Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Momrangal]

I am pretty certain IB is town.

[Mathdino]

Brafin isn't Vax, but I think you could reasonably argue that I "beat" Brafin by getting myself lynched with his slot's help.

Paradox doesn't appear to be gambiting. I don't actually know what he's doing.

Umm.. so am I allowed to drive or not after having that??

@Math: Did you include Gamma deliberately in your reads? Hmmm.. probably not. I hadn't even joined the game by then so it can't be that you are baiting me.

But still, man.. you know THAT is why I SR'd srceen in the game you were modding, so excuse me if I'm starting to really be wary of you.

- Don't know what you mean

- No, I was sorting the players and realised I was 1 short of 13. Checked the playerlist, saw Gamma, and added him in under town. I obviously can't tell you why I put him as town.

- Keep in mind Screenplay wasn't actually in a game with me when he added the mod to his reads list. Do your own research.
Also Screenplay was town, lol.

Edit: Okay so that's 3 players who don't like to explain their IB townread, gotcha.

[Beefster]

I'm just gonna wait until everyone catches up and is in real time before tearing this apart.

I think mastina thinks I'm someone else and is mixing up my playstyle with someone else.

I'll gladly chase after mastina/assembler if you flip town. I just think she/they have a good point.

[Beefster]

I'm just gonna wait until everyone catches up and is in real time before tearing this apart.

I think mastina thinks I'm someone else and is mixing up my playstyle with someone else.

FTR, I'd say the case is meta-agnostic. You

have

been doing an awful lot of hair splitting and actively trying to look town.

[Mathdino]

What point? You don't have the background mastina has with me.

My interpretation of her points are:

- The IB push was bad (okay but I wagon players specifically to see what people think)
- I'm playing to my scum meta (her town meta on me is 4 years old)
- Mathdino is trying to get easy mislynches (I can promise you, and you can choose to believe me or not, that if IB was instantly run up to L-1, I'd have jumped off and evaluated)
- I assume she thinks I hate policy lynches because I used to hate them 4 years ago, so she's associating policy lynches with scum-me? Idk what that one's about.
- Mathdino is discrediting the case against him (no shit, because it's incorrect and I prefer to know why)

[Beefster]

While I have only been in two games with you (where you were town in both), compared to that, your play this game just looked off. Just a little bit. There was something uncanny about your posts. Sure, I don't have the same background on you that mastina does, but that's not actually necessary for her case to be valid.

What actually struck me was not what was in your posts, but what appeared to be behind them. Sure, going after PLs is bad (or can be, in many cases) and you can pin a lot of your actions as scummy, but I'm put off more by the agenda that is in your posts.

[Mathdino]

I would point out that you've played with me as a replace-in, which always makes me obvtown since I can just come in and say "FUCK ALL YOUR READS, LET'S DO THIS". Kind of like what A50 and mastina are doing.

I have a long track record since I came back, for people tunneling town-me based on my early game and my entrances. I usually recover D2 because I'm hard to lynch on D1 (people don't like to lynch someone who's clearly positive utility for town).

In this case, I'm at least glad that you're onboard with lynching mastina tomorrow if this wagon on me actually pulls through, because she's already set herself up with "Assembler pulled me in at the wrong time, I suck D1" and is likely to default to "WOE IS ME MY READS SUCK" after my flip. So don't let her get away with that, etc etc. She's good as scum and I think in the world that she IS scum, I'm her biggest threat. She knows I'm entirely okay policy lynching people who are better as scum than town.

Read on mastina still evolving. That scumread is based on the potential mastina-behaviour that would result in her not reevaluating at all and managing a lynch on me. Right now I'm not sure.

GEE IT SURE WOULD BE NICE IF SHE EXPLAINED SOME READS TO ME BUT W/E

[Almost50]

Also Screenplay was town, lol.

I know he was, but that's not my point. The point is when I saw that the first thing that jumped into my mind is "Dino is setting this test for me, because he saw what I did with srceen, so he wants to see how I would react here..", but then I realized I was not yet in this game by the time you posted that.

