Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Cedrick]

i disagree it's a dumb push and clearly others agree he is probably scum since 4 people are voting him. For me to use meta properly, i'd need multiple scum games. I'd also need to read his town games. it's day one, it isn't that pressing. If I'm wrong i'll deal with that but I see no reason to move off a viable wagon especially when the only competing wagon is somebody I town read.

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: Lexa ISO

#0...not a fan of this post. And not sure where the “self-hammer” comment is coming from.
#1...fluff
#2...fluff
#3...advocates long days (while voting Havo and riding his wagon to L-2).
#4...Asks me for clarification. ok.
#5...Meh. places onus of Havo being lynched on competency of player pool. Dangerous. And avoids responsibility. Still voting Havo.
#6...This feels like Lexa trying to impose a town sentiment towards Cedrick for his “degree of effort.”
#7...Exchange with NQ on merits of meta and wrt to Cedrick.
#8...Doesn’t understand NSG vote on her so will ignore (why not ask why?). Instead wants NSG thoughts on me and GNR. “vote to content pattern?”
#9...Chummy with Cedrick. Compares his attitude towards Havo and being like Havo. Doesn’t see need to “turbo” Havo. This while still voting Havo.
#10...gives NSG her reads on GNR and me. Spews some bs about GNR. Questions my vote on her and says if I continue with “surface level“ analyses it might indicate that I am scum.
#11...tap dances a little in response to NSG’s “off-siter” query.
#12...Applauds Awoo’s NQ case and votes NQ…..meh.
#13...argues NQ’s “first sign of any momentum” comment wrt Lexa’s Havo vote. ok.
#14...accuses NQ’s “first sign of any momentum” comment as being a misrep. Not seeing it…”first sign” is an opinion.
#15...responds to NSG’s response on Lexa’s GNR and havingfitz observations. meh…
#16...Jokey ad-hom towards NQ.
#17...Debating “naked votes” with NSG. meh
#18...accuses NQ of another misrep for saying she suspected GNR. I think this response if bad given Lexa’s “concerns” about GNR’s tone and entrance. Lexa didn’t say I SUSPECT GNR! but there was definitely some passive shading going on. No misrep IMO though.
#19...Gets pretty snarky with NQ defending against NQ’s observation that Lexa suspects GNR. bad.
#20...home site and alt defense. meh
#21...Naked vote on Mumble. Ironic.
#22...Asks Mumble to clarify on “pressure.”
#23...Says people getting votes are scum hunting. Accuses Mumble of not scum hunting.
#24...Accuses Mumble and Alexcellent of voting without contributing.
#25...Weak, yet abrasive, defense towards Mumble wrt votecount proximity to Lexa comments.
#26...asks to disregard previous post and elaborates on her vote on Mumble. Which is ironic again given her vote on Mumble was similar to what she is saying she’s voting Mumble for.
#27...debate with Mumble. meh.
#28... debate with Mumble. meh. Says Alexcellent will get vote after Mumble is resolved.
#29...weak incredulousness towards Mumble.
#30...accusing Mumble of not reading her…not being rational.
#31...OMGUS theory with Mumble. meh
#32...defending towards Mumble.
#33...defending towards Mumble.
#34...defending towards Mumble.
#35...more defense towards Mumble…much of which has felt AtE.
#36...Asks Awoo for opinion on Mumble and omgus stuff. meh
#37...AtE ish
#38...AtE ish
#39...decides Mumble must be obtuse (ad hom) town. Votes Alexcellent for joining wagon on her.
#40...Moving prodge. ok.
#41...fluff
#42...Catch up post. Upon closer review…meh. And having ISO’d Mumble…not in agreement with comments towards him. Likes Cedrick tone (I feel like there is a connection with Cedrick). Gives overall reads minus NSG.
#43...meh
#44...questions my unvote for effort. ok
#45...Hi friend.
#46...Calls Eddie (NQ) town af. A change in her read from NQ iirc.
#47...Who ya scum reading Eddie? huh? huh? lol
#48...buddying Eddie.
#49...Joke towards Mumble. ok.
#50...reply to NSG wrt to Lexa #43...ok.
#51...meh.
#52...long post. meh
#53...meh

