Mini Normal 1984: Big Brother is watching.. [END GAME]

[profii]

What? The game is at 0mph right now

What is left to sort? Everyone has given a read and it looks like Lalendra could easily have been lynched

I’m ready to place a vote on you first or if town still really want to go with Laleandra I’m confident we’ve found the scum team


The reason you’ve just moved into number 1 spot is I’m confident there is a vig based on 2 kills. I’m happy it’s eth0s based on no cc
I’m really concerned that eth0s claimed 2 shot and intent to fire on a player and you didn’t react to it. The only saving grace is you _did_ scum read him which is probably the only thing making me hesitate putting a vote in

Well to be quite honest I think he is likely only 1-shot, and I think he's claiming what he is to try and get the lynches he thinks are correct.

And we have heard very very little from Kop. That's what's left to sort. Reminder that we don't get another chance at being wrong.

i thought it was a reaction test too but I’d say you failed

[profii]

I actually want to hear from Lalendra at this point

Specifically - what’s your opinion on the last few posts?

If you think Acryon is happy for kop to die to cause a scum win who is his buddy?

[profii]

ok so here is what I think of Lalendra. I'm going to make statements, then link to posts that i think support thoses statements,
I'm hoping we can have some bullet points and some evidence and it's less wall posty which would be better.

Flip flop reads on Profii
35, 253, 538, 1024

flip flop reads on sauce
115, 159, 174, 360, 380

flip flop on dunker
346, 360, 539, 835

flip flop on eth0s
346, 539, 835[post], [post]1043


Lal has concern over me breadcrumbing role:
35
I can't find where Lal actually said what she claims in 1044 that she wasn't the worst lynch, i'll retract this if someone finds it. Interestingly, it was exactly what i meant when i self voted and said it wouldn't be too bad if i died N1, so given it's a play Lal has used, she has also found it scummy in 35


Not paying attention, i think this is a sign of not needing to due to being scum and knowing whos who
252


Lal doesn't rush into votes, now i do this also, but with a scum narrative this could be seen as positioning votes to avoid suspicion in VCA
37 - something she was aware of in 680 - although that was caused by me fudging the unofficial VC because I'm thick.

Buddying
291, 458


I do not understand this:

661

[profii]

do spoiler tags then when you do it...

[profii]

Eth0s, seeing as you have completely diddled me twice in the last 2 games we played, seems sensible to review your ISO too.


Townslips?
17

eth0s doesn't like saucy posts
156, 161, 228, 233, 839


eth0s gets into it with rb
229, 297, 301, 312, 323, 543, 784, 865

eth0s isn't always transparent
292


preconf analysis - eth0s has town read his current targets at some point
Lal - 292, 326, 792, 838, 909, 1074
vs Acryon - 296, 909
vs profii - 545, 593, 670, 944


Involvement in the FL push
562, 691


potential vig breadcrumb
306 - i.e. rb says vig shoot eth0s, eth0s posts a picture of hehehe. Could be ironic laughter.

Conflicting claim
1009, 1 shot vig, 1068 - how will you shoot then? 1074 and why be concerned about a massclaim if you are uncontested and no one else is forthcoming?

[profii]

in conclusion this is a real mixed bag.

The main alarm bells is his claim doesn't make sense. I would put the suggestion out there, if someone knows something that can contest eth0s claim, I think there is value in thrashing it out, even if we potentially lose something over night - at MyLo we urgently need to remove a scum player, so without knowing anyones roles, I think I'd be happy to sacrifice scum for PR to make the game go on another day -but- before you come out, let everyone give their thoughts and make sure you can nail down eth0s if his claim is bad.


Now, the other interesting points are when you look at where eth0s travelled through the game.

He threw shade at Sauce, this was easy to do.
He threw shade at FL,this was easy to do.
He threw a lot of shade at Dunkers, although I didn't think this was relevant so I haven't linked, but it's there for you to go look at. This made me question it because I had a strong dunker town vibe.
He scum reads me, but doesn't scum read lal. I then said I think eth0s is misguided town who doesn't know which players are scum at which point eth0s moves to pocket me and openly declares he is sheeping me. He also has come round since the beginning of this day from not being sure on Lale to sheeping me again.

