Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Ranmaru]

I have to say why I hate to admit it more though. I realize that my line of thinking is so contrary to what the norm is that it's borderline detrimental to Town. I have always been like this in Mafia and it's more annoying than you are probably thinking. I realize that by being so unconventional in what I am looking at compared to others that it's almost impossible for me to actually get a good grasp of what is going on in the game. Players like Llama, tho they don't back up what they are saying very well, have a much better understanding of what is going on in the game at the time. It pains me to admit that I am probably just slow in understanding things. It's really rather embarrassing.

I think you should not be so hard on yourself. I think there are some parts of your play you can tweek, but there are some good things in the core of it. Llama's been playing this game for a long while, and even in 2011 he was competent when I was messing up! Read this game for a laugh at me: Mini 1146. I think you are still finding things out, there are things I feel you should temper, like you multi-posting more than 5 times, etc. Your attitude towards things 'don't care, that's how I play' can have a side-effect of hurting town at some points. Although it can also help people see you are confident and townie, it can make things muddy. It's also probably exacerbated by my detailed questioning about your mistakes. I don't think this is something you should be embarrassed about, in fact, you should be happy that you are learning what mistakes you can improve on. I think it'll help you to become better, and what better then honing yourself in a competition. Now I do want you to try to keep in mind the posting. I would prefer you wall post those series of posts, even though I'm all for concise posts. I'm sure there are still parts of your play you can keep as your core 'you'. I prefer you keep yourself balanced but with your own preference and style. I think you shouldn't rely too hard on Occamz razor. Note that RC has not just had problems with myself, he's had problems with Shea and Davsto as well. I think you are town and I think we can win this as long as you don't rely too hard on the razor. I also don't think casing is working too well for you. I want to say for you, to try limiting yourself to three concise points, with links, and try to talk about the scum motivation. That way it's easier for you to get to the point. (When I say this, you kind of have to factor in the big picture, not just the small details) Read this: Mafia Universe Wolf Hunting Guide Good guide that I should re-read again. In fact I encourage anyone wanting to improve to read it. Another reason I want you to limit your points is so scum (or misguided town) don't get an issue with one of your points and then causes a whole long interaction over one point when you have more than three. (It's happened to me before) I would love to talk more about this after team mafia. I felt this was important to post.

[Ranmaru]

Gamma, I also want you to improve on your casing. I think you are playing well here. I just want you to improve on the casing part, that was a problem some people had with your slot earlier. Like I said to Quick, try limiting your own cases to three points so it's simple and to the point, while considering the big picture and the small details together. Overall, I want you, Quick, and NSG to be working together while I'm dead. At least that way, we have a chance at winning. I was wrong on NSG being scum, I think she's likely town. I want you to look into Shea and Lycan. Let's do this.

[Ranmaru]

I think we should delierate this more before rushing into a marquis lynch

Why did postie die? She wasn't pushing marquis, right? It makes me feel like this is a part of scum plans

Her only other scum read was you, Dunnstral. Her being killed means that they don't need her to push for a mislynch anymore. Postie being killed over any other townier player with more reads in the open means they are wrong, and scum are comfortable with letting them live. So obviously, that makes me reconsider my own reads. In general, we know that her kill signifies that she's exhausted her purpose, and would be killed to grant no further information from her own kill. That is something we can all agree on. A50 says she was killed due to the RC factor.

[northsidegal]

for kmd it started with the bad wagon on him early in the game (where only one of his townreads was on it)

There's already 2 dead townies on the early Marquiswagon now. I'm pretty sure you've said you think Marquis is town yourself, so why restrict yourself to talking about outdated kmdstuff?

restrict myself? ran has been asking about this for days now – i'm simply answering her request.

Do you think math's busywork is useful, nsg?

explain what's "busywork" about it? of course i think having someone else to talk to about my reads with his helpful, and he's noticed some things that i haven't picked up on.

why ask this question?

(I also want to make the observation that it kind of feels like nsg is trying to scapegoat me for the two town lynches before the Marquislynch has a chance of going through. That's probably too convoluted to actually be true but certainly nsg's team's reasons for suspecting me don't seem to amount much more than just me connecting to the two lynches.)

i've given reasons in the past for why i think you're scum. i also get the feeling from the way you're framing things here that marquis is the scumteam's designated mislynch (this combined with dunnstral's later vote).

