Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2175 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:46 am

I want people to Meta Dive Gamma and tell me if you see any glaringly obvious differences between his Town game and Scum game.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2176 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:47 am

In post 2174, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2173, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 2172, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2171, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 2168, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2167, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 2166, Gamma Emerald wrote:All I am seeing here from LQ is "I want to connect Ran and Gamma through them defending each other". I've seen enough.
VOTE: LicketyQuickety
If that is what I am saying, would you say that is inaccurate?
Well yeah, you're trying to argue we're scum through that connection
Why would that be something that wouldn't be a tell?
The issue is fmpov, I know I'm town so I am calling you out for softballing this accusation
Why would me softballing mean I am Scum tho?
It's that you're holding it out like this, like let the act go we can all see it, I at least know how to press someone without blowing my load.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

ISO · Post Post #2177 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:48 am

In post 2175, LicketyQuickety wrote:I want people to Meta Dive Gamma and tell me if you see any glaringly obvious differences between his Town game and Scum game.

Yes and what does that have to do with ranmaru at ALL.

Gamma Emerald · Post Post #2178 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:50 am

In post 2177, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 2175, LicketyQuickety wrote:I want people to Meta Dive Gamma and tell me if you see any glaringly obvious differences between his Town game and Scum game.
Yes and what does that have to do with ranmaru at ALL.

That's actually one of the problems I have with LQ's push
Why does Ran lie about my meta?

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2179 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:51 am

In post 2177, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 2175, LicketyQuickety wrote:I want people to Meta Dive Gamma and tell me if you see any glaringly obvious differences between his Town game and Scum game.
Yes and what does that have to do with ranmaru at ALL.

I'll explain later if someone doesn't figure it out by then. First I need a few people to look at a few games of Gamma's and I need Ran to give detailed reasoning for why he is TRing Gamma based on meta.

ISO · Post Post #2180 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:56 am

cheet says he'll get to it tomorrow if he's not still feeling sick.

Ranmaru · Post Post #2181 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:21 pm

Here's what I can do: After you give your case on Gamma, I can explain my Gamma Town Read, and link you to the games I have played with him. That's it. When I reference his meta, I'm talking about games I have played with him. (Hint: I've already referenced two of them)

Did you read the games you asked for, LQ? What did you gain from reading those games?

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2182 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:27 pm

In post 2181, Ranmaru wrote:Here's what I can do: After you give your case on Gamma, I can explain my Gamma Town Read, and link you to the games I have played with him. That's it. When I reference his meta, I'm talking about games I have played with him. (Hint: I've already referenced two of them)

Did you read the games you asked for, LQ? What did you gain from reading those games?

Nope. It's dependent on you giving your read (and most importantly why) first.

Ranmaru · Post Post #2183 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:32 pm

No. Burden of proof is on you. Also you can just check my reads list in my ISO.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2184 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:33 pm

In post 2183, Ranmaru wrote:No. Burden of proof is on you. Also you can just check my reads list in my ISO.

My vote isn't moving until I see why you are meta reading Gamma as Town.

Ranmaru · Post Post #2185 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:40 pm

I've already answered your meta question, so you have already seen it. #2068

Now explain your Gamma Scum read.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2186 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:58 pm

In post 2068, Ranmaru wrote:Gamma: I see Gamma making sense and being genuine in his pushes.

Generic read, yawn.

I understand his feelings on Marquis feeling scummier than Eddie (sort of) in that Marquis's EOD posting was not good at all.

That is how you understand Gamma's point, not a reason to TR him. Do you think Scum make bad pushes all the time? If you do, then you haven't played with good Scum players.

I can understand how my shift from that may have made him paranoid.

This is something I will have to revisit. Can you quote where this happened?

Marquis was my only lead at the beginning of Day 2, yet I was going to re-read. Then Day 2 happened and I just re-evaluated from things happening in the present. Him re-considering as I talked to him felt townie too. That's without the meta.

OK. So you are saying here that because Gamma reevaluated means he is Town?

With meta, I again, feel he's been the towniest I've ever seen him, and seems like his play from The Thing Mafia (which I already linked to LQ).

How does it resemble that game? Be specific.

Again, he's a player that plays by the book, but is improving, and can be stubborn at times.

Why do you say he plays by the book and that he is improving? What do you mean by him playing by the book? What do you mean by him improving? What is he improving on?

His forced reaction seems to be what I would expect from Gamma, especially if someone insults (or he feels they have insulted) his experience.

I can't say I have seen him react that way. What posts specifically are you talking about?

Yet for him, it actually makes sense, as opposed to Eddie who comes with a forced tone out of no where.

Why make this distinction between Gamma and Eddie here? What is that suppose to tell us about Gamma really?

LQ, it seems like it might also be an LQ thing. I realize by now, he's my only strong town read. The only thing I don't get is his Eddie town read he had. That's all though.

You have not answered at all what the actual difference between Gamma's Town game and Scum game is. What is Gamma doing in this game specifically that you think is out of his Scum range? I am looking for a compare and a contrast between games here and I am not seeing it.

