Just Play the Hits uPick - Video Killed the Radio Star

[Espeonage]

Also. You'll know I'm post restricted. There is zero hiding it unless I just don't post.

[DeathNote]

Honestly, I don't see a case. What I do see is someone who I am slightly reading as town is pushing on someone who reads null grasping at what little information we have to push for more. You're defense, however, interests me.

Are you not at all worried about what could considered the first case of the game being presented against you? Using the "serious" RVS technique is well and good but... everyone does stuff like that. He isn't even voting you because of your serious vote, more so who you are voting.

Do you plan on addressing that? What made you RVS who you did?

[Venmar]

@Venmar: Ay, man, if that's the road you wanna take on this, alright.

you willingly disengaging me after asking me to engage seems counterproductive from your logical pov

i'll just spell out that if you think that I, or any scum of non-newbie caliber for that matter, would feel the need to hop OFF of a wagon this early in rvs to avoid a "turbo-lynch" on a buddy OR green, thinking it would actually happen, is simply idiotic, and you should feel bad if you believe in it and did it for any other reason other than just to see how i would react. i just don't feel the need to defend myself against the obviously dumb.

i do think varsoon's setup spec as-so-far and general attitude is townlike tho

cd vote stands for now

pedit: voted for elton cause i like ut. switched to cd because of his comment on my vote on ut. simple.

[DeathNote]

UNVOTE:

Hmm... I want to talk about something but I don't know who to talk with lol. I guess I need to go back and see who is in this game.

[DeathNote]

Varsoon, on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being town and 10 being scum, what is Venmar at?

[Mathdino]

tbh the main reason i'm not townreading venmar yet is i can see a pretty decent scum strategy of "do a thing that 1 or 2 people will obviously find scummy, and then whack them over the head with their stupidity and gain mad towncred for it"

like varsoon's case is obviously bad but that doesn't make venmar town

agree with venmar that varsoon is town

deathnote is probably town too (TALK TO ME BB)

i remember bad vibes on napoleon (and godel obviously)

i guess i'd always be down for an assembler lynch but i'd be surprised if no one had a 1-shot vig that could go there

[Varsoon]

i'll just spell out that if you think that I, or any scum of non-newbie caliber for that matter, would feel the need to hop OFF of a wagon this early in rvs to avoid a "turbo-lynch" on a buddy OR green, thinking it would actually happen, is simply idiotic

The fact that you're cognizant of this and that you're willing to levy it as a defense of yourself means that you're meta-critical enough to make the play as scum. So, no, it doesn't make me some big dummy for thinking you're not above first-level play, though I do get you taking offense at me considering you first-level, especially if you're third-level scum as would have to be the case here.

Varsoon, on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being town and 10 being scum, what is Venmar at?

7, probably? I'm actually more sold on someone else but I don't wanna spill all my beans as of now and I'm a lot more interested in how Venmar plays proceeding with my vote on him and all that.

[Venmar]

i'll just spell out that if you think that I, or any scum of non-newbie caliber for that matter, would feel the need to hop OFF of a wagon this early in rvs to avoid a "turbo-lynch" on a buddy OR green, thinking it would actually happen, is simply idiotic

The fact that you're cognizant of this and that you're willing to levy it as a defense of yourself means that you're meta-critical enough to make the play as scum. So, no, it doesn't make me some big dummy for thinking you're not above first-level play, though I do get you taking offense at me considering you first-level, especially if you're third-level scum as would have to be the case here.

you: if you're third-level scum, you would do it and therefore you're scum
also you: if you're first-level scum, you would it anyways as a meta-critical move, and therefore you are scum anyways

oh ok i love these arguments, shows why i don't care enough to engage with them in the first place?

will also point out that slapping varsoon with the above "this move is idiotic" argument wasn't even my go-to response.

[DeathNote]

tbh the main reason i'm not townreading venmar yet is i can see a pretty decent scum strategy of "do a thing that 1 or 2 people will obviously find scummy, and then whack them over the head with their stupidity and gain mad towncred for it"

You can? I'm not sure I see that as being viable.

