Team Mafia 2018: Mafiosi Revolution (Over)

[Ether]

Day 4, Votecount 22

---

Does she walk? Does she talk? Does she even read?
My hopeless hopeless patsy always made the town's eyes bleed
She kept picking battles too stupid to explain
An endgame with my patsy could win my team the game
Days go by, I'm looking at the triumph of my scheme
And there's my hopeless patsy with two guilties on my team

-[

Centerfold,

The J. Geils Band

]

3 Aristophanes (Firebringer, Cheetory6, Chara)
2 Ginngie (Patrick, UnaBombaH)
1 Chara (Kmd4390)
1 UnaBombaH (Ginngie)

3 Unvote (Aristophanes, implosion, Spiffeh)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
The deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-23 01:00:00), on Friday, February 23 at 1:00 am EST.

---

[Chara]

kmd I'm still waiting for all of Mathdino's detailed reasoning for every single one of his reads
we need his presence in this game
I don't know what to do without it.

No but seriously why am I number 3 on his lynchlist.
I still want to know.
Why.
In detail.
I want every detail.
Of his read.

I'm definitely asking because I'm sorting you.
That's my intention here.

this post is today's mood.

i still don't know what you were going for, Una. a backup doc only knows (or should know) there's a doctor, snd outing themself is usually not something the secret doctor is supposed to do. whether you're a named townie or the doc claimed VT, i don't know what it was about your role that made you think your investigative claim gambit would... do anything? were you trying to make scum fakeclaim an investigate?

[UnaBombaH]

were you trying to make scum fakeclaim an investigate?

I guess it doesn't matter at this point if I explain.
My thought was that if our investigative claims first, BUT DOESN'T GIVE THEIR RESULTS, we then force everyone else to claim.
This way we create the "pressure" for scum to "claim correctly", because there is the looming chance they've been checked/followed/etc.
A Vanilla Goon would obviously still claim Vanilla, but anyone with a modifier in their role would have to either claim truthfully, or fakeclaim with the risk of getting caught.
I stuck to this thought process once Cabd had flipped "informed", but then the whole faked guilty thing happened, so D3 was a blur.
I had a working theory that Cabds information included what type of an investigative we have in the game. Someone who investigates roles over alignment or movement made the most sense with his see-through softing and fakeclaims - I assume he thought he was becoming a prime-choice for a check N1 after all the coasting he had been doing, so he had to come up with something to avoid it.
(according to wiki "Friendly Neighbor" is borderlining "informed" in a sense - FN has the word "informed" in it's terminology), and I guessed his original plan was to twist that softing into an "informed" claim just in case down the line. Don't know what that BP thing was about - I'd guess he wanted to try and draw our RC out by calling out his bullshit.
And even if our investigative was ANYTHING related to roles (Vanilla Cop/Neopolitan, etc) the remaining scum might have had to twist their claim to fit, and there would've been a chance to catch them.

I KNEW THAT OUTRIGHT CLAIMING WOULD LIKELY JUST GIVE US THREE CLAIMED PR'S AT BEST, BUT WOULDN'T PROBABLY SEAL THE GAME.

- unless we could catch the scum in a lie.
My plan would've already protected our Doc, and therefore our investigative, because after my claim I would've told the Doc to claim VT as the only one who was allowed to fakeclaim. (at first)
This would've given them room to hide amongst the Vanillas, but know who to protect while our inv. would've checked the rest of us. (guaranteed two checks because of me being the backup)

Well, as we can now see, it wouldn't have APPARENTLY made a difference, and I also gave up on this "plan" when so many had already claimed or implied VT so heavily.
I'm content with just hanging along this game now - I picked this role-PM just because of the role being able to become a named townie at worst - useful PR at best.

I'm sort of childish with how much I crumb whenever I'm a PR. (no matter what role)

[Chara]

i think it's one of Ari/Kmd.
sort of townreading the rest (implosion, Patrick), and my stance on Ginngie hasn't changed.

Ari i don't really want to scumread anymore, but while i believe he wouldn't have wanted to pick scum, i also believe sometimes things just happen.

[Chara]

I just don't buy the meta point that if Aris is town, he'll definitely start doing more and if he doesn't he has to be scum. I just saw him get mislynch Day 1 for not doing anything in this game:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72907

I'm also not the only one here who saw that happen.

it's day 4.

[Ginngie]

So like

part of me wonders man

like

Ari picking scum

because it's Team Mafia and no one will ever dare to think

like most of us

would be a reason to pick

[Chara]

i'm not really taking it into account anymore. even i considered taking scum before we got our PMs, but Maki very quickly put that to bed.

for Ari, it's a balance between him being town and just struggling very hard to keep up with his own promises (it happens), and him being scum making promises he can't keep.
i do sympathize with the wisdom teeth. they're awful.

[Ginngie]

wisdom teeth?

[Kmd4390]

I just don't buy the meta point that if Aris is town, he'll definitely start doing more and if he doesn't he has to be scum. I just saw him get mislynch Day 1 for not doing anything in this game:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72907

I'm also not the only one here who saw that happen.

it's day 4.

That is correct.

[Patrick]

@Patrick, can you walk me through your implosion townread?

