Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Ranmaru]

NSG

: I am actually starting to realize you are still town (after re-reading previous pages). Honestly I feel Marquis's early play seems like a link to you as buddies, but I think it is a likely red herring. I want you to really talk to me. Start with why you feel Marquis is a designated mislynch. Then read my #2556 and tell me what you think. Then after we can talk about your CES scumread, in depth.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 3.9

Marquis(4)

~ Cogito Ergo Sum, Dunnstral, Gamma Emerald, Ranmaru

Cogito Ergo Sum(3)

~ Lycanfire, Davsto, northsidegal

Dunnstral(2)

~ ActionDan, Thestatusquo

Thestatusquo(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

Ranmaru(1)

~ Marquis


Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2018-03-02 07:15:00)

[Thestatusquo]

Action Dan

: Sheep me. Trust me, remember when we hydrad? Did I not find scum? I want you to trust me, since you say you are having trouble finding scum. Follow me.

Shea

: I want you on this wagon. I want you to reconsider what Reck said. It doesn't look like anyone is interested in Dunn right now. Join me.

Davsto

: I also want you on this wagon. I am thinking CES is likely town. You town read me, so please join me.

Quick

: Join me on Marquis, since you null read him right now. You shouldn't have a problem joining then. Why wagon a person you consistently town read for most of the game? Get on this magnificent wagon with me.

Honestly I'm having trouble with this game right now. Interacting with LQ has made me dread opening the thread and I feel like I've lost my bearings and they weren't very good to begin with.

I'm willing to sheep you for the moment.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Marquis

That's L-1.

[Ranmaru]

Thank you Shea.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I tried to go through LQs wall this morning and I couldn't bring myself to do so.

Like I ISOd dunn and didn't think anyone would vote him based off of the things I see pretty clearly.

I hate when I read someones iso and I'm so sure before hand that they're scum but then after reading through I have to conclude that its mostly gut.

I don't especially expect anyone to follow my gut.

[northsidegal]

Ran, unvote. You keep saying that you want to talk to me but you're not actually engaging with me at all.

[Ranmaru]

What exactly do you need me to engage?

[Ranmaru]

I will engage it right now.

[northsidegal]

I want to respond to 2556 but I don't have time right now. In short I think it's pretty confbiased and you describe why marquis does things as scum but I don't see the actual reasoning for him being scum in the first place.

[Ranmaru]

How is it confbiased if I wasn't even pushing it until recently? I have been flip flopping on my reads trying to re-evaluate, but then my gut tells me 'No this is not scum' and I go in this direction. I think I understand why you have a problem with CES, and I think you are being misguided with your push on him. You are so confbiased by your read on CES you think his main push is a mislynch.

[Ranmaru]

i've given reasons in the past for why i think you're scum. i also get the feeling from the way you're framing things here that marquis is the scumteam's designated mislynch (this combined with dunnstral's later vote).

I acknowledge that you've mistakenly claimed I had a town read on Tchill before in order to paint my hammer in a scummy light; that was part of it.

don't play word games and pretend like saying that his wagon was no better than random doesn't at the very least imply that you're townreading him. even if we only strictly consider what you said as saying "i wouldn't be willing to lynch there" (and i would presume you wouldn't take random lynches), then the point i'm making is that, to copy a bit of your own notation, your pathway from [not willing to lynch tchill] -> [willing to lynch screenplay] was weak.

i also think that since pretty much the end of day one all you've done is made a decision on who you want lynched and voted them – i don't see any genuine gamesolving or scumhunting from you. especially given eddie flipping, someone you had at 55% scum second only to marquis, i would have expected town you to recalibrated or taken a new look at the game or at your reads. instead, all you've done is just say that the exact same person is obvious scum.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

To be fair it seemed likely that Screenplay was salvaging a scumslot upon switching in. Otherwise, T-chill would have picked up the slack himself instead of lurking out. That's on T-chill. (Eddie too) It's bad play to lurk out as town.

You say you haven't seen any gamesolving or scumhunting from CES. Technically, he is scumhunting, and he is pushing for Marquis. Gamesolving, he isn't doing as much as I am, but that is his playstyle. This may be your first time playing with him, but he typically plays in a concise manner. I think Llamarble said that usually if he's town, he's pretty accurate. I think I have a good understanding of the game, and I feel Marquis does too. That's why Marquis knows how to pop in and seem town. I don't understand why you have had a null-town read on him all game though. I think you are also being unfair to CES. He asks you to look at Marquis's meta and you say you didn't look into it. #584 So, have you looked into that yet? Right now the person who needs to re-evaluate is you.

[Thestatusquo]

i've given reasons in the past for why i think you're scum. i also get the feeling from the way you're framing things here that marquis is the scumteam's designated mislynch (this combined with dunnstral's later vote).