OK…I still don’t like Lexa. Nothing personal mind you.
I don’t care for the things I initially suspected her for. Additionally, I think she’s coming across as overly defensive and unnecessarily emotional. While the wall post catchup was enough to give me pause for consideration…after further consideration I don’t feel any differently. And in light of tr’ing Mumble the Mumble Lexa content doesn’t favor Lexa. I didn’t agree with her misrep accusations towards NQ. It feels like she has a connection towards Cedrick. I need to look that slot over.

Pause rescinded.

VOTE: Lexa

[Cedrick]

I think she’s coming across as overly defensive and unnecessarily emotional

neither of these are alignment indicative though. In fact those are more often town traits not scum traits. If she flips town, you move into the scum pool. Your progression doesn't seem genuine to me.

[Beefster]

Official Vote Count 1-8

Lexa

(5): Alexcellent, Eddie Cane, havingfitz, Mumble, northsidegal

(L-2)

Mumble

(4): Cedrick, Guy_Named_Riggs, Lexa, rb

Cedrick

(2): Havo, Papa Zito

Eddie Cane

(1): Awoo

Not Voting

(1): Luca Blight

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-02-23 09:00:00)

[Havo]

I think she’s coming across as overly defensive and unnecessarily emotional

neither of these are alignment indicative though. In fact those are more often town traits not scum traits. If she flips town, you move into the scum pool. Your progression doesn't seem genuine to me.

Yeah see I agree with this too much

Lexa is not scummy too me.

Cedrick just laid down 2 extremely town posts.

Mumbles is the only one scummy to me but that’s usually how I read him.

VOTE: mumbles

[Papa Zito]

This is gonna be one of those games.

[Cedrick]

man papa, i really hope you are scum.

[Eddie Cane]

I think she’s coming across as overly defensive and unnecessarily emotional

neither of these are alignment indicative though. In fact those are more often town traits not scum traits. If she flips town, you move into the scum pool. Your progression doesn't seem genuine to me.

Yeah see I agree with this too much

Lexa is not scummy too me.

Cedrick just laid down 2 extremely town posts.

Mumbles is the only one scummy to me but that’s usually how I read him.

VOTE: mumbles

do you not agree his play here is vastly different from his scum game?

[Eddie Cane]

I think she’s coming across as overly defensive and unnecessarily emotional

neither of these are alignment indicative though. In fact those are more often town traits not scum traits. If she flips town, you move into the scum pool. Your progression doesn't seem genuine to me.

this post is true. but, I don't get how town lexa makes fitz scum past the minimal voted for scum level, they have a lot of partner equity.

[Eddie Cane]

i disagree it's a dumb push and clearly others agree he is probably scum since 4 people are voting him. For me to use meta properly, i'd need multiple scum games. I'd also need to read his town games. it's day one, it isn't that pressing. If I'm wrong i'll deal with that but I see no reason to move off a viable wagon especially when the only competing wagon is somebody I town read.

3 other people, 1 of which hasn't posted at all and two of which I have outgoing prods to. that's not a great wagon. lexa is an awesome wagon, and nothing stops you from starting a new one at this stage either...

havo what's town about this post?

[Cedrick]

I mean I guess they can be scum together, but I still town read lex and fitz's actions look more like scum trying to push a mislynch instead of trying to distance/bus

[Cedrick]

lexa is an awesome wagon

disagree

[Eddie Cane]

I mean I guess they can be scum together, but I still town read lex and fitz's actions look more like scum trying to push a mislynch instead of trying to distance/bus

schools done, im about to take my grandmother to chemo ans then go to work. when I have computer access tn I'll make a post about this, remind me if I forget pls

[Papa Zito]

man papa, i really hope you are scum.