And it's still scummy, mate. Evidently it's not exactly "hard evidence" as I thought it was when I pushed srceen, but still including the MOD in your read list is suspicious unless you make it clear you were joking.

But I will accept your explanation for now.. I know I almost posted in the wrong game thread many times before for similar reasons.

[Mathdino]

See I disagree that things are scummy unless scum do it. Again this is a deal where people say things are scumtells (lying, self-voting, etc) which is just armchair mafia philosophising.

For example, I disagree that scum more often than town, vote for lynchbait in RVS. I'll admit that I haven't really evaluated acryon's play after early game but I don't remember seeing anything particularly AI since then.

[BuJaber]

Inferno and brafin.. right now are you both scumreading mathdino?

[the worst]

Just like quickly caught up. Still processing everything a little but gut says
VOTE: Carrot and Stick

Replacing in like 9-10 days out from deadline, attempting to sweepingly discredit nearly the entire player list for being "morons" then War and Peace-casing the fuck out of the player who has BY FAR been the most proactive pre-replacements is nuts.

This feels like a ploy to win towncred/town leader position and not an active scumhunt.

Just need to decide for myself whether this play is too poor for scum!C&S honestly


P.S. my duck cuz is reading town to me. Still liking inferno less but this slot is more nullish/nulltown I think.

[Mathdino]

In this case, I'm at least glad that you're onboard with lynching mastina tomorrow if this wagon on me actually pulls through, because she's already set herself up with "Assembler pulled me in at the wrong time, I suck D1" and is likely to default to "WOE IS ME MY READS SUCK" after my flip. So don't let her get away with that, etc etc. She's good as scum and I think in the world that she IS scum, I'm her biggest threat. She knows I'm entirely okay policy lynching people who are better as scum than town.

I retract this, along with the "Mathdino accepts being lynched today on the condition that people sheep his reads tomorrow" idea. I'm either going to get sorted by the NK, or left alive if scum has me pocketed. And even then, I'm likely to get sorted by the NK at some point this game. Too many players just aren't gonna get killed.

@Those of you scumreading me for having shit reads:

Then correct my reads.

@Those of you scumreading me for appearing to have an agenda:

Probscum tbh.

@Those of you scumreading me for being scum with acryon:

I lol'd. I would actually not be surprised if acryon were scum with, for example, mastina -- tried and true strategy of "pair your scumbuddy up with town and then lynch the townie".

A50 is being less useful/good than I know him to be. Seeing that he wasn't in the game when I put the mod in my reads list should be proof enough that it was a genuine mistake. He claims he found it scummy in the game I modded, but there was no good reason to even find it scummy in that game. Giving benefit of the doubt here, but I'm just not seeing enough nuance in his posts yet to sort him differently than LUV.

Gonna go do some quick acryon and Bujaber meta and see if I can nullify some of the tells on them.

[Iconeum]

I definitely have no finished games together with MD. I don't have any finished games with anyone, for that matter.
My read on him definitely leans town.

[Mathdino]

yo iconeum hit me up with a reads list

i'm pretty hard townreading beefster so i'd like to find a different push here

[Iconeum]

heh. I was actually in the middle of casing beefster here... I'll be posting that anyways.

[Mathdino]

fair enough, do what you will

just know that beefster is probably not getting lynched today so i would hope you have other scumreads

[Iconeum]

Don't like the misrep by A50 about me questioning the worst on his IB scum read. I asked him to expand on it, and point out what makes him come to such a certain conclusion. That's hardly questioning the read itself.

His scumreads/leans are acryon and Buj... I feel is weak. I read Buj ISO, and read him as town.

Beefster still hasn't really responded to my question re his turnabout read on Mathdino. He 'changed his mind' but can't dig deeper into it? Proceeds to OMGUS me over that... His 236 doesn't seem right, calling out for asking questions and calls it 'lurking'?
And then in 348, it's back on MD? I would REALLY like Beefster to explain his thoughts process on that entire track.
Also not liking how much he mentions his 'self-conscious' read. The read doesn't evolve beyond this at all.

In short:

Beefster scumreads MD, proceeds to townread him after pressure without explanation, then sheeps another case and goes back into scum MD without explanation...

