Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Papa Zito

I feel like we should maybe start here?

How come? Still think Zit city is town.

[Cedrick]

Why tho?

[Eddie Cane]

Like, it's hard to quantify. He felt genuine when he was playing and with Lexa being so distant was a lot of my sanity. His stances also weren't overly bad?

[Eddie Cane]

Here's where I'm at.

1.

Alexcellent

has a grand total of 10 posts this game and 0 engagement. He's also currently not voting anyone. I don't know how we're supposed to get a read on a slot that isn't playing.
2. People have praised

Awoo

's early case on Q and I thought it was terrible. I just think a lot of what he points out isn't really alignment relevant or interesting and I'm struggling to figure out how to sort him.
3.

Cedrick

remains my top scumspect but what gives me pause isn't the things he's saying but how he's saying them. He's (1) remaining engaged with the game despite fitz's tunnel when it'd be far easier to mellow out and (2) he seems utterly convicted about what he's saying even if the majority of it is batshit insane.
4. I remain completely underwhelmed by

Riggs

who was my pocket scumspect from early on but like Alexcellent I don't have very much to determine if this is a scumslot or just someone who doesn't really want to play the game. The main difference between the two is that Alex at least shows some depth in his few posts while Riggs is a giant vortex of suck.
5. I used

Havo

to kill RVS early with his goofy declarative statement and after a flurry of posts defending himself he's done basically nothing. It makes me extremely wary because this looks like classic scum UTR behavior; no need to make waves while the town is screaming at each other over Lexa/Cedrick.
6. Speaking of,

Lexa

's gonzo claim and subsequent awful explanation for it combined with a lot of bad posting and recent UTR behavior make me think the others are right about this slot and I'm sorely tempted to move here, if nothing else than to remove a player I want nowhere near lylo and restore some sanity to the game.
7.

Mumble

and

rb

both occupy similar spots in my head where they "feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel" townish but by god they aren't trying very hard are they and I have this little voice in the back of my head (among the others) whispering to me that they're doing it on purpose to avoid detection.

In other words I really honestly and truly don't know where to go here because if I could firebomb most of the playerlist rn I would happily do so

It isn't like he ignored Lexa, he had them as the scummier of the pair. If you ctrl + F Lexa in his iso (I just skimmed through it before you posted actually because I wanted to reassure myself) it isn't all that bad. He lost his status as my second or third hardest townread due to lack of presence and waffling at odd times, but he's still a town read for me.

[Awoo]

Do you really think scum lexa would ever have a reason to FOS me when all I literally avoided voting him the whole day? bad havo bad!

No, really, the reasons for voting me are pretty great though, I totally did play like I didn't want to lynch lexa because I thought I had caught the other two slots so I preferred them 100%, but everything I say in this game gets shot down hard and I wanted to believe the PR claim. You can't fake the GNR flaking thing over being asked questions, that was real. And I'm genuinely surprised the only one who liked my Q case was also scum.

Curious to hear about why people think luca is scum and NSG is town because both these things run contrary to the way I see it. Every reason I give/every investigation I make will get shit on, so I implore you high IQ mafia pros to look into it. Espescially NSG. She was mid-low in lexa's 815 which is the sweet spot to put your partners, and in 303, she was hightown for no good reason.

[Eddie Cane]

I am going to dialogue with NSG, I'll reserve my statement about that until after. But, yes, falls under the town side of things. I will say I have you on the scum side of things, but not by much and you're pretty new either way so this is more IC Eddie than town Eddie talking - even if you're scum, I think you genuinely thought you had a good case. Also I feel like typing until NSG shows up and I am quite bored.

Spoiler: not game related content

You can't fake the GNR flaking thing over being asked questions, that was real.

You're right. This was the reason I voted the slot, and is scum points. However, it was up-played yesterday, and I unvoted because I wasn't comfortable actually lynching a slot over it. Realistically, it isn't that hard to fake some quick reads, day 1 pretty much any position is defensible. A lot of players don't like reads lists because they are easily fakeable, actually. I do them every game frequently because I like mapping my thoughts out and I'm naturally controlling by how much I post, so there are lots of opportunities to change them, but I know lots of players who don't do them unless specifically asked or don't until late game. It's kind of similar to issues a lot of inexperienced (and some experienced) players have with day 1; you need to realize, if I say "Transcend - lock town" that is the day 1 equivalent of lock town. It doesn't mean I won't be reevaluating that slot ever nor does it mean that I have a non negotiable townread on the slot, it just means as far as day 1 goes they look townier than others. Honestly, you're not a great player if you ever truly have someone as lock town for non-mechanical reasons, though saying "lock town" if it's 95% confidence is fine. Exceptions exist, ie Creature, but they are rare.

And I'm genuinely surprised the only one who liked my Q case was also scum.