Now I have eth0s paranoia from our last game together but I wonder if he thinks he can pocket me again. interestingly Lale is only confident on Eth0s. If the scum team was Lale and eth0s, maybe there is an agreement that eth0s can pocket me more easily so the bus has to go on Lal if they need to bus.


IDK, would like to see Acryon/Kop thoughts on this.

[profii]

Eh I think at this point in the game, there's no way we can win unless we operate under the assumption that eth0s is town, and that it's true.

It

is

theoretically within the realm of possibility that scum would fakeclaim something like vig, but it's just soooo risky. And likely unnecessary IMO.

But the bottom line is my first point. I think we are just forced into accepting his claim, because that's the only reasonable way we win.

I'm 90% on board with accepting eth0s claim, but eth0s managed to push every town lynch, he sheeped me as soon as I indicated I had a town read on him because he knows he had me pretty well fooled in the last game and changed his tune to align with my votes fairly quickly in day 3.

I appeal to anyone who might be able to counter claim eth0s in a solid way to ensure we remove scum from the game today and have a chance at the other scum tomorrow. We simply cannot get it wrong.

I'm a flip-floppy player. This game has been no exception. I am pretty much always town and when I am, I am pretty much always scumread. I'm lynchbait. But if you lynch me, we lose. So obviously for me that leaves eth0s, profii, acryon and kop as the possible lynches. If we lynch a townie, we lose. If we no-lynch, we lose. So you better be

real goddamn sure

you want to lynch the person you lynch, and have something better than gut reads, because if we lose this game because "oh idk Lal was just so scummy kek" I'm going to be pissed.

So no concerns over anything I've just posted? Acryon ignoring the fact eth0s said he will kill kop doesn't seem strange? saying he was 1 shot then saying he will kill someone not a problem with you?

Last time I was in MyLo I just chucked a vote in and nearly got away with it, so I'm reluctant... at this point it feels like no one is going to vote so how do we get this started?


Obviously Kop owes us some content but assuming that comes through, we need a plan to move forward in a safe way

[profii]

1/2 - Acryon just said we have to proceed as Eth0s = town ???

3 pressure doesn’t hurt anyone

4 - in the game I was dead set on my scum reads (although I was a PR so had extra info) so I jumped in quick with my vote.1 scum player was VLA and so the scum team couldn’t wagon to win and that time gave me 2nd thoughts to move my vote to my other scum target (which was correct) so I “nearly got away with it” because despite jumping in on a town vote, I just about moved to a scum before my lynch caused a scum wagon and loss for town

Anyway, moral of that story, don’t jump in with a vote... but as per 3, the longer this drags on the more doubt will float into peoples minds which can only be good for scum

[profii]

So Lalendra.

Who is the most scummy out of me / eth0s / acryon.

I'm of the opinion we dont reveal any further information than today's lynch choice to scum so they can't try and divide any town blocks we might have in our minds so I am only looking for 1 name here.

[profii]

I think you are right that eth0s will die.

But, were you in the game with Derpy Serial Killer where he shot the scum and the scum shot him back and they both died for town win.

Will that not be the case with tonight if eth0s is 2 shot?

[profii]

If we vote Kop and he doesn't get hammered right away, we know for a fact that he is scum. It's risky but could work.

I am no where near a kop vote at this point.

[profii]

yeah the only way we go to night is if we lynch scum so that's fine but if eth0s misses, then we don't get back to day, so I think he is a big risk.

As part of being ready to end the game, we need to agree who we are lynching as I agree the gambit is a bit mad and we also need to discuss if we want eth0s to shoot because he could end the game if is claim is legit.

[profii]

I'd forgotten he said he'd specifically shoot you and I don't like the idea of eth0s finishing the game at night of his own accord despite him agreeing with my reads... We can't make any decisions like that before Kop contributes. His slot has less posts than the moderator

[profii]

Wait, who said anything about a SK?