Also I'll totally talk to you! What do you think about this push? Doesn't it feel a bit... aggressive with no real intention of pushing it. Granted, Varsoon's last post makes it more obvious that he doesn't intend to push it very hard.

I appreciate what you (Varsoon) are trying to do but I think it became very apparent you don't actually care if people vote Venmar with you and that's a problem. So much so that I questioned the townread I had on you.

Venmar, I hope to God you are getting good "reactions" because you need to start coming up with your own cases. Aren't you still voting CD?

[DeathNote]

i do think varsoon's setup spec as-so-far and general attitude is townlike tho

I just saw this. Why do you think thats town? I actually read it as a little scummy. Well parts of it. It felt disingenuous.

[Mathdino]

You can? I'm not sure I see that as being viable.

Also I'll totally talk to you! What do you think about this push? Doesn't it feel a bit... aggressive with no real intention of pushing it. Granted, Varsoon's last post makes it more obvious that he doesn't intend to push it very hard.

I appreciate what you (Varsoon) are trying to do but I think it became very apparent you don't actually care if people vote Venmar with you and that's a problem. So much so that I questioned the townread I had on you.

Venmar, I hope to God you are getting good "reactions" because you need to start coming up with your own cases. Aren't you still voting CD?

i mean it's the kind of thing experienced scum does that just works
just ends up making their entire page 1-5 play NAI tbh

anyway
varsoon-scum correct play is to back off around now considering no one seems to think his push is good
like, if he's doing it to actually get venmar lynched, he's doing a terrible job of it
and if he's doing it to get townreads, saying "okay let's lynch venmar right now" is the worst way to do it (plus people don't actually townread setup spec from scummy players and he knows this)
i'm not calling him too scummy to be scum, but he's doing practically nothing right now to help scum wincon

so yeah i'm townreading varsoon

i am also interested in venmar's reads on the active players

was the varsoon/venmar push the main thing you wanted to talk about

also what's your read on espeonage

[Varsoon]

@Venmar: You've got it wrong (1st level scum would just do the scummy thing and stay on the wagon, 2nd would intentionally avoid that scumplay for towncred, 3rd would make the play and use meta as reason for why scum wouldn't do something so stupid) and are really caught up in presenting me in a negative way rather than grappling me and I don't like that.

@Deathnote: Oh, no, I very much want a lynch on Venmar. I just think I get way better info/interactions pushing him than my other scum candidates.

@Mathdino: I think my scumplay is mostly to flounder around and hope I make it to endgame, more realistically. That and BIG GAMBITS.

[Napoleon III]

i assume napoleon is kesha

Why did I not think of Ke$ha!?

[DeathNote]

@Venmar: Ay, man, if that's the road you wanna take on this, alright.

^This was the point where I unvoted because now I see a person who I felt was going to aggressively push a scum read turn into someone who really doesn't care what ends up happening. His next post, he confirms that he has a stronger scum read but still thinks that Venmar is more likely scum then town. As town, I expect him to at least try and convince other people to vote with him.

I think Varsoon is smart enough to know backing off will hurt him now that he has admitted he actually has a scum read on Venmar. I'm just conflicted as to why he has that read at all based off his push.

Not a fan of Venmar's engagement with, or lack thereof, my vote/rationale on him.
Also not crazy about the whole "My serious vote was reaction-bait for someone to nitpick" angle he's playing.
Gonna stay parked right where it is.
Get got.

^This was the point of me thinking Varsoon was committing to this and I was willing to ride that wave and push reactions out of Venmar. I think him pushing aggressively is exactly where this push should have gone from a town perspective.

Moving on, Espeonage is null for me. The PR thing sounds more town then mafia but could easily be faked. Frankly, I would like more interaction at this point and less "I'm gonna do this kbye."

[DeathNote]

@Deathnote: Oh, no, I very much want a lynch on Venmar. I just think I get way better info/interactions pushing him than my other scum candidates.