[Ranmaru]

NSG, don't forget to reply to me. Also forgot to put you at the top of A50's reads, you are his top town read.

[northsidegal]

yeah sorry, was going to go through the thread and respond to stuff but i get distracted easily

[northsidegal]

Dunnstral's meta-case on Tchill seemed well intentioned. Something I'm not seeing come up in the simultaneous Dunnstral/Marquis reads is that nobody is mentioning how Dunnstral hopped off Marquis onto Tchill. Frankly, if Marquis is scum, he's getting bussed hard this game, and actually going through with it might be to the scum team's benefit. There's not much of a reason in hopping off there. Similarly if he's town, Dunnstral is hopping off one town wagon to another. Does he need to stick his neck out for that? I would argue that is actually counter-intuitive to lynching Tchill/Screenplay, because the result you'd expect is the result he received: Llamarble immediately suspected him for it, which weakened morale for lynching Tchill.

When Dunnstral is scum he will use other peoples talking points: when he's town he makes his own.

That's wifom on the counter-intuitive point. I've played with scum dunnstral in a game where i read him right when nobody else was – basically all he was doing was moving his vote around on different wagons. Could you explain what original talking points dunn has made since about the start of day two? i sincerely don't see any.

I have a question for you or whatever teammate is playing your slot today: why the fuck do you attack Dunnstral's meta case while simultaneously townreading Marquis?

Post something coherent.

this is unnecessarily hostile. other people have wanted the opinions of my teammates and my teammates have been yelling at me to share some of their thoughts.

could you explain the inconsistency there between the meta case and marquis? i'm not really seeing it.

[Ranmaru]

No worries. I'll be waiting.

[Marquis]

will elab more when less tired but screw thinks dav is making the most sense, lq is still holy shit scum and doesn't like applying "too scummy to be scum" but if he weren't so focused on that would go for Dunn because seems both opportunistic and having lacked votes or attention for it earlier which is a red flag. which is pretty much where I was at in terms of scum reads at the end of yesterday and kind of am now if I was. like. confident in anything bar the shea postie town locks that still feel good. ran would be up there but I remember having a side thought yesterday about it feeling like he was trying to reopen the Lynch pool for the future and shading common townreads.

Only stance I have rn is that shea is remaining townread, want to reread dav and get that sync vibe and also would be voting lq but I need to relook at my reads as a whole instead of tunnel visioning

Ask qs also it'll prob help me get back in after this wknd. BBl

[Lycanfire]

Lycanfire: Lycanfire votes Shea in his #70, without any reasoning at all, which shows he doesn't care to progress RVS.

I literally said in my next post that my vote was made because I noted CES' vote as bad and wanted to wait out RVS and see how other people would react to it instead of exit RVS. What lack of reasoning is there exactly? I smudged my vote tag on purpose so I could point back to it as being irregular.

[VOTE: Shea

I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan

It was an RVS vote because I didn't want to leave RVS. I wanted to make a sillier looking vote but I somewhat felt bad for Mathblade so I made it coherent enough to be picked up by their web bot.

Do you usually need reasons for RVS votes?

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

This is the entire point behind Llamarble's play. This is a problem I see too often: players want certain other players to flip a certain way, so they stick with their first gut instinct instead of fully absorbing what other people are doing. This amounts to feely bullshit.

Also, we should probably lynch one of the players who has already posted today.

Agreed.

Vote: 'marble

F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.

If we want people to take such micro scum tells, we have to be more rigorous. You can't just lump in a mid-word ellipsis with general ellipses.

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.

Llamarble is obviously putting all the attention on himself to rile up opportunistic scum. CES immediately jumps on it. I don't like Llamarble talking himself up on a personal level - it's pretentious - so why does he post it? It's because anyone that would actually raise an issue with it is crippled, reaching for low hanging fruit.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.

You don't think his catch-up-style entry to the game felt forced? I'm assuming he's used to a spammier meta than we are and catching up on a 4/5 page game seems weird to me. Achieving a natural game entry as scum is generally not trivial, especially given the Marquiswagon, and this seems like an affectation that would let him sidestep the essential difficulty.