OK. Implosion was actually the first person I looked into after the Mulch lynch, as I was iffy on his Kagami vote. My impression of the way Mulch interacted with implosion on day 1 is that they are not buddies. I want to say that Mulch was buddying up to him but it's not quite that simple, he does berate him and call him a bad player as well - I think Mulch was making a genuine attempt to get implosion to not vote him. I was going to provide examples but holy fuck Mulch's iso is huge and dirty, so I'll just mention a few things: 1605 1688 2001 all refer to a game where implosion was scum, and Mulch says more than once that implosion is totally different here - I think he's more likely to say that if implosion is town; it's just a very easy conclusion for him to come to in that case. I don't think he would take that confident a position if implosion is his buddy.

He calls implosion "beyond obvious town" in 2061, praises his Kagami attack in 2113 in a way that I don't think he does if implosion is scum and which looks like he's really hoping implosion is going to vote Kagami, and more of the same in 2209. I'm aware that Mulch expressed a townread on (I think) the entire playerlist at different points in the game, but I think he was trying to manage/use implosion (oh god, do I get to use the word pocketing here??) and at times he felt frustrated that implosion was making points against him. I think that kind of frustration would be in the PT if they're scum together. I'm not going to do links to every instance of that, but I think it's pretty readable in his posts.

Also imposions posts just seem pretty genuine to me? I feel like he's trying to figure things out, especially today, I feel like he's taking positions he believes in rather than ones that will draw less heat, I think his "fuck, can we just massclaim?" feels genuine. I don't think having a mediocre position on Kagami/Mulch is very damning by itself given that most players alive are guilty of the same, and otherwise he reads as very clean to me (and not in a scum playing well kind of way, in a genuine kind of way).

[Patrick]

Unabombah's last two posts feel protown and I'll be decently impressed if he made them as scum.

[Patrick]

i think it's one of Ari/Kmd.
sort of townreading the rest (implosion, Patrick), and my stance on Ginngie hasn't changed.

You refer to me and implosion as the rest here. Have you written off Cheet, Spiffeh, Firebringer and Una entirely then?

[Chara]

wisdom teeth?

Ari was complaining of it. i assume he had them removed. i also did somewhat recently, and the dentist screwed up. was not especially fun and the pain was very distracting.

[Chara]

You refer to me and implosion as the rest here. Have you written off Cheet, Spiffeh, Firebringer and Una entirely then?

while Fire is the one i'm least confident about of those 4, i am still confident he's town.

[Aristophanes]

wisdom teeth?

Ari was complaining of it. i assume he had them removed. i also did somewhat recently, and the dentist screwed up. was not especially fun and the pain was very distracting.

They have been growing out for years, but they just started hitting nerves, causing a fucktonne of pressure, and headaches galore! I'm gonna get them out soon but until then they are distracting in everything I do.

Cheet, I was talking about those who commented in those pages. You, una, ginngie, uhh...kmd and fb, even Chara. All seemed towny enough and seemed to be trying to advance things. But with 1 scum it seems like we are going to make a couple mislynches before we get the final one. It just seems like the criticisms are mostly townreads on townreads.

[Firebringer]

I swear if one more person makes another argument for what someone would pick, I am scumsiding

[Ginngie]

I think Ether would pick town because

[Firebringer]

Touche

[Chara]

so who are you scumreading/hard townreading, Ari?

[Ether]

Spiffeh has been prodded.

[Spiffeh]

My town list rn is {Cheet, KMD, Una, Chara, Ginngie, Firebringer} roughly in that order

Patrick is probably town too but I haven't done my due diligence there

Leaving Ari and implosion

I'll try to actually for real ISO-dive Ari for associations with Mulch/Cabd and read what I missed today later on

[implosion]

@Chara at one point you realized that you were meta-ing Mulch all wrong and said you'd have to reevaluate that read because of it.

You haven't really mentioned him since, so what is your read there now?

ie:
this is a weird thing to do if your goal is to try to get Kagami lynched while pushing Mulch.

It is.

Idk. I feel like I can come up with all manner of justifications for most things here. This is a really weird game to think about how the third scum would have been approaching it. They'd have a scum chat with Mulch and Cabd, and they'd know out of the gate, if scum is anyone currently alive other than Aristophanes, that they were likely going to have to be the scum who goes deep, and they likely would have known this either immediately on seeing mulch and cabd not getting along, or possibly on cabd's soft and Mulch drawing pressure in mid-d1.

How should third scum act there?

It makes sense for them to distance or even full-on bus. It makes sense to just try to do things that make you not look like scumbuddies with cabd or mulch, if you think that neither of them is going to live for very long. It sort of depends how optimistic the third scum was. If they were optimistic they might have tried to defend or chainsaw but if they were pessimistic and thought that eg mulch's lynch was inevitable then they might have just hard pushed it.

I think the kind of thing Kmd did is pretty clearly not the way you approach it, i.e. you don't want to draw ire with your defense and his defense of mulch was pretty loud and controversial. But maybe spiffeh's actions can make sense?

This is not me trying to convince you, really, it's sort of just I really don't think ari will flip scum.

[Kmd4390]

I agree with implosion's last post and that's almost my exact logic on why Ginngie is town.

[Aristophanes]

so who are you scumreading/hard townreading, Ari?

Lemme look at this tn. I should have lots of time!

My town list rn is {Cheet, KMD, Una, Chara, Ginngie, Firebringer} roughly in that order

Patrick is probably town too but I haven't done my due diligence there

Leaving Ari and implosion

I'll try to actually for real ISO-dive Ari for associations with Mulch/Cabd and read what I missed today later on

I meam, Mulch/me associations are abundant nut that'sjust because I suck at mafia.

Otherwise this is pretty solid actually, but my gut keeps saying you are scum for some reason.
Pending reread of course.

[Ginngie]

So that catch up lol