I would agree except... well read my other post.

[Venmar]

Venmar, I hope to God you are getting good "reactions" because you need to start coming up with your own cases. Aren't you still voting CD?

i really don't like these two sentences. my lack of a vote change from a

fucking rvs

should be indicative enough that i haven't pinged scum on anyone's recent posting, and you turbo-rushing me for content seems forced when im doing what you asked me to do in the first place; address varsoon.

i want to see how others react to varsoon and i for sure and you haven't given anybody or anything enough time for that to happen yet so chill

i do think varsoon's setup spec as-so-far and general attitude is townlike tho

I just saw this. Why do you think thats town? I actually read it as a little scummy. Well parts of it. It felt disingenuous.

its my gut reaction to the way how he initiated the speculation. the intention seemed fine to me. i think scum would hop onto spec, though varsoon isn't a bad player so i'm not giving him a pass for it or anything.

varsoon - lean town
mathdino - lean town
deathnote - mostly null, incrimentally leaning town

@varsoon: i'm not presenting you in a bad way so idk what you're talking about but ok. genuine question, if you're going to pull "first, second, third level scumplay" reasoning on me, which is fundamentally convoluted to begin with, are you actually even familiar with my scum meta? wiki me for a list of games since i know the answer is no. another genuine question, wouldn't the go-to scum response in the theoretical textbook scumplay that i did require me to also lash out at the person who criticises me, aka, you? or is that another "first/second/third" level play thing again and i'm damned if i do damned if i don't again?

i do think that the harder varsoon commits to tunneling me for this however the more my townread will diminish since tunneling me for a

bs

reason with "confidence" is something "first-level" scum would try to do for townreads. if varsoon is scum he gets to coast from this point on acting like he done got me and it's a valid scumplay tbh.

(im also a super easy person for scum to try to mislynch because of how my playstyle gives so little fucks about what i do and i wouldn't be surprised if varsoon would try to exploit that this early in the game)

this is also already my 10th post so im peacing it unless something cool happens.

[Varsoon]

I'm not a bad player, but definitely not a good one ;P

I don't keep up with people's meta, man. If you're scum in this game, you're scum in this game. It's that easy. And you're absolutely on-point, which is why I'm saying you're third level--you're playing contrary to scum playing as scum and playing a level of wifom over scum playing as town. It's not so much damned if you do or don't, it's that I don't find nearly as many justifications for you playing the way you're playing if I assume a town point of view.

What I feel is really awkward is that you've thrown up a big townread on me and given this "But I'll start scumreading you if you keep committing to tunneling me!"
Like, dude, I've been voting you for, what? One page of the game? That's hardly a pothole, much less a tunnel.
See, this is my issue with you here, it's one of rhetorical framing.
I'm not casing you, I'm 'tunneling' you.
I'm not explaining my thoughts, I'm 'providing damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont play things'.
When I say you're more focused on presenting me in a way rather than engaging me, that's what I mean. You're constantly making these sort of revisionist declarations to the rest of the playerbase rather than just throwing down.

Like, everything in your post 90 strikes me as so very wheeling and positioning, especially talking up how easy a mislynch you are when you've got, what? Two votes on you? Maybe? It's also really bizarre that you 'genuinely' ask if I know your meta, then say you 'know' the answer is a no, then go back to saying you wouldn't be surprised if I tried to exploit how easy it is to mislynch you, as if I'm somehow knowledgeable of this fact but not the scum-meta?

But you are a little right. I'm pushing you because you do react, and because I think your reactions are telling. Here's the thing (DeathNote, pay attention), I can go on all day about what I find scummy about a player and their play, but it takes two to tango. I don't have a ton of confidence in my ability to get other town players to really believe in a lynch (short of dumb gimmick gambits), but I do put a lot of stock in my capacity to get my scumreads to make posts that make what I'm seeing clear to the other players.