Open wolf season

He states he is busy in his [urlhttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=9907370#p9907370]#430[/url] which is a recurring excuse.

What's the point of this comment, unless the point is to make me feel bad about everyone in my life demanding more from me?

In his #932 he states Eddie and Dunn are lynch bait, but doesn't really look into people that are pushing Dunn.

... I expressed this read laser pointed at Dan, within minutes of him posting shit reads to see if he would go back on Gamma (to closely align with CES' reads) or change his mind and say Marquis is scum (... to closely align with CES' reads) or pull another name out of a hat (which would be amusing). He lurked it out... And later came up with Gamma and Marquis.

He returns to his CES vote #1369, while not trying to push the wagon even though he says he wants people to be on it. In his #1575 he states he didn't do much with it or interact with him due to previous pages being TvT, which doesn't seem believable to me. In his #1669 He states his underperformance is due to people not wanting to play, which is another excuse.

Yes, congrats on spamming the thread at that time. You made for a fun game.

He also states my global reads needs changes but he doesn't have solid reads to back his up, especially his town reads.

I gave reasons for all of them. Point out which ones you don't like.

His read on Eddie is mabye scum, for voting Marquis, who he feels is lynchbait. His #1839 seems like a big effort to move from the CES wagon he was sitting on onto Eddie who he was reading as maybe scum.

Mastina's godread was awful. Gamma sheeping that was awful. All great conclusions you couldn't come up with yesterday.

A wagon analysis before he flips, not after. After my interaction with him, he seemed to get better at interacting near the end of Day 2, but it doesn't do much to improve my read on him.

You were going for NSG hardcore for being a lurksack. I went on NSG for having a sucky read on Dan. Again, you're welcome for doing the legwork that you're incapable of doing.

He town reads Shea for being unwavering with Davo's scumread on him, but that's it. It's a bit weak, and he hasn't really tried to sort him, nor did he ask about his direction on Dunnstral, who he believes is lynchbait. Scum. His read on Shea doesn't really factor in that Shea is pushing for Dunn when Lycanfire stated Dunn was lynchbait. Again, showing that he said that only to say that, not actually backing that up.

For the last three days you've asked me to justify my read on Shea. At what point am I supposed to revise my read? If he's town he's town, and I'm not going to look through windows for trash when there's a dumpster right in front of me. I don't need to poke and prod at a townie to stop voting a townie when that flashpoint can get scum to justify shit reads (see: LQ, Dan, NSG re: Dunnstral.) Lynchbait is lynchbait for a reason.

Vote CES.

I want him
You want him
Shea gave brief interest in ces and dan yesterday
LQ said he wanted him on a Marquis townflip
NSG has a teammate saying to lynch him, paid some attention to the prospects of ces and dan

Davsto last put CES at null and agreed with him on some point later on. Focusing too hard on LQ/Gamma, no idea where he stands

Gamma doesn't want CES but is neverscum with CES.
Dunnstral doesn't want CES, got miffed at Shea when he got poked in the eyes on how he was talking to him
Marquis last townread CES two weeks ago. isn't scum with lq, could be getting turbo bused on a dan team.
Dan briefly said CES was scummy then explicitly townreads CES and has offered no new content on the matter. They're partners so who gives a shit about getting his vote.

There's 5 people that want him. We need 6 to lynch. One of the five that don't agree will flip.

Let me ask you Ran: if I'm partners with CES would I be getting this much resistance? I had two critical moments yesterday where I hinted I was happy ignoring all the supplementary evidence I found and would drop it all to vote CES. - 1839, 1855. In your theory where the choice is pre-determined by a scumteam, is there a strong scum motive in calling out a teammate for lacking a continuity in reads or asking if there was ever a possibility in lynching CES?

2347 is your worst post since your global read one. You're not reading into the game in any meaningful way. Just about every point you have on the board to scumread me hilariously should be a reason to townread me. There shouldn't be a universe where you townread Dan's dogshit read on Dunnstral - 927, epic intermezzo (CES, what do I say? edition): 1144, 1698 (double exclam, this one is for you, chesskid!!), 1705, 1708, (makes a post that boils down to "i townread everyone") > 1988 at least he remembered to at least look like he's taking the wind out of Eddie's wagon with the followup post. Back to live! 2318 -> no mention of Dunnstral switching votes D1 despite simultaneous Dunnstral/Marquis scumreads all game; cares more about the D2 vote switch when it really didn't matter. I can't smell what Dan is cooking, because he's a fake chef. Fake meal.