Ranmaru · Post Post #2187 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:07 pm

This I can answer to, but it'll have to wait until after work.

Ranmaru · Post Post #2188 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:08 pm

CES

: Can I get two more scum picks for today? Have you re-evaluated your reads? Can you explain your read on Davsto?

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2189 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 pm

So that would be the read.

Ran's defense of Gamma is completely unwarranted. He keeps saying it's a meta read, but he has yet to demonstrate how this game is any different that Gamma's other games. The reason I wanted people to look at Gamma's games is to show that Gamma is remarkably good at copying his Town meta. So then for Ran to just give these lame ass "reasons" for a "Meta Read" which isn't even a distinction between his Town and Scum games shows something funny is going on here.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2190 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:24 pm

I should have forced Ran to give the difference between Gamma's Town games first. Kinda regret caving and letting out my case so soon.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2191 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:26 pm

That said, I asked Ran for his meta read on Gamma, and hopefully people see that Ran's meta read of Gamma is BS.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2192 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:31 pm

In post 2179, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 2177, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 2175, LicketyQuickety wrote:I want people to Meta Dive Gamma and tell me if you see any glaringly obvious differences between his Town game and Scum game.
Yes and what does that have to do with ranmaru at ALL.
I'll explain later if someone doesn't figure it out by then. First I need a few people to look at a few games of Gamma's and I need Ran to give detailed reasoning for why he is TRing Gamma based on meta.

And Ran's meta read of Gamma is so far removed from "detailed" that it's not even funny.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2193 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:09 pm

In post 1567, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I'll explain my GE scum read now. The main thing is that he seems much too concerned with whether his votes seem justified or not; as town you know you find people suspicious and you can vote for them, it doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. #703 is definitely the worst offender - the actual case thing seems to consist mostly of him throwing slushy snowballs at Tchill and although he apparently thinks it's good enough to justify his vote, there's no sign he wants to encourage anyone to read any part of it. And there's lines like "Given that and the fact Something_Smart is telling me not to trust you, I feel comfortable with this." in #256 which just sounds so awkward to me, as if there's some bar that must be met before he's allowed to vote Shea. The amount of time he's spent not voting matches up with this too. (The vote on Marquis earlier Today was a welcome exception but I'd like to believe that could be a sign of a GE-Marquis partnership.)

Eddie, what do you personally think about Ranmaru? (I'm not interested in Mastina's opinion.)

Switch to Gamma.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2194 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:12 pm

In post 1512, Ranmaru wrote:Gamma does tend to play by the book, in general. When I say he's scummy as scum, he's scummy. Here in comparison, he's pretty townie to me. If he's scum, this is the most townie I have seen him be and I applaud him, yet I think he's town. So I want you to try to work with him. Your response towards Gamma at the end of D1 was a bit snarky, so I could understand why he's miffed at you.

Just reminding people of some things Ran has said about Gamma...

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2195 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:24 pm

In post 1699, Ranmaru wrote:Gamma is town.

Why? So far you have been talking to Gamma like he is your best bud, yet this is the first time we see you explicitly say Gamma is Town. What was this read based on? And why didn't you give any reasons for reading Gamma as Town?

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2196 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:27 pm

In post 1808, Ranmaru wrote:
Lycanfire
: Meta. Gamma as scum doesn't really have interest in posting, from what I have seen. Gamma here has been saying sensible things and putting in work. His paranoia of me earlier Day 2 was also townie, not something I'd expect from scum him. Earlier you said that my conclusion on Shea was wrong (SvS) so I want to know, how did that conclusion affect your read on Shea and why?

Here you say Gamma is a meta read, but don't reference any evidence to back it up. Why not?

Ranmaru · Post Post #2197 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Like I said, I'll show you what I mean later. I think you are town, and think this is not helping us find actual scum. You are just being distracting right now. Reason for not casing Gamma as town: I didn't need to. I've already explained the gist. If you really need me to explain (which you have already asked questions about, and I have said I will get back to you on that) I shall. Your case isn't really a case. Also, don't spam. You are being anti-town.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2198 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:45 pm

In post 1833, Ranmaru wrote:Trust me, he's improving. He's town though. I'll let him respond before I comment further.

What do you mean "he is improving"? Why do you feel Gamma's play is sub-par? From what I have seen, Gamma is a pretty competent player. I don't get this "oh, but he's getting better" angle. Like this is why I am SRing Gamma - because I feel like you are trying to say Gamma is just this helpless little player who can't do anything himself. So then you say he "new" and "improving" to say why he is Town. It doesn't make sense to me.

LicketyQuickety · Post Post #2199 (ISO) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:46 pm

In post 2197, Ranmaru wrote:Like I said, I'll show you what I mean later. I think you are town, and think this is not helping us find actual scum. You are just being distracting right now. Reason for not casing Gamma as town: I didn't need to. I've already explained the gist. If you really need me to explain (which you have already asked questions about, and I have said I will get back to you on that) I shall. Your case isn't really a case. Also, don't spam. You are being anti-town.

My case is most def a case! How is it not a case? Like I have caught Scum doing this exact same thing before. How are you going to say this is not a case?