But, yeah, this'll be my last post for this 24 hours as well. If folks have questions for me, just bold my name so I can know. Like, comment, and subscribe for more posts like this one.

[xRECKONERx]

FYI: Geriatric Rules about posting have been added to the OP.

[SleepyKrew]

ty

[Napoleon III]

I'm not a bad player, but definitely not a good one ;P

This is explicitly a lie. Varsoon ig good town yo

[pirate mollie]

I'd actually be happy with a long day 1, day 2 is likely to be a clusterfuck with everyone having negative utility.

Can I flirt for a townread mollie?

yes

@Pirate Mollie:

You avoiided answering me. I wanna know if I can trust you in this game.

I didn't ignore your question varsoona! I just didn't realize it was a srs question.

the answer is yes!

(its good to see you too, it has been way too long)

you can trust me

my negative ability literally has 0 positive utility for town and is confirmable by the fact that i won't use it

in fact is there any negative utility in just claiming neg abilities

I toyed around with this in my head, mostly cos I claim at the drop of a hat but reck isn't dumb, there has to be some counterbalance to a massclaim. I just played an offsite game where scum got an extra faction nk on whoever claimed. I don't think reck wld go

that

far but

Actually, Espeonage brings up a really good point--maybe we shouldn't all bust our negative utility powers on D1/N1.
I imagine that the setup is probably designed such that we could get really punished for doing so.


I also imagine the scumteam has some capacity to keep our negative utility abilities from popping off and letting us all go into having positive utility abilities/passives.
So I'm kind of against claiming if only because if I designed this setup, scum would definitely have a factional ability to revert up to two players a night back to their 'need to use the negative ability' state.

mindmeld

Actually, Espeonage brings up a really good point--maybe we shouldn't all bust our negative utility powers on D1/N1.
I imagine that the setup is probably designed such that we could get really punished for doing so.


I also imagine the scumteam has some capacity to keep our negative utility abilities from popping off and letting us all go into having positive utility abilities/passives.
So I'm kind of against claiming if only because if I designed this setup, scum would definitely have a factional ability to revert up to two players a night back to their 'need to use the negative ability' state.

I bet you have read every word

I just hit submit again when it came up with profit screen without reading lol.

is your post restriction that you have to burn up all of your posts on d1

my post restriction is that I have to write WoT that no1 will read so that I will be listened to even less than I normally am.

except for gamma. friend gamma will listen to me. I think.

@Mathdino: I think my scumplay is mostly to flounder around and hope I make it to endgame, more realistically. That and BIG GAMBITS.

this isn't what your scum play is tho. you don't "flounder" around and hope you make it to endgame or did you forget that link that you sent to me oh so long ago where you totally schmoozed a person who neighbourized you. I wld describe your play as calculated and methodical, and you LOVE gambits as either alignment so I am wondering why you are only assigning it to 1.

I don't think I have played on this site in about a year, so yeah I know my meta on players is outdated. but some things I just don't see changing. for instance I think you tend to steer more as scum cos you feel more confident when you have a lot of insight into the mechanics of a game; you know your set up specs and what can actually be within in a game vs. what info you want to try to obtain to fill the holes that you don't know about.

does this make sense?

you asking "who can I trust" is pretty weird considering you cld figure out the question w/o even asking the question.

tell me I am wrong. cos this makes me go hhhhmmm and I think the townreads on you are premature. so we will see.

also i just want to say that the whole back and fourth between varsoona and venny about levels of scumtitude to be really freaking weird is this a new thing or what

still catching up

if any1 wants their brain to disintegrate, posts 90 and 91 will reaffirm your belief in entropy (re: levels of scumtitude) however it also seems like varsoona is trying to sort venny out mebbe? dunno, wanna see where this goes.

rip me if I have to write walls for this entire game.