It's tough being a useless piece of shit but I get by.

[Eddie Cane]

lexa is an awesome wagon

disagree

but what makes none of the other 10 people viable wagons? it's day 1, the point is to fling shit around until you get stuff you're confident in. If you are confident in mumble (I'm not confident enough in town him to flat out shut that down), fine, if he reveals as ic who's scum?

[Eddie Cane]

man papa, i really hope you are scum.

It's tough being a useless piece of shit but I get by.

.
Kappa

[Cedrick]

lexa is an awesome wagon

disagree

but what makes none of the other 10 people viable wagons? it's day 1, the point is to fling shit around until you get stuff you're confident in. If you are confident in mumble (I'm not confident enough in town him to flat out shut that down), fine, if he reveals as ic who's scum?

yes that is certainly one way to play, I have kind of been waiting to see what mumbles was going to do. Mumbles kind of got aggressive when lexa voted him calling it omgus and such, but now when mumbles has multiple votes on him i don't see the same level of aggression. At least if he would have come back and replicated that, I could buy that maybe it is his playstyle. I also feel we are far enough in the day that I have developed some decent reads that don't really require me to vote them.

i like the fact that we have 2 competing wagons also so no matter who gets lynched, I think we gain some good info.

[Havo]

man papa, i really hope you are scum.

It's tough being a useless piece of shit but I get by.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

doesn't post for ages and comes back unvoting 5 minutes after a massive wall and moving on to other things.

“for ages?” What does any of this post have to do with anything? I posted earlier that day and several times afterwards. And a few times Sunday. Are my post time patterns suspect to you?

That was before I ISOd you. Hence change in that read.

So what was it that made you strongly scumread me prior to ISOing me?

Poe...you weren't among the people I was considering town. I still needed to give you a closer look. So Lexa having you as a scum read was not something I was opposed to at that time pending said closer look.

who was town before? because i am having trouble getting solid townreads atm. strange place to be at.

If I recall correctly…at this point in the game I was leaning town (before any closer inspection) on NSG, rb, Alexcellent, and Awoo.

At this point in the game here’s where I’m at:

NSG, rb, Zito, Mumble are town leans.
Eddie, Alexcellent, Awoo are weaker townleans
Luca and Havo are nulls
Cedrick and GNR are suspect
Lexa is suspect enough to vote.

I’ll give all the players closer once overs as time permits…from suspect to not.

[Havo]

I think she’s coming across as overly defensive and unnecessarily emotional

neither of these are alignment indicative though. In fact those are more often town traits not scum traits. If she flips town, you move into the scum pool. Your progression doesn't seem genuine to me.

Yeah see I agree with this too much

Lexa is not scummy too me.

Cedrick just laid down 2 extremely town posts.

Mumbles is the only one scummy to me but that’s usually how I read him.

VOTE: mumbles

do you not agree his play here is vastly different from his scum game?

I think VASTLY is a stretch. But I see your point.

I find it interesting you’re defending him so hard here. I town read that because I see no scum motivation for it this early.

ESP with Mumbles.

I’m not buying the Lexa wagon tho. Just not there.

[havingfitz]

Your progression doesn't seem genuine to me.

Please elaborate. Deconstruct.

[Cedrick]

I didn't think you had a good reason to even scum read her
your "pause" looked fake to me, like you wanted to appear town trying to reconsider. It looked fake cause your reason for it wasn't very good
Your hop back on looks opportunistic because how we have somebody pushing harder for her lynch, and since your reasons for scum reading her and for giving her "pause" cancel each other out, you are basically back on it for things that I personally have seen town do more often then scum.

I am also not really a fan of that whole iso thing you did because I don't really feel that is an effective way of scum hunting because they just show you not liking posts, they don't really include good analysis as to why those posts make them scum, doesn't show where the scum intent is.