You did a PBPA style case. Those are fun to do, I do them a lot as scum and sometimes as town, but the thing is they're littered with confbias. Like, if you come to the conclusion someone is lock scum but have no way of convincing others then you go to a PBPA style case. You can ascribe motivation to whatever you'd like to, and while as scum it is conscious and town subconscious typically you will end up with the result you went into it expecting. I could call 1354 AtE, WIFOM, confbias, asking questions for the sake of asking questions, distracting, overly wordy (using things such as "totally"), and probably more that I didn't just think of in 10 seconds. It is very easy to make something appear how you want it to. Your cases on my slot aren't that extreme, but it is the same kind of thing, and that's why people could tell it was weak - you're just ascribing motivations. I hope you understand what I'm saying here.

Every reason I give/every investigation I make will get shit on, so I implore you high IQ mafia pros to look into it.

IF you're town, it is great that you're trying. It's better to be wrong than to just prodge and do nothing all game like some players do. Don't take it personally that you're being shot down, and don't take it personally I'm not going to help more detailed because this could be scum AtE from you. Just remember, I personally don't think you're great now but I have also seen worse by far (and this isn't based on results, it's based on a P E R S O N A L I T Y A N A L Y S I S), and how I perceive you is irrelevant which is the point I'm about to make: even if/when you become a great player, people will still shit on you. People still shit on myself, and even then people still shit on people a step above me such as RC, and

even then

people shit on people above him like Nacho. Part of playing mafia is not taking anything personally and dealing with people shitting on you. It's a game about attacking people, sometimes scum will falsely attack you and sometimes town will wrongly attack you. Some of both will seem personal, unintentional or otherwise. Deal w it.

Anyways, on this note going to delve into your iso a bit now.

[Awoo]

Thanks dad

[Eddie Cane]

I actually read Awoo as town tonally. My problem is his pushes.

1) My slot - Town
2) Mumble - Town
3) Riggs - Town

And, that's his day 1. 2 cases, which I admit sound genuine, on me. Voting Mumble, my strongest town read and what we now know is the town Doctor. Finally, settling and pushing Riggs. I agreed with his reason to vote and it, but if they were scum partner that is not unviewable theory. There's also a lot of soft defending of Lexa - "I won't lynch the claims".

With the NSG push - I don't love it.

Curious to hear about why people think luca is scum and NSG is town because both these things run contrary to the way I see it.

NSG - Hard town for 67, 94, 237 beautiful. 997, 1007 great

Here, you can hear why person thinks NSG is town. If you disagree with this you need to articulate it, because I too agree NSG is town which if so would make this 4 pushes on town :/

She was mid-low in lexa's 815 which is the sweet spot to put your partners, and in 303, she was hightown for no good reason.

Is this your full reason for scumreading her?
(I know it isn't, I am telling you to expand)

[northsidegal]

you wanted to talk, eddie? here now, reading.

[northsidegal]

not continuing the conversation with luca.

i'm actually townleaning cedrick for 1299, i've been in the same situation before and what he's saying reminds me a lot of what i was saying in my own defense there.

[northsidegal]

actually, perhaps awoo isn't scum. yes, he seemed to be dodging around the lexa wagon in a kind of weird way, but i really have to wonder if this ever happens in a world where lexa and awoo are both scum:

Cedrick, why do you want to hammer havo? You know this implies the final vote of a lynch correct? Is this a misunderstanding or do you actually want to lynch him? provide reasoning.

=========
I don't know what to make of Q's reaction to my vote. Made me say "wtf". Here's why I'm voting Q:

- Don't like his tone
- Asking a lot of unnecessary questions 34, seems like the only purpose of that is to """be town""" or show concern for the game
- 43 wtf
- What north said too
- Doesnt understand that im going to win the game 31
- 71 [talking about self voting] [Also, why are we arguing the merits of self-voting?] more useless posts why??
- 72 @Q ok what do you make of this? is it AI? because there are votes on lexa, so what do you think of that?
-74 - doing it again "look at me ive been asking those questions and analyzing" - you shouldnt have to bring this up. your ""townyness"" is being shoved in my face so much that I am forced to question your motivations!

oops sorry if i just made a case on the third page x-D

===============
PEDIT:
Hey north!! see my opener, im taking it easy now. this should have good results ))))))))

Good case

VOTE: numberq

@awoo: what about his tone is pinging you? Has seemed fairly par for the course so far

[Eddie Cane]

wanna post a quick reads list

[northsidegal]

was just starting one, actually.

[Eddie Cane]

re 1360, that doesn't look townie to me . ?

[northsidegal]

from early on in may day one review, think this is where i'm at:

{eddie, mulch, fitz}
{alex}
{zito}
{havo}
{rb, cedrick}
{awoo, luca}

I'm townreading the entire lexa wagon here, so just gut perhaps one scum in {Luca, Havo} and one scum in {Awoo, Cedrick, rb}?