[northsidegal]

NSG

: A50 does and has always wanted to work with you and your team. Right now A50's reads are looking like: Shea > Lycan > Marquis > CES | AD > Dunn > Quick | Gamma > Davsto. (From Scum to Town) Of course I remember KMD, how could I not. I can't remember the details of the posts, but I remember his influence on the game, and he was quite the asset. Now, Dan is someone that worries me. He's getting less and less present. I do agree that I'm a likely kill tonight, so I think it's best we lynch where there will be less support without myself in the game.

i agree with that idea and the end there and with regards to that math has been talking to me about a tsq lynch perhaps being the best today given that it seems that both: he's not getting nightkilled as predicted and that the support for it exists today where it may not exist later in the game. i'm still not entirely convinced and would like to see how the day plays out to be a bit more confident.

Math's lynch order seems fine with the exception of Quick, I don't think he's scum here. I want you to try to convince him back onto Lycan. I feel like you had good points against him. I, myself have been pushing things separately from how A50 has been reading things, and he's becoming more and more right. Yet even so, I feel it's best you try to remain confident with your own reads, separate from your team mate. I want you to try to push your own reads harder. I know that's a thing in the past that has caused me to let scum slip, I let other players experience out prioritize my own thoughts and I let them push their wrong reads and whoops. I didn't like your dissapearance D2 but I can see that it's most likely due to how fast paced this thread has become (partly due to my fault and others). I want you to remain confident and push your own reads. I implore you to look into Shea and Lycan, and compare it with what I say. Re-read the thread. I want you to put the effort. I know it's a lot, but we need your eyes and your thoughts to win. I want you active with me if you are town. I want you to surpass yourself this game. I want you to work with me. Let's get scum.

i definitely will be. just in general it seems like people are getting the impression that i'm letting myself be controlled by my teammates and i don't think that's accurate at all – a combination of real life business and apathy for getting back into this game cause me to be inactive for a while, and in response my teammates stayed caught up and gave me points to go off of so that i wouldn't be completely lost. they also have things that they want me to share, and i don't think it would be fair to them to not say those things just because it might reflect poorly on me. make no mistake – my teammates aren't in control here, i am.

[Lycanfire]

could you explain the inconsistency there between the meta case and marquis? i'm not really seeing it.

Why hop off one town wagon in favor of another? It would make more sense to scumread Dunn over this for someone like Dan, who scumreads them both - except he doesn't care because he's a wolf - Dunnstral didn't have a reason that is more likely than "probably legitimately believes Tchill posting in other games is indicative". The only scum motive I could plausibly see here is wanted to look like a more cohesive part of the town, because the Marquis wagoners (wgeurts/Davsto, CES) aren't exactly town MVPs. That has to beat out "but I felt pretty much the same way so his reasoning is good".

[northsidegal]

lycan i resent that you only mention my teammate's read on ces when that's been my read from the very start of it.

pedit:

could you explain the inconsistency there between the meta case and marquis? i'm not really seeing it.

Why hop off one town wagon in favor of another?

It would make more sense to scumread Dunn over this for someone like Dan, who scumreads them both - except he doesn't care because he's a wolf - Dunnstral didn't have a reason that is more likely than "probably legitimately believes Tchill posting in other games is indicative"

. The only scum motive I could plausibly see here is wanted to look like a more cohesive part of the town, because the Marquis wagoners (wgeurts/Davsto, CES) aren't exactly town MVPs. That has to beat out "but I felt pretty much the same way so his reasoning is good".

here's the votecount at the time:

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.20

Tchill13(4)

~ Thestatusquo, northsidegal, LicketyQuickety, Llamarble

Marquis(2)

~ Cogito Ergo Sum, Dunnstral

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

Llamarble(1)

~ Sauce

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ ActionDan

EddieFenix(1)

~ Postie

Davsto(1)

~ Tchill13

Cogito Ergo Sum(1)

~ Lycanfire


Not Voting (2): Davsto, EddieFenix

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

MOD NOTES

Prodding ActionDan. ActionDan has 24 hours to make a content post.