[havingfitz]

I didn't think you had a good reason to even scum read her

I started the Lexa wagon and it's been up to L-2 and you never raised any issue with it before. Why not? I would assume you had an opinion since the Lexa and Mumble wagons have been the two main wagons for this day. What don't you like? That I found her comments towards Havo and support of his wagon to be in conflict with each other? I.e...to not make sense...to be a suspicious "progression"...

How do you feel about the reasons the other players voting Lexa have given?

your "pause" looked fake to me, like you wanted to appear town trying to reconsider. It looked fake cause your reason for it wasn't very good

How does someone fake a pause? Do you think stepping back from an L-2 wagon to consider things over is townish? And if so...why prescribe that my doing it is fake and not from town? If not....why not?
Iirc my reasons to back off Lexa's L-2 wagon were to consider her effort post that at first glance seemed in line with where a lot of my reads on people were. How is that reason not good?

Your hop back on looks opportunistic because how we have somebody pushing harder for her lynch, and since your reasons for scum reading her and for giving her "pause" cancel each other out, you are basically back on it for things that I personally have seen town do more often then scum.

LOLIYF.... First off...I've noticed you use the term hop a few times. Is that a negative connotation you are placing on the act of placing a vote? Are all votes "hops?" I consider it a form of vote shading.
Opportunistic....more shade! What is opportunistic about voting a wagon I started that was being supported just fine when I "paused," and is the same size now as when I got off it? smh...

And how are you seeing my reasons for suspecting Lexa as being cancelled out by my pause? I'm pretty sure neither has cancelled out anything because I still suspect her.

you are basically back on it for things that I personally have seen town do more often then scum.

So you've seen scum do the things I suspect Lexa for? Excellent. So you're saying there's a chance??????
Short of a smoking gun that identifies Lexa as scum...what would separate her actions as town from scum? Nothing.
So short of a a smoking gun that identifies someone as scum should we never suspect anyone?
Would my suspicions carry more weight with you if they were based on gut, tone or POE?

I am also not really a fan of that whole iso thing you did because I don't really feel that is an effective way of scum hunting because they just show you not liking posts, they don't really include good analysis as to why those posts make them scum, doesn't show where the scum intent is.

I couldn't care less. I do the ISO's for me to help establish my reads on players. You don't like it...ignore it. At a minimum it lets people (should they choose to read them) have a "surface level" insight into how I am perceiving another player's posting.

And ironically yours is next

[Cedrick]

Let's get something straight. Just because you voted her first, doesn't mean you started the wagon.

Post 62 I tell somebody else that the contradiction you supposedly found wasn't really a contradiction. I didn't dwell on it though cause that definitely isn't lynch worthy and I never would dream somebody would actually use that as a reason to scum read somebody.

I can't believe you actually asked me how somebody can fake a pause. That is super easy. Unvote for some lame reason making it look like you are actually reconsidering, re-vote later for the same or more poor reasons, especially if the wagon seems to be growing or increasing in popularity.

TADA. you have just faked a pause.

I mean your pause could have been legit, but I don't really feel it was but I concede I could be wrong. only time will tell.

I used the term hop in 179 and 471. For me, To hop means to jump. in terms of mafia, It's voting somebody, especially somebody who already has votes for poor or lack of reasons. Opportunistic votes are votes I would classify as a hop. I feel like both of my usese are spot on.

I have seen scum do things lexa has done, but I have seen town do it way more. This makes it null because there is no real scum intent behind it. Being defensive and emotional is more of a personal playstyle. there are players on site who are very emotional and defensive when under pressure, they do it as both town and scum. If you want to make a case that lex is only emotional and defensive as scum I will gladly listen to that. Go find me examples and I will reconsider my stance on that issue but until you do that, it remains null.

"so you are telling me there is a chance" is weak. if you are town I definitely expect more/better from you, That is basically are saying you are flipping a coin on her alignment.

I do not really like your response/defense of your actions so I stand by my opinion that if lex flips town, you look like a good candidate for scum on the wagon.

