Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)

[Lowell]

OK, first of all, Your not getting as detaed responce as I'd hoped. I had this massive post cometing on the entire game, and then, I closed IE insed of hittng the Maximize button, i hit the X, and I'm not rewriting that again.

unvote, vote Niv

. I'm willing to build on this bandwagon, and I too think his quitting under pressure is major scum-tell. Usually townies don't quit under pressure, if for no other reason so they can post a posthumus "Bah, I told you!" post.

Alos, I'm Not "quitin". I'm not Samich. I am not going to tr and justify what he has done this gaem . i will admit his play was less tan stellar, and ther is no jutifying that. wat I will do i say what i think .

irst: mafia plaers posts were painful to read. and I am so d he is no longer in the game.

Also, My main suspussion in this gmae is most definatally Near. all gmae you hve talked in circles, focuseced on the irlivant, and overall hepled very little while postin quite allot. oveall I glean verry lttle from your posts and firmly belive you to be scum.

Vote Near

Niv, to clarify. I do not think that YOU are quitting. In fact I give you credit for taking over in a tough spot. HOWEVER, you're still the same role as sammich, who DID quit, which is part of what I'm basing my vote on.

[jerubbaal]

Hehe, I suppose your spelling is the same on any site, Niv. Do try, please.

Dropping under pressure is a terribly scummy thing to do. Townies get pissed and do mean-spirited things like self-lynch to screw the town, they don't usually just drop. He was evasive, and then dropped. This is really textbook immature scum play for day 1. I really like him for the lynch.

Mizzy, no one's being a goober and going for the quicklynch. I hate to say it, but Niv can't really address the point of Sammich dropping under pressure, and that's the primary point against him in my mind at this point. If Niv acts scummy, I'll be happy to heap on those reasons to the case against Sammich, but even if he's under his best behavior, none of it can explain away Sammich's actions. I think it's quite sufficient to lynch him. I'd be happy to get Niv's thoughts before we push for the lynch, but I'm not exactly expecting them to be unbiased. Currently, all he's done is push for the other prominent lynch target, which a scum joining the game late would never, ever do [yes, this is sarcasm, for the reading impaired].

[Mizzy]

jerubbaal

: No, of course we don't know why Sammich dropped out but the last time he posted AT ALL on the MafiaScum site was: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:26 pm. He has not replaced into or joined any other games, which could be an indication of RL getting in the way. My point is, here, that you cannot say one way or the other that he dropped out because he was scum. Townies drop out all the time, too. You know that.

I suppose I'm not coming from an unbiased view, either, because it sucks coming into a game when your predecessor screwed your role up so badly. I just want to give Niv some room to attempt to make his role here look less scummy. If he fails, then I will understand why he was lynched, but right now, I think we may have more information to be gained by waiting, if we can.

[Niv]

Niv, can you describe the format of the massive post that you deleted by mistake?

For example, was it a player by player analysis, in the style of Near's post 428? Or did you go through the thread noting posts that caught your attention like XReyoX's 399 and 401?

Had you read the thread before you started on your massive post or were you making notes during the read?

Could you please type it out in MS word or do some spell checks before posting please? The amount of typos in your post is making it difficult to read.

Seconded.

I was quoting a good chunck of the game and then comenting on it, as though i was around at that time, and wht i would have said after each post. somewhat like this:viewtopic.php?t=6236

I know it's an ongoing game, but just read what my posts look like. it should give you ll a good idea.

Also, i have a personal dislike of spellcheck, i don't like rereading my posts.

lastly, I underdtand that my situation is quite poor, but I really don't like to be locked into my posotion beacuse of only how sammich played. something i sudgest, since many of us (myself inclueded) find Near scummy, lynch him today, then we look at me again tomorow when you can get reads on myself as well.

[Y]

While I do understand you don't like rereading your posts and correct the spelling mistakes, you do have a lot of mistakes which make the posts difficult to read. We'd really appreciated if you'd do it anyway.

Why are you, Niv, voting Near? I'd like to hear your arguments (As opposed to

my

arguments through your keyboard).

[Niv]

While I do understand you don't like rereading your posts and correct the spelling mistakes, you do have a lot of mistakes which make the posts difficult to read. We'd really appreciated if you'd do it anyway.

Why are you, Niv, voting Near? I'd like to hear your arguments (As opposed to

my

arguments through your keyboard).

I'll just type slower, wil still be mistakes prob though.

Also, on near. Overall I find their posts to be either pointless or going in circle for the most part. the area ihated the most was the dice discussion, althoughallot of you are guiltyon that, i just found near really pushed the issue far too much. that really sent me on near. also, i really just think all lot of his post hae manywords but dont say much.