I feel like math's confusion about how/when he cld use his abilities (not understanding the negative part of his abilities) kinda rings true cos I never thought to ask if it was compulsory but it sure is if I wanna get to the good stuff, and I assume we all have some and I didn't think of this until I typed this out but the roles are probably equalizing so that the game is based on play rather than roles with how we utilize the roles themselves.

deathy looks and feels like town to me. its about the only solid read I have.

venny is defensive but venny gets defensive when pushed and I get that about him (from what I remember). it is hard playing on the defensive.

yo assembler

VOTE: assembler

wassup

[CooLDoG]

will say that i think my negative ability is actually a net positive for the town all things considered, and my self/passive equally so.

How is it negative if you are town then?

I'm also in general agreement with Varsoon's points about the usage of negative abilities. However, if it is something stupid like a post restriction or something trivial, then I don't see an issue using them. We have to keep in mind that everyone has a negative, so I'm not sure how much information scum really get from knowing some of them.

Also, didn't really like mat's response to varsoon's trust comment, could be read as role fishing, but it is too early to tell if that is alignment indicative or not.

[Gamma Emerald]

Confirm and will check role tonight

why haven't you read your role -_-

Hey mathdino, I havent asked this yet but are you a mathblade alt?

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Did you not read the first post?

VOTE: Godel

dude's always scum, let's get a real wagon going

i also got my first choice even though i also lowkey wanted my 2nd

i assume napoleon is kesha

Maybe? What are you seeing?

I sent my picks and then realised I forgot that Nickelback was a valid pick but cbf changing.

Yo
Honestly I might have had Nickelback as a pick if I'd watched a certain Let's Play (the channel) video before picking

VOTE: CooLDoG
new serious vote

Gonna lynch this now.
VOTE: Venmar

It's as though he saw that he was on the quickly growing wagon on Sir Elton Hercules John and realized either:
1. "Oh no gonna lynch my scumbuddy gotta switch gears"
or, more realistically (what I think)
2. "I'm going to catch flak for this flipping green if it's turbo-lynched, better distance myself entirely from this wagon."
The whole 'serious vote' bit is awkward, especially given it's not explained in a geriatric game.
Also, I feel like CooLDoG is a cool dawg, but has blown a load and self-destructed plenty of times when run up fast early on in other games. Dude used a dayvig shot on an IC in one of my games once. Regardless, I feel that Venmar might want to shift some of that huge SirEltonHerculesJohn-wagon momentum to CooLDoG while avoiding any real agency for it.

@Pirate Mollie:

You avoiided answering me. I wanna know if I can trust you in this game.

So bascially oppotunistic off-voting point plus pushing the guy with documented issues (no offense to CooLDoG)? seems fair

going to go ahead and veto all of that overly-explained noise, sorry

Naaaaah this feels like scum
but I'll wait to push this way, have read Venmar wrong before

lol i was sleep deprived when i read that

i understand now

okkkk so i think my negative ability is debilitating to the point of my entire role working significantly better as a scum role

like ability could actually ruin lategame

so bye bye abilities tbh

This feels kinda like a scumpost, like "I'll describe my role as kinda scummy to sliiiiide it in there as a thing that could be town"

Yeah, no one should claim if they've used their negative ability or plan on using it, if we can avoid that, as I feel it gives scum far too much info to mess with. I mean, if you absolutely have to claim it, do so, but yeah. Also, think about if your 'good' abilities should even be used early on enough to warrant your negative ability hitting game early. Balance that out in your head and don't just pop off on D1/N1, please.

Not a fan of Venmar's engagement with, or lack thereof, my vote/rationale on him.
Also not crazy about the whole "My serious vote was reaction-bait for someone to nitpick" angle he's playing.
Gonna stay parked right where it is.
Get got.