Added Links to votes for easier finding of votes.

the scum motivation in this switch seems obvious – accelerate the mislynch that looks like it's actually going through and the one for which an extremely easy / surface level meta "case" can be made. also, i can't really comprehend what the bolded is meant to be saying – could you elaborate / clarify that?

[Ranmaru]

Lycanfire

: You saying it doesn't make it less likely you are scum. Point of the busy excuse is that you are using it to delay content and you never actually finished your full reads list as you promised around that time. Just goes to show that you aren't really that committed to progressing the game. You just want to seem like you are town. When I reference Dunn, I am speaking about your Shea read. He was a pusher of Dunn as well but you never interacted with him about it. Don't try to use my activity as an excuse, when I rarely go over two posts. (Only in rare exceptions to I exceed that in cases like my reads list and responses) Here is one read I didn't like: Your Shea read, it's weak. You should have re-vised your reads today but you show no signs of doing so. I'm not voting CES today. What's your read on Marquis?

[Ranmaru]

NSG

: I want you to vote with me. You say you want to work with me, that's the best way to do it. Also talk to me about Marquis, how do you feel about him? How about Davsto and Dan?

[Lycanfire]

you never actually finished your full reads list as you promised around that time.

I never promised one. I was explicitly saying the post I was making wasn't final. I was prefacing the reads I was giving and ended up getting flak over it anyway.

Just goes to show that you aren't really that committed to progressing the game.

I made 9 different reads in the post you're criticizing. On every single person that posted between posts 225 to 324. I furthered my read on every single player on the list.

Don't try to use my activity as an excuse, when I rarely go over two posts. (Only in rare exceptions to I exceed that in cases like my reads list and responses)

you're really lacking in self awareness. i'm not even going to paraphrase what skirt has to say about you, because i don't feel like making you replace out. he still thinks you're town, though.

Here is one read I didn't like: Your Shea read, it's weak.

Shea - asks the questions that popped into my head as I was reading, and even one i would have otherwise missed (#250) sorting of LQ seems genuine (or at least this is not s/s). i feel that by being easily baited into discussing reck's feelings he had first feelings of doubts, and began pausing each time he interacted with a scumread. 265 isn't exactly a 'push', it's very awkwardly worded. (for someone that said "okay we have our first" shea isn't exactly lowering the boom with "if you're town you're not going a good job". particularly in 270 I feel like Shea is so focused on Reck's read that he is unable to see what is in front of him. In 293 he does the exact same thing, in fact the strange wording with Gamma comes back but is directed towards LQ here at the end. My read on Shea is that he is too easily baited into questioning Reck's read that he himself is not putting in the work in the area Reck pointed him in. The entirety of @Drunkards should listen to him talk about the game rather than the other way around.

This is a pr good post because seeing Shea go so ham on LQ afterwards made me feel like a scumfuck. I did pretty much the exact same in Darkest Dungeon but my intentions were meant to be good by getting my highest tr going instead of defending someone that isn't in the game. I'm glad you picked up on this and all but is the conclusion (Shea and I are scum) really justified here? Isn't it SvT, like somehow I felt out to manipulate Shea... Or an alternate universe where a fire is fanned and LQ gets lynched around the time he started getting defeatist about that eventuality? I feel like you saw something weird and decided to make sense of it but really just glossed over the easiest conclusion that Shea held back when he shouldn't have and let it loose when it was pointed out he was justified in doing something besides playing D for Reckoner.

Town. I like how he's unwavering in saying Davsto is free to scumread him.

You should have re-vised your reads today but you show no signs of doing so.

What exactly am I supposed to do and for what reasons am I supposed to do them? All I have is

more

reasons for my beliefs. I've sat back - too much already - thinking about other options, when the scumteam is god damn obvious, and get to deal with unrealistic amounts of noise whenever I want to push the lynch I want. Be less noisy.

I'm not voting CES today.

We'll see.

What's your read on Marquis?

The most sure he was on anything was floating LQ/Eddie as scum. Doesn't fit on an LQ team because of how he pushed LQ (over Eddie) or how they interacted in 456-458. Wagon data for both days says LQ is never scum with Marquis.