[Iconeum]

I'm down for a Paradox wagon.

193 'effortpost' incoming
295 does not qualify imo

We can at least force him into the discussion.

[BuJaber]

Dino the odds of you surviving as town until lylo are near impossible. As in regardless of what people think of you or how they're reading you nobody can deny that you are an influencer and a polarizer. Therefore scum keeping you alive is a risky move as they would a) not guarantee they can manipulate you and b) can't be sure if people will sheep you or go against you with the votes.

Therefore if you somehow do end up alive at lylo you would be the lynch from my pov as the only way to explain your survival would be that you are scum.

Therefore going after Mathdino doesn't make sense imo from a long-term strategy kind of approach. Unless you are sure beyond doubt that dino is scum lynching him here removes an obvious NK from the playerlist and makes scum's job easier.

The other issue would be that analysing a dino wagon would be difficult. I could see all scenarios possible here: scum buddying him, town following him, town going against him, scum going against him, scum faking a fight with a dino partner, scum townreading a dino partner. From my perspective I would have no clue where to start with associatives after dino flips. Like unless someone left a really obvious clue the info we gain from lynching dino is minimal.

As opposed to someone quieter or more newbish where if someone TR's them they'd have to go out of their way to explain why and in that you would have an easier job figuring out their intent.

But for the record I'm still TR'ing dino.

[Mathdino]

Dino the odds of you surviving as town until lylo are near impossible. As in regardless of what people think of you or how they're reading you nobody can deny that you are an influencer and a polarizer. Therefore scum keeping you alive is a risky move as they would a) not guarantee they can manipulate you and b) can't be sure if people will sheep you or go against you with the votes.

Therefore if you somehow do end up alive at lylo you would be the lynch from my pov as the only way to explain your survival would be that you are scum.

I accept this and agree with everything in this. Like I'm shit early on but I have a track record of solving lategames when I survive the whole way. If I survive that far (or if we haven't won by then), that's likely on me for being shit.

VOTE: Paradox

Let's go here.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Paradox

BuJ, do you realize how much WIFOM that last post was?

[Mathdino]

I mean yeah, mafia could definitely leave me alive just to auto-lynch me in LyLo, but that would be a risky play and would probably just result in me lynching them before then anyway.

So I'm satisfied with the amount of WIFOM.

Icon, hit me up with a full reads list thanks

[Iconeum]

The Worst/
Mathdino/

BuJaber/
A50/

Carrot & Stick/ will be doing an ISO read here. I feel the push on MD is too hard coming from an uninformed pov, and hedged as well. More forthcoming.

Kthxbye/
Lil Uzi Vert/
acryon/
Momrangal/

InfernoBrafin/
TheGoldenParadox/
Beefster/

This is where I roughly stand now. Disliking bottom 3, really liking top 2. I'll be making up my mind on Carrot and stick later today. A lot of players seem to be avoiding discussion altogether so there's a bunch of them neutral to me.
To be honest, haven't fully caught up yet regarding the replacements, I will be focussing on that as well.

[Iconeum]

Apart from some severe mismatches between my own and Carrot's readlist, 342 doesn't read town to me at all.
It attacks MD as if coming from a guilty result, that's how sure it is. All while saying that MD could 'definitely' still be town.
Every single point that is made to call MD scum, is hedged.

I'm pretty sure those 'associations' can be made if you pick random players and reread their interactions.

Also, I don't disagree with points made on acryon.

Let's just say that as long as MD is playing the town game, which Carrot admites MD is playing, I'm not lynching there. If at any point in the game evidence of these 'long term scum objectives' become apparent, it's time to adjust.

369 even more hedging.

There is no way ever MD is being lynched D1 based on this case.

Though reading through, Carrot seems genuinly conviced of the posts so I don't read it as scummy... Let's put you right in the middle for now.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Paradox

BuJ, do you realize how much WIFOM that last post was?

Yes obviously but I wasn't trying to sell that MD is town, I'm just trying to show Carrot that he's a bad lynch, and for that purpose I reckon WIFOM is good enough.