And that's my problem with Kop. At this point it feels like he is deliberately not contributing.

If we lynch me, and eth0s shoots Acry (who I believe is town, and at any rate they're def not scumbuddies), then we lose. If we lynch me and eth0s shoots scum, we have a shot.

idk, I know we can't proceed without Kop, but as this point I'm really concerned we will have to, and then what do we do.

If we lynch town!you it is 2v2 going into night and we lose then

Even if town!eth0s shots a scum the scum would still get a NK and it would leave the game in a 1v1


The reason I referenced a serial killer is that in a game Acryon played, a scum player and SK targeted each other and both died so the point is, if we lynch scum and it goes into night 1v3, if Eth0s s gets it wrong, again, the next day is a 1v1


Eth0s shouldn’t shoot


read my Eth0s analysis again from the perspective that there is 2 scum, 2 town and Eth0s is actually a SK

He has pushed every mislynch, he has threatened to shoot again. It didn’t occur to him to point out his own breadcrumb when claiming. It could be a possibility

Let’s just play it out

We have to lynch scum to go to night, let’s assume we do.
1v1v2
Scum shoot eth0s = 1v2
Eth0s shoots scum = 2 town left, town win


Or

Scum shoot a town,= 1v1v1
Eth0s shoots either and draws with whoever he decides not to kill


I think this game is going to a draw and Eth0s is a serial killer

[profii]

You get your last shot if you get killed or not tonight & you’ve claimed 2 shot anyway so what’s the difference

[profii]

By having a uncountered claim you are highly useful to town because every town player is saying - if we get scum today, I trust eth0s tomorrow in MyLo part 2 - so the target is on your head regardless

[profii]

We are now in the same point as the last game where you’re being daft on purpose which alarms me

Someone had to claim the double kill obviously and you can’t claim SK so vig makes sense and gets you town trust

[profii]

What are you talking about me being daft? You are heavily misinterpreting me if you think I'm being anything less than serious here. Either that or you're just putting too much stock into me being an SK. I still want to know why you think SK is even possible here in a 10 person game with no evil being dead. in a 10p game I hiiiighly doubt there will be 3 evil. And again, why would there be 1 scum and a neutral killer? There's no point in a single-scum game imo.

I hate that you're being like this because now you have me re-evaluating my stance on you trying to figure out why you're trying to build a case on SK!me. I just don't understand. I said earlier that I think it's either acryon&lale or kop&profii, and with kop STILL giving us nothing to work with and profii getting all flip-floppy on me for little/no reason, I am starting to lean on the latter.

Ok I’m not voting you today but I am declaring you SK

2:30am here and I accidentally fell asleep on my sofa so explaination tomorrow (Saturday not day 4 lol)

[profii]

What are you talking about me being daft? You are heavily misinterpreting me if you think I'm being anything less than serious here. Either that or you're just putting too much stock into me being an SK. I still want to know why you think SK is even possible here in a 10 person game with no evil being dead. in a 10p game I hiiiighly doubt there will be 3 evil. And again, why would there be 1 scum and a neutral killer? There's no point in a single-scum game imo.

I hate that you're being like this because now you have me re-evaluating my stance on you trying to figure out why you're trying to build a case on SK!me. I just don't understand. I said earlier that I think it's either acryon&lale or kop&profii, and with kop STILL giving us nothing to work with and profii getting all flip-floppy on me for little/no reason, I am starting to lean on the latter.

As per the discussions between me and Thor, where we discussed the merits of the scum either splitting their votes on and off wagons or I said they’d both push mislynches - we don’t actually know at this point of course, however the reason for this debate was that 10 is a really awkward number for town to get a majority vote.

2v1v7 seems like a fair setup

Wait. SK doesn't win with scum do they? I guess that means it could be like 2 town 2 scum 1 SK... I still don't think that is gonna be the case in a 10 person game but I guess I need to it into consideration.

exactly what I’m thinking but if you are not SK why do you care, I would highly doubt a SK plus 2 shot vig.