EddieFenix(4) ~ LicketyQuickety, Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto
Marquis(3) ~ EddieFenix, Gamma Emerald, Cogito Ergo Sum

like even with me and ran voting lq this is very obviously a dichotomy.

and i still don't know how people are even entertaining lynching me over lq or even eddie for that mastina series of wtf -
i'm explicitly scumreading everyone on my wagon other than CES because it's more easy to believe it stems from him holding a different mafia-the-game mindset and simply not understanding my play while still being town. and even then i know that's nothing i should be using as a townread basis which is why i'm purposely keeping him low priority for now.

This is his best post all game and then he ruins it by townreading CES later. Marquis never gets lynched before CES. Frankly his reads are bad, he's happy to assign null, could easily be be giving as little information as possible in the event of his lynch. If he's the third, literally something like "so are you guys going to keep voting me?" "yes" must be playing out often for the scumteam. Being demoralized could be indicative of being bussed as well. I'm not sure what more I can say-because despite his post count-there isn't much to say, and I'm increasingly aware that there's likely no more than 1 scum in {marquis, lq, nsg}, so I'm more happy with what I already have (he isn't scum with LQ). Happy to see an ending where a gun is pointed to Dan's head to see him ride out the game ending lynch. The smarter lynch is Dan, by the way. I'm the only one that would be allowed to do a meme ending. Everyone else has to vote Dan.

[Lycanfire]

the scum motivation in this switch seems obvious – accelerate the mislynch that looks like it's actually going through and the one for which an extremely easy / surface level meta "case" can be made. also, i can't really comprehend what the bolded is meant to be saying – could you elaborate / clarify that?

I'm going to be real here - I was under the impression that the Davsto replace didn't happen until after this. Maybe it doesn't make Dunnstral transparently towny by way of wagon data, but I liked his reasoning, while for that last part it makes more sense for people scumreading Dunnstral to also scumread Marquis. Dan in particular cares about a vote change that he shouldn't (d2) in favor over the one that he should care about (d1-hinting CES-Dan-Marquis). LQ also brings up wagonomics as a reason

against

voting Marquis... while simultaneously townreading Dunnstral. He later comes through on voting Marquis again, while Dunnstral remains a townread.

Congratulations on posting something coherent! While we're on a roll here can you explain your thoughts on Dan treating CES like town D1, and only floats him as scum D2, and how he voted Dunnstral over Marquis yesterday? Does your readslist take this into account at all?

[Lycanfire]

Congratulations on posting something coherent! While we're on a roll here can you explain your thoughts on Dan treating CES like town D1, and only floats him as

town

D2, and how he voted Dunnstral over Marquis yesterday? Does your readslist take this into account at all?

alexjonesyourescum.mp3

[Ranmaru]

Alright, Lycanfire. I think I'm just entirely wrong right now, and am re-reading my reads and I just see that I'm too focused on you and Shea being the team. If you are town then I just think you are wrong on CES most importantly. (Also I don't care what Skirt has to say, he can shove it, yet I still respect your team because Transcend and Giga are on it, also I do appreciate you not wanting to make me replace out) Right now, the most sense you are making is with Dan to me right now. LQ is not scum. I'm thinking the team is actually [Marquis, Davsto, Action Dan]. The more I re-read CES's posts the more town he seems to me.

SCUM [Marquis > Davsto > Action Dan | Dunnstral | Lycanfire > Shea > CES > NSG > Gamma > Quick > Ranmaru] TOWN

[Lycanfire]

I accept that LQ slipped up in 1375 and had meant Tchill, but while looking more at LQ-Dunnstral interactions I saw this:

@

LQ

: Can you explain how the motivation I am ascribing isn't there point by point? I don't see CES shaking things up. He seems more conservative/reserved until recently. How do you feel about his early Marble vote? Finally, where have you actually posted your reasoning for scum reading Tchill?

@

TSQ

: Fair enough my dude.

I'll get to responding to your case on me point by point after this.

I've said Chill is a meta read. I've played (I think) back to back games where Chill was Scum. Then Dunn dropped the bomb that Chill is a lot more active as Town and that made me feel better about Chill being Scum. But I am still torn on Chill because there is pretty much zero resistance to the Chill wagon. What Llama says about the wagon being primarily Town motivated doesn't make sense if Chill is Scum with the consideration that there is not hardly even a competing wagon to Chill as of last VC.

