Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[mutantdevle]

Votecount 1.2

(3)

wilky - voted by: Espeonage, TheGoldenParadox, Not_Mafia.

(2)

Thor665 - voted by: skitter30, Korina.

(2)

Not_Mafia - voted by: Dr Fanta, BuJaber.

(1)

LaserGuy - voted by: wilky.

(1)

Montosh - voted by: LaserGuy.

(1)

Korina - voted by: Beefster.

(1)

skitter30 - voted by: Thor665.

(1)

Beefster - voted by: Montosh.

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for a majority. Only 6 votes are needed for a no lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-03-01 17:30:00)

[Korina]

Jfc, that's a long time. I'm used to Town of Salems forums day-length, which is 3-5 irl days, not 14.

Oh well, time for a long game.

[Espeonage]

If you thought the phases were shorter I would have expected much less backseat play from you.

Are you used to such low posting rates in the shorter days as well? Or are you just happy to sit and watch everyone play around you?

[Korina]

For me, I'm used to (mostly) idling d1 out, because 1) RVS

usually

takes up like half the day, and then after RVS basically everyone idles for the rest of the day, because well, half the day is already over, and unless there was a major scumslip, nobody really can do any real scumhunting.

And yes, I'm used to d1 being very slow, and then from then-forth it getting more active.
D2 is normally where I start being more active regardless.

[Korina]

I can't scumread memes. After RVS ends, people try to be more serious, which results with some conversation, and probably an RVS or whoever seemed scummiest in conversation.

[Espeonage]

Why even partake in RVS if you are going to dismiss it as useless?

And on a more topical note, why do you scumread Thor if you just idle through day 1 unless there is a scumslip?

[Espeonage]

unvote

[Korina]

RVS is fun. I participate within the first half of it, because why not?
Also, I still read the thread d1, I just don't post as often d1.

[Montosh]

Your perspective is wrong. For Town, the odds of hitting scum D1 in this game are ridiculously good. In a typical setup, it's like 20%. In this game, it's nearly 50%. Your comment makes sense coming from the point of view of scum, but not of Town.

Scum are not going to try and lynch their partners. With that in mind and noting that this setup is majority town means that a mislynch remains the most likely scenario Day 1. Yes, scum groups targeting each other raise the odds of a scum lynch, but nowhere near the levels you're suggesting. A cursory glance at the previous game played with this setup listed on the wiki reveal this to be the case.

The ability to recognize this is not limited to scum, it's limited to those who read the setup.

VOTE: wilky Serious vote, Montosh is scum too. Wolves NK Thor pls

You gonna expand on any of that?

[Not_Mafia]

No

[Korina]

Why not?

[skitter30]

Does that describe your case?

tldr: I think by casting it as binary, you framed/created a conflict that was likely favorable to you, when the argument/conflict didn't need to become a thing in the first place.

In doing so I set up a situation where other people could assess the issue and offer their thoughts.

ie this isn't doesn't accurately represent what I'm arguing. My problem isn't that you highlighted some issue and brought it to everyone's attention so that people can discuss it (ie scumhunting). My problem is that I think you artificially framed the issue as a you v him conflict (ie you highlighted the conflict aspect) which encourages people to pick sides (which is what happened shortly thereafter, people were saying they agreed with you or paradox), and I think that it was an opportunistic/manipulative way of getting people to side with you because you can most likely out-argue paradox.

Everything else is burden of proficiency, yeah?
Just because I'm more capable of winning a debate with someone does not mean that, by definition, I am scum and they are town. It is quite possible I am town and am just capable of winning debates...yeah? I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to scumhunt people I can debate better than and still be protown.

No, it doesn't inhrently mean that you're scum. But it does mean that I think you opportunistically took advantage of the situation to get people to listen to you.

I agree I set it up as binary.
I disagree that I set it up as scum/town, which you appear to be implying for your case to make sense. I look forward to being proven wrong about that.

You set it up as a conflict between you and him. I don't think you were necessarily setting it up as scum/town, but my point is that you set it up so that there would be *sides* where they didn't necessarily naturally exist.

2. I'll agree that other players are noticing that I am using logic and appear to be scumhunting. I'll also agree that a roughly equal number of players are calling my aggressiveness/being town read scummy. So...?