Ok let’s see if your defence adds up and put this to bed-

1114: Why would I stick my neck out and claim vig if I were SK?

In isolation, I’d say you are right, a uncontested vig claim makes you valuable to town so scum will kill you are try and convince the remaining town players to lynch each other- you in MyLo2 would be useful to have if you were conf!vig


1115: What I'm saying is why would I put a target on my head by saying I have another vig shot if I'm SK? That doesn't make any sense.

a one shot vig that claims to have already used his shot is about the same priority as a VT as far as NK's are concerned.

The only reason the vig might be an inherently better person to kill would be if the role claim made them conf town


The red bit - disagree as per response to 1114 - you would have been helpful in MyLo2 so are a high priority kill for scum now, regardless of vig powers.
Ah that’s exactly what you agree in the last sentence. Why is your role claim not conf town at this point? If that is the case why did you even claim?!


1121: Wait. SK doesn't win with scum do they? I guess that means it could be like 2 town 2 scum 1 SK... I still don't think that is gonna be the case in a 10 person game but I guess I need to it into consideration.

This looked like something you want to PM the mod!

If you have another kill it will happen simultaneously to the scum kill, so if you do have another kill - even if the scum do target you, you will get your kill.

The only way we get to night is if we lynch scum, which leaves one scum in the game. So if you are SK or not I have no intention of lynching you - don’t worry about that.

There is a limited way the game will play out-

We mislynch and lose, obviously

Or we lynch scum so they have 1 player

Then at night we either have
Scum kill eth0s
Vig!eth0s kills scum
Town win

Or
Scum kill Eth0s
SK!kills scum
...
Town lynch Eth0s when a night scum flips but game continues

Or
Scum kill eth0s
SK!eth0s kills town
...
Game goes to 1v1v1 draw


Or
Scum kill eth0s
Eth0s doesn’t shoot

And we go into 2v1 with the last scum



We should really just forget this suggestion that you are a serial killer- we should have the discussion about weather you should shoot or not based on the above scenarios and if you are vig, great, if you are in fact a SK you control the game as long as we lynch scum now

[profii]

I think Lal is the lower risk vote today

[profii]

I’m happy to discuss any order of voting- I’m still not sure how this works but if by not rushing the vote it helps someone town block me, it means the scum will struggle to divide me and eth0s out of the block tomorrow, hopefully that makes sense

But I sense the right thing at this point is to get it done

[profii]

can you give us any more than he was a lurker?

[profii]

Who would you put as his number 2 ? You had eth0s earlier but do you think his claim was legit or do you stick with eth0s

[profii]

Haha I was going to ask that too

[profii]

Yea one of you and me are going to die, that leaves us vs kop and Acryon who in theory will just vote each other

We need to look at Acryons ISO, I’d do Kops but there isn’t much hope

[profii]

Yea I read that. I’ll do a post with my Acryon reads as I see a couple bits slightly differently to you. The fact kop voted is irking me enough to consider it being Lal/kop

[profii]

That’s poor

[profii]

I really wanna vote Lal but don’t want to set a rush off

[profii]

If we vote now and Lal flips scum, kop bein replaces may erm help us decide

[profii]

No, if we lynch Lal and the game gets stuck because kop is awol we know he is scum haha. I think the mod would block that.

[profii]

We can get a dayphase extension. Any townie would be pushing for

that

, not the "lynch now think later" approach you're wanting to take in MYLO...

I’d be happy to extend if we had active players contributing but I can’t bear another week of 3 posts per day (hyperbole to make a point)

[profii]

It seems obvious Lal is scum. Why drag this day on. Make it a long night or longer final day

[profii]

if we mislynch we lose so I think that's mylo (not lylo? I always get confused )

[profii]

Going to be asking some questions that were maybe already answered, sorry if that's annoying.

It obviously wasn't a serious vote - however, if you lot decide it was super scummy and move to lynch me - that's ok but before the hammer, I can tell you it's an ok play for town but definitely not the best... consider that a breadcrumb for later.

Did this ever get explained? Seems scummy if profil claimed vt later.

