

We die at the end of the day if we are not healed: if Yume had claimed first and asked to be healed and Postie had instahealed her and we were scum, all of a sudden scum is down a player on day 1.

I think that's an insane amount of swing. At least if Postie had only one target for the heal it becomes a question of whether I can convince her to use it, which would be acceptable as scum imo.

[Postie]

NicoRobin is Yume?

Also, it would make sense to have a scum role that benefits from being healed as well as a town role, right? Because like if that's the case then Nico is probscum.

[Mathdino]

Spoiler: non-game-related, @RC

I don't think it's at all unreasonable that both of us get pissed off at it because we want to play the game too. I enjoy town a lot more than I enjoy scum right now.
I don't think it's fair to me that I have to jump through a billion hoops to get the chance to play as town because of my scumgame, especially when it's not even right, like the correct play is to just treat me as town.

So it may not be personal to you but my mafia experience that you're trying to destroy is very personal to me. And LLD, for that matter. I find a lot of common ground with how she feels about things. I don't think it's something unique to us that we end up resenting this kind of shit in games, I think that anyone who had to deal with it would feel the exact same way we do.

In F2F mafia with my friend group, I'm by far the best mafia player there. I'm better at scum than town with that group. They're all introverts, and I basically strongarm and reaction test them all into whichever lynches I want. So of course, every single game, someone brings up the idea of "OKAY WHO'S UP FOR LYNCHING DINO" and the majority of the time it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I've been there. I usually just try to gamesolve on D1 and make sure they sheep me after I die.

And it sucks most of the time, and I've reacted like you and LLD do because it feels unfair (as a consequence of being good).

The problem is, on the flip side, for my friends, lynching me early is the correct play, because they can basically ONLY lynch me on D1 (by policy) or in LyLo (which I'm admittedly bad at). If I'm scum, not lynching me is catastrophic.

I know your rep well enough. I'm not gonna be able to cold read you and I'm not gonna be able to cold meta you (if an AI can't, I certainly can't). And you know you'd shit all over me for trying to read you based on one game together. If we play enough games together, I might get there, but in the meantime, there's very little utility in going out and saying HERE'S A MATHDINO CERTIFIED READ ON RAYBELLS. It just wouldn't be genuine.

Sidenote: The funny thing is I know you'd react the way you just have as both town and scum. It's exactly the kind of AtE you've cultivated in your towngame so you get to use it in your scumgame. That shit works. Feelsbadman (unironically).

Anyway point of all this is, I've been there too, I'm the RadiantCowbells/LLD of my not-great-at-mafia friend group (right down to the playstyle), but the strategy is still correct FMPOV, or from my friends' POVs. It's a major flaw with the elimination-based game of mafia. If you ever wanna play Resistance (elimination-less) I'm always down for that.

[CheekyTeeky]

We die at the end of the day if we are not healed: if Yume had claimed first and asked to be healed and Postie had instahealed her and we were scum, all of a sudden scum is down a player on day 1.

I think that's an insane amount of swing. At least if Postie had only one target for the heal it becomes a question of whether I can convince her to use it, which would be acceptable as scum imo.

Ohhh I think I get it!

[Postie]

Btw RC I do believe you about your role I think but your reasoning requires us to believe that this isn't a fakeclaim you came up with to trick me into using my role on you.

[CheekyTeeky]

NicoRobin is Yume?

Also, it would make sense to have a scum role that benefits from being healed as well as a town role, right? Because like if that's the case then Nico is probscum.

Agree with this.

[RadiantTroubadour]

I disagree: I think the swing of
[retaining town + nerfed scum pr] -> [lost town + boosted scum pr] would largely dictate the game
if nm designs games how I would design them we would both be town

[CheekyTeeky]

So if we assume you're right I get this:

RT, Post, Nico
SC
NSG, Dino
Mulch

UCV - not posted. Does he have some kind of restriction?

VOTE: UCV

[Not_Mafia]

@Mod:

1. Were roles determined before alignment or after?
2. Was alignment rolled randomly?
3. Are scum given fakeclaims?

1+2. Roles and alignments were determined by a combination of many random and non-random factors, yes, you're right, this is vague.
3. No

[RadiantTroubadour]

UCV is flaking as fuck right now, don't think it's AI at all

[RadiantTroubadour]

Giggles just reminded me that Alisae helped review which explains why I got such a bad role

[Mathdino]

fucking not_mafia might've gone The Mod Is Mafia on this shit goddamn

no fakeclaims is good though

i'd appreciate if everyone claimed some aspect of their flavour ASAP

specifically where N_M got this impression of you

mine is obviously NSG's winter wonderland