Yes, and that happened *after* I started going on about this. Before that, you were being largely townread, which is kinda my point. (ie specifically: Bujaber in 33, Paradox himself in 36, Beef in 34, although admittedly for unrelated reasons, and you accused wilky of buddying you)

Also, I'm going to do this;

VOTE: skitter

Until he can describe how he isn't calling me scum for scumhunting.

a) she

b) this is kinda a bad/awkward/weird vote, and no, not because it's on me.

I don't think you're actually calling me scum anywhere; if you are, I missed it and I'd appreciate a tldr. If you're not calling me scum, why are you voting me exactly? If I don't give you an answer you like, you just gave yourself an excuse to votepark me forever. And if I do give you an answer you like, like what was the point?

--------

I'm not surprised that people are engaging in it. I am suspicious of people who see an argument and immediately infer that one of the participants must be scum. This feels opportunistic to me.

Getting townpings from this.

---------

.

I think I'm townreading you here so far, as your thoughts seem more *real* and *nuanced* than like anything you posted in math's game.

-------

I'm a little bit confused why you went back to RVS when the game had kinda already left it.

Tbh you aren't making much sense to me, but I can't tell rn if that's a scummy thing or a playstyle thing.

--------

VOTE: wilky Serious vote, Montosh is scum too. Wolves NK Thor pls

This is opportunistic af.

OK, why is this opportunistic?

[Beefster]

Why not?

Because it's Not_Mafia. That's just how he plays.

[Beefster]

As far as I'm concerned NM is null until we can pin associations by vote patterns.

But I guess I'd be okay lynching him as a last resort if we're 3 days from deadline. 5/11 isn't too bad of odds.

[Beefster]

What do I have to do to get some discussion going on here? This game is as dead as a funeral home!

@mod: perhaps a massprod is in order?

- Prods are issued to anyone and everyone that has not posted within the last 48 hours everytime I check the activity. I check the activity fairly frequently though less so on most weekdays due to being at college.

[BuJaber]

It is opportunistic... because NM always plays like this?

What kind of answer is that? And why are you even answering for wilky?

I agree NM is null (though I'm still convinced there's a good chance of finding scum among the lurkers - even if people disagree) but how wilky jumped to that conclusion is beyond me. 2 votes is barely a wagon, and there were other choices with 2 votes too. NM can't possibly know that wilky would be the lynch today it's far too early.

[BuJaber]

NM so you scumread Thor?
Why? Why not?

Upon rereading I have comvinced myself that skitter v Thor is definitely TvS. Or in this game possibly SvW. So I'll be voting there and only there. Whether you like it or not Thor you made it binary.

VOTE: Skitter

[Espeonage]

NM parked all last game as scum and got a free ride bc of 'lol NM'.

I would be interested to know if he will respond to pressure but would have to be actual lynch pressure not just a half arsed wagon.

[Espeonage]

NM so you scumread Thor?
Why? Why not?

Upon rereading I have comvinced myself that skitter v Thor is definitely TvS. Or in this game possibly SvW. So I'll be voting there and only there. Whether you like it or not Thor you made it binary.

VOTE: Skitter

Ooooooo, the hypocrisy.

You know there's five scum to find and you just tried to ease yourself to a vote between two people.

Vote: BuJ

That will sit well until people force NM to do something.

[Espeonage]

Going to admit before I get asked I have not read skitt v thor.

[BuJaber]

Yup 5 scum. Definitely some among the lurkers. But how do you pick one lurker over the other? Skitter Thor is 50-50. Lurker vote is more random.

Also by saying I am only voting for 2 people I give others a false sense of security. But yeah I'm pretty sure I am only voting one of those 2.

[BuJaber]

Serious question what is worse letting NM coast because he's NM or lynching him early because he's NM?

[Espeonage]

Yup 5 scum. Definitely some among the lurkers. But how do you pick one lurker over the other? Skitter Thor is 50-50. Lurker vote is more random.

Also by saying I am only voting for 2 people I give others a false sense of security. But yeah I'm pretty sure I am only voting one of those 2.

what makes you so certain there is a scum in there?

And don't go backtracking "i'm creating a false sense of security".

Happy here.

[Espeonage]

Serious question what is worse letting NM coast because he's NM or lynching him early because he's NM?

Letting him coast.

[Not_Mafia]

I would be interested to know if he will respond to pressure

I won't, not day 1 at least