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count 1-5

Lexa

(5): Alexcellent, Mumble, havingfitz, northsidegal, numberQ

(L-2)

Mumble

(4): Awoo, Cedrick, Guy_Named_Riggs, rb

Alexcellent

(1): Lexa

Cedrick

(1): Papa Zito

Not Voting

(2): Luca Blight, Havo

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-02-23 09:00:00)

eddie, i'm saying that i don't think that so early in the game scum would sheep a scumbuddy's case like that and vote with them. it's not me declaring awoo is locktown, just something i think i should take into account.

[Eddie Cane]

why is Alex so high up? we are mostly in the same place otherwise, give or take small things (Havo's pretty high too)

[Eddie Cane]

I guess, doesn't mean anything to me but whatever helps u sort :shrug:

[northsidegal]

so far in my review, alex is high up there for the placement on the lexa wagon and 163. think there's a pretty natural progression from his iso that doesn't remind me of bussing at all. havo is pretty much the null line there – i don't really have anything specific to hold against him as of now.

[Luca Blight]

So you've been townreading me all game, yet because I attacked you I'm now bottom of your scum pile along with Awoo? Brilliant.

[Eddie Cane]

his iso feels pretty weak to me, he never made a big impression on the game and lexa lock towned him for basically nothing. what a shocker, his vote was moved by the time the day ended, and he didn't end pushing lexa but instead Ced. :/ looks to me like some early distancing that was inconsequential - his presense in the thread was so minimal it is unlikely he influenced anyone.

[Havo]

EBWOP

This is from my tablet so forgive me. .......


Hers where I’m at.


Fitz - Locktown for posts 51, 451, 498, 1165. Nailed Lexa from the get go. Great job.

Eddie Cain - Locktown for posts 353, 592, 507, 592, 787, 922, Lexa post 376 money ball.

Fissure - Heavy town for posts 1070, 1076 sings to me, 1078, 1089, 1209. Would be lock town but I know Mulch is capable of scum bussing here but I seriously doubt it.

NSG - Hard town for 67, 94, 237 beautiful. 997, 1007 great,

Alex - Solid town for 126, 276 nice, 1134

Papa Z - Solid town for 340, 514, 591, 687, 1228

Luca - leaning slight town for 393, 495, 1037, 1045 but don’t like 1004,
Dodged Lexa wagon 178,
Defended Lexa 481 post 815 was mid pack on Lexas reads

RB - leaning slight scum for 611, 837, 1220 WTF? 667 pinged me town tho.
Dodged Lexa wagon 281,
Defended Lexa 170, 176,188, 189, 194, 264, Post 815 was mid pack on Lexas reads

Awoo - Scum. Heavy scum for 284, 667, 865, 1016, 1174, 1177,
Dodged lexa wagon on 53, 127, 201, 240, 262, 292,
Defended Lexa on 150, 167, was never FOSd by Lexa. Post 815 is mid pack on Lexas reads.

Cedrick. - Ugh - scummy for 440, 473 WTF, 522, 605 WTF, 693, townie post 466
Dodged Lexa wagon 62, 527,
Defended Lexa 169, 426, 428, 452, 461, 537, 574, stopped counting here. was mid pack on Lexas reads.

Havo - Town
Dodged Lexa wagon 250, 469
Defended Lexa 302, 454 was mid pack on Lexas reads.

[Luca Blight]

I might as well just come out and say this now. I am a one-shot Gunsmith and last night I used my ability on Awoo and was told he does not have a gun.

Now either he is a Mafia Doctor, which appears unlikely given there was no vig kill, or a Traitor (which I guess is possible?) or he's Town. The reason I haven't been going for him today is because he simply has less chance of being scum based on this result.

[northsidegal]

his iso feels pretty weak to me, he never made a big impression on the game and lexa lock towned him for basically nothing. what a shocker, his vote was moved by the time the day ended, and he didn't end pushing lexa but instead Ced. :/ looks to me like some early distancing that was inconsequential - his presense in the thread was so minimal it is unlikely he influenced anyone.

i mean i'm not really townreading him from the content of his posts (from what i've read so far) so i can't really disagree with you here. i do, however, think that it's a reasonable position to not feel comfortable voting a pr claim day one (especially given that that's what i was doing).

[Havo]

EBWOP,

misprinted a post, i put 169 but it is 179

Defended Lexa 179,

[Alexcellent]

I might as well just come out and say this now. I am a one-shot Gunsmith and last night I used my ability on Awoo and was told he does not have a gun.

Now either he is a Mafia Doctor, which appears unlikely given there was no vig kill, or a Traitor (which I guess is possible?) or he's Town. The reason I haven't been going for him today is because he simply has less chance of being scum based on this result.

Hmm UNVOTE: Awoo

Kinda changes my reads. I need to re-evaluate