[XReyoX]

Sorry. Got some personal issues to deal with recently and hasn't been in good shape to read things through properly. To be honest, I'd like to be replaced awhile ago already.

Unless it is very critical for me to do the Near case, I really don't want to do it anymore, seems like its not going to help a lot, helping someone to defend for himself.
Niv is my primary suspect.
If there are any questions or accussations against me, please please post them soon so that I can get them over with before leaving, and preferbly in bullet points so that it is easier to get them done. please.

Mod:

May I be replaced during the night, or earlier. Thanks . The reason for the leave is nothing do with the game itself mod. It has been a great game:(

[destructor]

Mod:

May I be replaced during the night, or earlier. Thanks . The reason for the leave is nothing do with the game itself mod. It has been a great game:(

=/
I'll seek out a replacement asap. Unless this takes more than three days, the deadline will not be extended.

.::] Vote Count [::.

Near (4)

- Y, Imat, gorckat, Niv

Niv (3)

- Near, jerrubaal, Lowell

Not Voting (4) - Ripley, Incognito, Mizzy, XReyoX

Six

votes makes a lynch.

[destructor]

ooba replaces XReyoX.

Deadline remains on 11 Apr, 03:00 GMT.

[ooba]

Hi i'll give this a quick re-read a get back with my thoughts soon .
Thanks,
Ooba

[jerubbaal]

My evaluation of Sammich at this point frankly has nothing to do with Niv, nor can it. Sammich followed a pattern of behavior which is possibly to explain by rl getting in the way, yes, but in my experience evasion+dropping under pressure has almost always been a scum MO, especially a bad scum MO. Even before he actually dropped, he was doing the whole spiteful "well, I've got real life stuff to deal with, so screw your questions" thing. It's possible to explain it with Sammich as a townie, just much harder. I think the odds strongly lean towards Sammich being scum, regardless of what Niv does.

Yes, I know it sucks/is somewhat unfair to Niv, but dropping just screws everybody. I don't know what you're whining about, Mizzy, you're actually on the top of the confirmed list thanks to your idiot predecessor. Again, nobody's trying to quicklynch Niv, but he effectively can't touch Sammich's action in this game.

I think using word plus copy/paste might be a good way to go, Niv.

[Near]

Also, on near. Overall I find their posts to be either pointless or going in circle for the most part. the area ihated the most was the dice discussion, althoughallot of you are guiltyon that, i just found near really pushed the issue far too much. that really sent me on near. also, i really just think all lot of his post hae manywords but dont say much.

Doh. I tought I found interesting points about the dice incident. Can you be more specific on what you think about it? Is it completely useless? In your opinion, do you think Sammich rolled the dice in fact? Or do you think he lied?

Do you really find me most supscious? Or is it because you think I'd be the easiest substitute for your lynch?

What do you think about some of the other players in the game? Specifically Y and mafiaplyayer/mizzy?

[Niv]

Doh. I tought I found interesting points about the dice incident. Can you be more specific on what you think about it? Is it completely useless? In your opinion, do you think Sammich rolled the dice in fact? Or do you think he lied?

Do you really find me most supscious? Or is it because you think I'd be the easiest substitute for your lynch?

What do you think about some of the other players in the game? Specifically Y and mafiaplyayer/mizzy?

um, i think that arguing semantics over a dice roll is completally and uterally usless. and the fact that you ask me whether or not sammich was lying about it makes it even worth. who th hell cares whether or not sammich rolled the freeking dice. it was a random vote, and in reallity no better or worse than anyone else's random votes. i will actually not answer this queston, beacuse it has no relavance on this game, and will not help in any way.

also, yes near, i find you most suspicous, however i will not lie that i was glad that when i finnished reading, that i wasn; the only one that found you scumy, as it means A) I'm not crazy, and B) i will have an easer time, beacuse upon reading your posts it should be fairly obvious that you are scum.

also, Y i amreadingas slightly townie, and Mafiaplayer i am reading as retarded; I am glad Mafiaplayer eplaced out, as some of those posts were lowering my IQ

[gorckat]

Don't think I posted in any game over the weekend. I'm going to work and then Opening Day today. I'll post either from work or this evening.

[Mizzy]

Doh. I tought I found interesting points about the dice incident. Can you be more specific on what you think about it? Is it completely useless? In your opinion, do you think Sammich rolled the dice in fact? Or do you think he lied?

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really care about the dice roll conversation, either. I think on a more experienced player, the conversation would have maybe meant something, but looking at Sammich's posting and his...well...ingame track record, it looks like he was just one taco short of a combination plate, if you know what I mean.

If dice rolls and whether or not they were really done one way or the other is the hot topic of your case for him, then I question whether or not the case is anything other than an opportunistic wagon. Maybe I'm not following properly, so please let me know if there's a bigger reason you guys suspect him.