Yeah this is true if you're never using your neg you can never use your other abilities so mafia rb wouldn't need to block you (feel like with at least 3 different likely unique roles there's a high chance of maf rb shot)

i'll just spell out that if you think that I, or any scum of non-newbie caliber for that matter, would feel the need to hop OFF of a wagon this early in rvs to avoid a "turbo-lynch" on a buddy OR green, thinking it would actually happen, is simply idiotic

The fact that you're cognizant of this and that you're willing to levy it as a defense of yourself means that you're meta-critical enough to make the play as scum. So, no, it doesn't make me some big dummy for thinking you're not above first-level play, though I do get you taking offense at me considering you first-level, especially if you're third-level scum as would have to be the case here.

you: if you're third-level scum, you would do it and therefore you're scum
also you: if you're first-level scum, you would it anyways as a meta-critical move, and therefore you are scum anyways

oh ok i love these arguments, shows why i don't care enough to engage with them in the first place?

will also point out that slapping varsoon with the above "this move is idiotic" argument wasn't even my go-to response.

Ooh I like this response, nice and spicy
Also makes me look at Varsoon for that "damned if you do damned if you don't" vibe

@Venmar: You've got it wrong (1st level scum would just do the scummy thing and stay on the wagon, 2nd would intentionally avoid that scumplay for towncred, 3rd would make the play and use meta as reason for why scum wouldn't do something so stupid) and are really caught up in presenting me in a negative way rather than grappling me and I don't like that.

@Deathnote: Oh, no, I very much want a lynch on Venmar. I just think I get way better info/interactions pushing him than my other scum candidates.

@Mathdino: I think my scumplay is mostly to flounder around and hope I make it to endgame, more realistically. That and BIG GAMBITS.

Meh I guess that's fair
I was gonna vote Venmar before I saw the post I liked, now I'm kinda townreading him

[SleepyKrew]

why are long posts happening

[DeathNote]

Ok looks like I went 2 posts over yesterday unless my confirm post doesn't count for that. I knew there was a posting rule but couldn't remember the exact numbers. I'll do better especially since I can't really post much during afternoon anyways.

i really don't like these two sentences. my lack of a vote change from a fucking rvs should be indicative enough that i haven't pinged scum on anyone's recent posting, and you turbo-rushing me for content seems forced when im doing what you asked me to do in the first place; address varsoon.

i want to see how others react to varsoon and i for sure and you haven't given anybody or anything enough time for that to happen yet so chill

I don't feel at all bad about turbo rushing you or anyone in this game for that matter. You should know that pressure is the easiest way to cause someone to slip up. It's why I ask lots of questions that often have already been asked.

Addressing the Venmar/Varsoon situation:

I have a hard time following it at this point. For a while, it was making sense but once they delved deeper into this 1st/2nd/3rd stuff (Which I haven't heard of before), I started to fall behind. Post 91 just looks like Fluff from Varsoon.

But you are a little right. I'm pushing you because you do react, and because I think your reactions are telling. Here's the thing (DeathNote, pay attention), I can go on all day about what I find scummy about a player and their play, but it takes two to tango. I don't have a ton of confidence in my ability to get other town players to really believe in a lynch (short of dumb gimmick gambits), but I do put a lot of stock in my capacity to get my scumreads to make posts that make what I'm seeing clear to the other players.

^This I do agree with. Pushing for reactions is the best way to play but both sides can do that. In a way, I think we play similarly... you just use bigger words then me

Reading through Mollies post... I can't meta anyone here honestly and probably won't ever make a meta argument but I am interested to see 2 people already counter Varsoon's meta play.

@Mollie - What posts from Venmar are defensive to you?

In post 66, Mathdino wrote:
lol i was sleep deprived when i read that

i understand now

okkkk so i think my negative ability is debilitating to the point of my entire role working significantly better as a scum role

like ability could actually ruin lategame

so bye bye abilities tbh
This feels kinda like a scumpost, like "I'll describe my role as kinda scummy to sliiiiide it in there as a thing that could be town"

I actually didn't like that post too much either but not for the reason you are describing. I thought of it more as "I can essentially claim VT and not worry about fake claiming." But maybe that is the point you are trying to make. It is a good set-up post from scum perspective but also entirely likely that town actually has debilitating negative roles. I'm not going to focus anymore on this but like that it was at least brought up.