I acknowledge that you've mistakenly claimed I had a town read on Tchill before in order to paint my hammer in a scummy light; that was part of it.

don't play word games and pretend like saying that his wagon was no better than random doesn't at the very least imply that you're townreading him. even if we only strictly consider what you said as saying "i wouldn't be willing to lynch there" (and i would presume you wouldn't take random lynches), then the point i'm making is that, to copy a bit of your own notation, your pathway from [not willing to lynch tchill] -> [willing to lynch screenplay] was weak.

i also think that since pretty much the end of day one all you've done is made a decision on who you want lynched and voted them – i don't see any genuine gamesolving or scumhunting from you. especially given eddie flipping, someone you had at 55% scum second only to marquis, i would have expected town you to recalibrated or taken a new look at the game or at your reads. instead, all you've done is just say that the exact same person is obvious scum.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

To be fair it seemed likely that Screenplay was salvaging a scumslot upon switching in. Otherwise, T-chill would have picked up the slack himself instead of lurking out. That's on T-chill. (Eddie too) It's bad play to lurk out as town.

You say you haven't seen any gamesolving or scumhunting from CES. Technically, he is scumhunting, and he is pushing for Marquis. Gamesolving, he isn't doing as much as I am, but that is his playstyle. This may be your first time playing with him, but he typically plays in a concise manner. I think Llamarble said that usually if he's town, he's pretty accurate. I think I have a good understanding of the game, and I feel Marquis does too. That's why Marquis knows how to pop in and seem town. I don't understand why you have had a null-town read on him all game though. I think you are also being unfair to CES. He asks you to look at Marquis's meta and you say you didn't look into it. #584 So, have you looked into that yet? Right now the person who needs to re-evaluate is you.

To add on to this, I made a post which contained some CES meta stuff that I think is relevant here.

post 1594

[Ranmaru]

CES

: I want a full reads list from you with reasoning.

[Ranmaru]

Unvote

[Ranmaru]

NSG

: I have unvoted, and I am willing to talk to you. I will be back later.

[LicketyQuickety]

I can't justify voting someone besides shea right now. Those ISO's will have to wait.

[Dunnstral]

Why do you say that LicketyQuickety ^?

I'll get that read list going shortly when I'm up to it

[LicketyQuickety]

Why do you say that LicketyQuickety ^?

I'll get that read list going shortly when I'm up to it

Because Shea said he would address my case against him. Instead he decides to forgo that to vote the highest BW.

[Dunnstral]

I can actually give you guys an idea now, I think LQ, Gamma, are town
Ranmaru next tier
Cogito ergo Sum and TSQ, davsto, lycanfire are all null
northsidegal, actiondan lean scum
Marquis is scum

[LicketyQuickety]

I can actually give you guys an idea now, I think LQ, Gamma, are town
Ranmaru next tier
Cogito ergo Sum and TSQ, davsto, lycanfire are all null
northsidegal, actiondan lean scum
Marquis is scum

I need you to elaborate on the reasoning behind these reads.

[Ranmaru]

Quick, what's your read on CES right now?

[LicketyQuickety]

Quick, what's your read on CES right now?

Very Null atm. I think people know I had him as slight TR earlier in the game. Now with the Marquis wagon being the biggest wagon and CES who is pushing Marquis as the second biggest wagon, I think it's very likely one of these are Scum, but not both. Marquis is edging out on ECS so that

can

be interpreted as meaning that Scum would rather lynch Marquis than ECS. This would push me towards ECS being Scum over Marquis, but it's not a very strong read admittedly. The other thing to consider is that shea has voted Marquis. Given he's been on and pushed the two other Town mislynches, I don't think shea's vote says anything about his alignment if regardless of how Marquis flips. If Marquis is Town and ECS is Scum, however, then shea is going to have a lot to answer to. I mention shea because he is/was the pivotal vote in regards to what wagon is more likely to get lynched. Clearly he prefers a Marquis lynch over a ECS lynch. I think it would be beneficial if a few people tried to look at Shea's progression on ECS and especially look at how strong his read was there. I am apprehensive to say we should auto lynch the counter wagon of today on D4 if the flip we get today is Town because I think something better could

potentially

come up based on this days flip and the NK. Given that I think it is very likely either ECS or Marquis gets lynched today, this means that I will likely end up on a vanity wagon (shea) for the day and I am fine with that. Otherwise, I am leaning voting ECS atm, just because I typically like to go contrary to what is actually happening itt because, like I said, i think this is what produces content.

[Ranmaru]

I don't want you on a vanity wagon. I want you on the wagon I go on.

[LicketyQuickety]

Nothing is set in stone yet. ECS has a chance to improve his standing IMO. If he does, I will probably end up voting for Marquis. Marquis is likely to not really do anything else for the rest of the Day so that would be the independent variable here.