TBH, I would have to look up where CES voted for Marqu because I don't remember that. The way I see CES shaking things up is in that he has a different perspective that the "dominant" players in this game. He is going up stream instead of going with the flow. So while he has not been a prolific poster, he still has enough content that I would say is "different" than what everyone else is saying to where I think this gives Town +EV if ECS is Town, which is what I am leaning towards.

Which leaves me with a different question: in what way did you dislike the Tchill wagon?

Why Dunn? Why Dunn over AD, Marq, and CES?

Why Dunn? Why is a wagon suddenly forming on Dunn out of all the lurkers?

Again so why not CES, LQ?

[Ranmaru]

----

Scum

----

Action Dan: It seemed he tried to play more of a role during Day 1 then Day 2. He states that for him, this game is a town hunt since he's having trouble gaining scum reads. #1147 Yet, some of his town reads aren't that solid. I also get the feeling Action Dan is trying to stay under the radar, especially during Day 2. His #1698 felt weird, timing wise. This was after I voted Eddie, and Eddie had 5 votes at the time. Dan had wanted to give his snap feelings of the dueling wagons, and not that much else. Two things to note: In Political Corruption Mafia, he was more present then he was here, yet in our hydra game together, he was busy and I was the person mostly posting. (Yet, I had it down on lock) I would understand if he was really busy, but the comparison of presence between Day 1 and Day 2, is pretty visible. I think it's more likely he's scum who is having trouble scum reading town players and has to resort to 'town lists' and note that he did not give out a full reads list. He is lacking less and less presence, and I don't get the feeling he is trying to get the reads list done.

Davsto: I feel like his reads list is overall, surface level. He's still actually in process of ISO'ing Gamma. WGEURTZ, I don't get any vibes from. This is one of those things I can agree with LQ on. (The flatness) It's kind of an issue if Davsto is consistent with that. I also generally don't like how he formats his posts, it makes it hard to parse. LQ's post on him is a good point: #1730 (Second paragraph, first sentence) I think I null read him. I know that he played devil's advocate with Postie on the Eddie case, which seemed townie. Then he makes #1427, agreeing to it. Again, I can't really get too much vibes either way. I keep trying to get a read on him and it's difficult for me. I hoped he would get to the ISO or anything, but still nothing. I think this slot is scum.

Marquis: Marquis's #24 is weird and feels like he voted North to distance. Momo's only take on the game is that Marquis is %100 scum. His overall game besides that, is gets wagoned, and lurks it out and states being sick and other things. In the early game he mentions NSG being try hard scum, but doesn't really follow up with it. Marquis doesn't really give much game related reads, but mentions he doesn't know how to feel about Postie or NSG because it has been so long. #457 This is since his #48, which mentions the scum vibes of NSG against Postie's townvibes. Page 2, and then Page 18/19. Now, I would think that as scum, Marquis would not vote in an awkward way to weaken his position. His position was weakened to vote NSG, which seems like a jumpy reaction. Sometimes as scum, when you feel your scum mates messed up, it's more obvious to you and surreal, that you react to it in an informed manner as opposed to ignorant townies. This lines up with NSG's suspicious play. Also note that Marquis never followed up with Action Dan in his #58. (Nor has Action Dan asked for a response) Doesn't feel like he's trying that hard to do a team sort today and didn't like his shade of myself.

Unvote; Vote: Marquis

[Lycanfire]

sleeping on the prospects of marquis scum

i can be a noise machine without feeling bad: marquis, davsto. need up to date reads on ces. god bless

[LicketyQuickety]

Unvote; Vote: Shea

Damn, that had potential.

[LicketyQuickety]

Marquis still needs rope.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, I also want you to improve on your casing. I think you are playing well here. I just want you to improve on the casing part, that was a problem some people had with your slot earlier. Like I said to Quick, try limiting your own cases to three points so it's simple and to the point, while considering the big picture and the small details together. Overall, I want you, Quick, and NSG to be working together while I'm dead. At least that way, we have a chance at winning. I was wrong on NSG being scum, I think she's likely town. I want you to look into Shea and Lycan. Let's do this.

I can do this. Plus if it shows improvement in results I'll know how to case people in the future. I've looked at Lycan already but I can look at Shea.