Soft claim VT so losing VT better than losing PR was my thinking as people think the way to play this game is push for a claim on day 1 and out a PR quite a lot

I can’t even rememeber if I’ve fully hard claimed in this game so if I haven’t I am hard claiming VT

[profii]

Self vote experiment

I like to play outside normal conventions

To be fair it didn’t go well

[profii]

In a few hours it’s 6am and I’m getting ready for work

[profii]

But leave anything you want to know and I’ll get back to you

[profii]

Ok - Lal seems to be so apathetic I’m fairly confident that’s a scum slot. Last time I was at MyLo I argued for about 3 pages because someone accidentally scum read me and I wouldn’t give up on losing the game. Through missing details and not going back to find stuff like the breadcrumb she just referenced makes me think she’s half give up and accepted her fate of likely lynch today.

Eth0s could fit 2 shot vig or SK - doesn’t matter because either way he needs to kill scum today so he is a pro town slot on day 3

You- I await your summary, your slot has been so quiet

Acryon- really could go either way. I’ll make a firmer decision after I conclude on you

I’m not 100% sure it matters, if Eth0s does shoot tonight he has control of the game, assuming we are right on Lal and we get a night 4

[profii]

well I need to look at Acryon's ISO as eth0s did it and I didn't do my own.
Where I am at is, eth0s = most pro town and Lal is least, but because of the lack of content from the Lovebird slot I am struggling to sort Acryon and Lovebird. So let's do that.

I'll do it in my usual style of saying something about Acryon's play and linking the posts that back that up. I mentioned earlier that I was looking at Acryon differently to eth0s so hopefully this will help

Casting aspersions on Sauce (who we know is town ofc)
25, 41, 58, 61, 112, 164, 195, 199,

Aspersions on Lal
249,

Wanting people to play the game, this seems pro-town.
173, 180, 279, 355, 881 (wants Kop to play via voting him),


shutdown on game speculating,
29, 367, 375,

insightful reads
696 - everyone is all likely wrong on town reading Sauce, the 3 listed players flipped town. Acryon also doesn't know how anyone can scum read FL, which I pushed heavily and Acryon is yet to push me. Interesting.

Defence of the Lovebird slot
725,

Self defence
802, interesting defence of the early town block (which we didn't know at the time, was perfect)

[profii]

Conclusion to the above

The most interesting thing is that Acryon shut down Sauce very quickly on Day 1 when speculating about game setup. Now, with 10 players, I can see a 2v1v7 setup quite easily, because even numbers are a butt for getting a majority so adding a SK out of the potential 3 scum seems like a balancing ploy.

A sensible serial killer wouldn't kill til late on otherwise the whole vig claim thing becomes an risk for the SK's win con - i.e. scum kill what is essentially an innocent child or a player that may have 2 shots and didn't tell us if that was the claim (etc etc etc)

Now, eth0s didn't jump on his breadcrumb that I found, so there is a distinct possibility that I put words in his mouth. If I leave a breadcrumb, I'm ready to deploy it the second I need to verify a claim so this has bothered me somewhat.


So let's just spin my theory on it's head. Eth0s killed rb with no counter claim, so let's say that's ok. Let's say my setup theory of a SK is also ok for the sake of this speculation.
If I'm the SK, would I contest the vig claim? it basically means 1 of 2 players will die, one being "me" (the hypothetical SK) or the other claimer, which is a risk for my win con.

the SK's win con is to kill everyone else, so by letting eth0s run away with his vig claim and the town head towards a mislynch, that works for an SK.

that puts some weight behind the idea that Lal is actually town, because everyone is happy for her to die in this theory.


So by default, that means:

Scum - eth0s, Lovebird
SK - Acryon
town - Me and Lal.


I'm confident there is a SK which makes picking a lynch tough because I'm going to make a weird deal.

We have to lynch a scum so it may come down to Acryon vs eth0s if people go with the idea that there is a SK amongst us.

The night then comes down to pot luck if the SK/Scum shoot each other and give us a town win, or if the scum decide to shoot a town, just to make it a 1v1v1 draw - or someone gets it wrong and someone wins.