[havingfitz]

Let's get something straight. Just because you voted her first, doesn't mean you started the wagon.

Well thanks for clarifying that!

So who did start the Lexa wagon? And what do you think of their reasons?

Post 62 I tell somebody else that the contradiction you supposedly found wasn't really a contradiction. I didn't dwell on it though cause that definitely isn't lynch worthy and I never would dream somebody would actually use that as a reason to scum read somebody.

Ah so. You did make a comment wrt to Lexa (in response to being asked). And you didn’t say it really wasn’t a contradiction…you said “idk if it is”.

How is lobbying for a player to consider the benefits of having a long day while actively efforting to end the day for that same player not a contradiction?

I can't believe you actually asked me how somebody can fake a pause. That is super easy. Unvote for some lame reason making it look like you are actually reconsidering, re-vote later for the same or more poor reasons, especially if the wagon seems to be growing or increasing in popularity.

TADA. you have just faked a pause.

You are painting a misleading picture here.
First…you infer an ad-hom attacking my asking of a question. I.e. “I can’t believe you asked” = how stupid can you be. Let's get something straight… pause is a pause…whether is being done by scum or town. It can’t be fake.

The reasons on the other hand could be. But they aren’t here.
Second…you shade my unvote/pause saying it was for lame reasons. Why were my reasons lame?
How do my actions (ex. ISO of Mumble and Lexa and GNR and re-vote on Lexa) leave any doubt there was re-consideration taking place?
How was the Lexa wagon growing or increasing in popularity? There were no new slots on the wagon. I rejoined it right where I left off. No more and no less votes. The only thing in the game that had changed was Eddie joining (and maintaining NQ’s Lexa vote). Which was not even a consideration to me as I ISO’d Lexa as I came into the game this morning and went straight into my Lexa ISO. I had no knowledge of Eddie’s reads/opinions until after I’d posted my Lexa ISO/vote. I didn’t even realize he had joined the game until I got to the Lexa post that said “Hi Eddie.”
Summary - the reasons you are ascribing to my pause being fake are a load of crap.

I mean your pause could have been legit, but I don't really feel it was but I concede I could be wrong. only time will tell.

Recap - the reasons you are ascribing to my pause being fake are a load of crap.

I used the term hop in 179 and 471. For me, To hop means to jump. in terms of mafia, It's voting somebody, especially somebody who already has votes for poor or lack of reasons. Opportunistic votes are votes I would classify as a hop. I feel like both of my usese are spot on.

Right…so you are using hop and opportunistic to shade perfectly acceptable actions. It feels like you are very interested in protecting Lexa.

I have seen scum do things lexa has done, but I have seen town do it way more. This makes it null because there is no real scum intent behind it. Being defensive and emotional is more of a personal playstyle. there are players on site who are very emotional and defensive when under pressure, they do it as both town and scum. If you want to make a case that lex is only emotional and defensive as scum I will gladly listen to that. Go find me examples and I will reconsider my stance on that issue but until you do that, it remains null.

I’m not meta’ing Lexa. If anyone else has experience with her and wants to chime in fine. FWIW it appears Eddie has experience and he’s voting her. Not sure of the reasons as I type this but perhaps he can opine on the matter.

How do you feel about Eddie voting Lexa?

"so you are telling me there is a chance" is weak. if you are town I definitely expect more/better from you, That is basically are saying you are flipping a coin on her alignment.

It was an homage to a line from “Dumb and Dumber”…something I’m sure a few people might think is appropriate to this discussion.

Why do you say this “if you are town

I definitely expect more/better from you

”…I do not recall having ever played with you.

I do not really like your response/defense of your actions so I stand by my opinion that if lex flips town, you look like a good candidate for scum on the wagon.

Well…I don’t like your defense of Lexa or your criticisms of my intentions. You look like a good candidate for scum regardless of Lexa’s flip. But moreso if she’s scum.