IDK but my gut tells me there is an SK in this game.

[profii]

5 players, 2 scum and 3 town; town gets lynched and another gets NK'ed, isn't that end of game, town loses?

Might as well claim since everyone seems to suspect me. I'm VT. That's why earlier I said I am not the worst lynch, but certainly not the best. (i.e. not a PR, but also not scum.)

Just reading back on my Lal analysis - if Lal can just find this on my behalf because I can't (the bit where you say you are not the worst lynch)

I think given my uncertainty on Acryon and Eth0s, the low risk lynch is Lovebird as this is more certain scum

[profii]

That's a shame, I was hoping for some town points for you.

Basically I'm at the point where Lovesick needs to prove she is town otherwise, she is my preference.

If everyone can convince me that there is absolutely no SK in this game, I would also review, but I reckon there will be.

The other part of my theory is that eth0s scum killed rb because scum wanted to. Acryon said Thor was a good player, so Acryon SK'd Thor to remove a strong player after me pushing him wasn't going anywhere.


this is tough.

[profii]

I’m not that good on how the setups go on this site either. There is just something weird about eth0s claim - particularly that I reminded him about a bread crumb that he forgot & he set him self up for claiming another NK tonight by saying 2 shot. In a game I just played with him, he was scum and ignored my argument that I could have used my JK power to game solve - he has also not engaged the point that he said he would kill someone tonight which takes the game out of towns hands and solely into his. This is also suspect. Surely, we should democratically leash the 2 shot vig power - I think it’s a slip that eth0s hasn’t entered into this topic, he could have humoured me and shot anyway

So, if a SK is in the game, their first kill was the day before MyLo, be that Eth0s or Acryon, they picked a good time to claim vig and create a town block, seeing as no other double kills have happened, they can safely assume there isn’t a real big and make that claim. I am guessing we wouldn’t have a SK and a vig in a setup.

There is also the Acryon shutdown on game setup discussion way early on, which makes me think all the first paragraph matches a case where Eth0s has another kill because he is scum and Acryon is keeping quiet on the vig claim because if he contests it, the SK win con becomes at huge risk because we would end up lynching Eth0s or Acryon and if you actually are scum, maybe Acryon can get the other scum for his win con over night


My gut is just telling me that there is something not right about the vig claim and this fits best

[profii]

Oh eth0s eth0s eth0s

[profii]

If Lal isn’t scum, scum just won.

If Lal is town best case is scum shoot me and SK shoots a scum to make it a draw

[profii]

The first one was the scenario of no SK, I hate not having an edit button

You also said if Lal flips town you are going to do something at night, but you say there is no SK

You obviously know something

[profii]

If you are not scum you want to shoot one of the voters. I’m obviously not the SK because I wouldn’t out myself under no pressure and I didn’t rush vote the lynch - so if Lal flips town, I’ve no idea how that makes me go scum

For a bit I thought you were calling me scum to see who would agree to rush me with you and the. We could have found the scum

[profii]

But I don't know which action takes place first. Someone said a vig shot goes off before scum shots do? what if there's an sk in the mix?

Were you in the game with me where derby shot rb and vice versa - simultaneous

[profii]

I’m not scum and I don’t think Lal was

Lovebird was scum, Acryon or you SK/scum can’t sus that though

[profii]

Nah

[profii]

Eth0s did you actully think I was scum?

I genuinely thought because the game was going 0mph you decided to scum read me to see if a scum player jumped on it and tried to town block with you against me. Neither did but I would have placed my vote as soon as it happened

Your 2 shot thing pinged me as weird and the SK read was probably a distraction- you went into the same mode as last game where you weren’t listening so I thought you were dodgey

[profii]

I did also say it didn’t really matter and the SK should have been considered pro town in the day phase as they want to kill scum too

[profii]

@acryon Two simple phrases may help you in future post-game discussion: An intelligent person doesn't quote the post he's addressing when it's the last one..

Any other forum I’d agree but it’s so annoying when trying to read ISO’s