[ooba]

Doh. I tought I found interesting points about the dice incident. Can you be more specific on what you think about it? Is it completely useless? In your opinion, do you think Sammich rolled the dice in fact? Or do you think he lied?

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really care about the dice roll conversation, either. I think on a more experienced player, the conversation would have maybe meant something, but looking at Sammich's posting and his...well...ingame track record, it looks like he was just one taco short of a combination plate, if you know what I mean.

If dice rolls and whether or not they were really done one way or the other is the hot topic of your case for him, then I question whether or not the case is anything other than an opportunistic wagon. Maybe I'm not following properly, so please let me know if there's a bigger reason you guys suspect him.

Mizzy have you finished you read? Who do you find the most scummy?

[gorckat]

I've lost big posts like Niv has. What Niv hasn't done is to at least summarize the findings. Instead of a paragraph per person or w/e, a line or three about what was significant and what you think is worth looking at or basing judgements on- a commitment and a position, in other words.

@Reyo: Were you going to be defending Near in you 'case breakdown'? If you think he's town, then preventing him from going down is good, right?

And never mind. Hi ooba.

[Ripley]

If dice rolls and whether or not they were really done one way or the other is the hot topic of your case for him, then I question whether or not the case is anything other than an opportunistic wagon. Maybe I'm not following properly, so please let me know if there's a bigger reason you guys suspect him.

I don't think you can have been following properly - have you not read XReyoX's post 440, which makes the case against Sammich up to that point in exhaustive detail under six different headings, and doesn't even cover the argument about his dropping out of the game? Mizzy, you've been in the game longer than Niv but we're really had nothing from you yet but advice not to rush to lynch Niv, and one sentence about Y. It's really hard to believe that anybody who was paying even minimal attention could have missed a post of the size and detail of XReyoX's 440, and I'm wondering if you're coasting by on the strength of comments by some players that they believe MP must have been innocent.

From my own point of view, and I've said this before, the dice roll has never been a major issue in my suspicion of Sammich; I've been far more concerned about the "night start" references, the complete lack of any scum-hunting (with the attendant lack of curiosity as to whom the scum might be), the evasiveness and the problems relating to his role PM. And I agree that flaking under pressure, while by no means definitive, is a behavior associated with scum. jerubbaal has said "Townies get pissed and do mean-spirited things like self-lynch to screw the town, they don't usually just drop." I have seen them just drop, but more often you see self-voting, righteous indignation, "you'll all be sorry", - there's a kind of determination to get some kind of mileage out of the injustice that's about to happen, whereas with scum there is no injustice and they have a far greater tendency to just give up.

Niv, I have a lot of sympathy for a player replacing in at 17 pages and for a player who was under heavy suspicion, and of course you can't be expected to explain Sammich's actions. But nor can I forget those actions. I would have voted Sammich had he not dropped out. I haven't voted for you because I'm giving you a chance. If you want me to change my mind you need to do one or both of the following (overlapping) things: 1. Make a convincing case that somebody else is a better lynch or 2. Make me reluctant to lose you by being a hard-working and analytical poster. Especially in a game with so many replacements, a player who's clearly read the game thoroughly and is willing to make thoughtful contributions is going to be a real asset. So far you haven't done either 1 or 2.

I looked at the game you linked to and I can see you do sometimes make massive posts including a lot of quoted material. I've lost posts myself by clicking on a tab's close button rather than the tab itself, so I know how maddening it is, but I've always done my best to reconstruct the post straightaway. It takes a lot less time than writing the original, btw. You just seem to have given up. You must surely have remembered some of the comments you made in your lost, massive post? But apart from a routine "glad MP is no longer in the game" comment, which doesn't help us at all, you just voted for Near, the likeliest alternative lynch, with a few generalised and already much-repeated brief arguments.

[Lowell]

Still here. Will post more when I get a chance. RL sneaking up on me.

[Mizzy]

I don't think you can have been following properly - have you not read XReyoX's post 440, which makes the case against Sammich up to that point in exhaustive detail under six different headings, and doesn't even cover the argument about his dropping out of the game? Mizzy, you've been in the game longer than Niv but we're really had nothing from you yet but advice not to rush to lynch Niv, and one sentence about Y. It's really hard to believe that anybody who was paying even minimal attention could have missed a post of the size and detail of XReyoX's 440, and I'm wondering if you're coasting by on the strength of comments by some players that they believe MP must have been innocent.

No, I definitely did read everything, but I was more asking Near and not you. Sorry.

I also have been on V/LA quite a bit recently and am readying myself for labor in the near future, so do forgive me if mafia is not quite the center of my focus for the moment.

I just went on maternity leave (3 weeks late) and will have time to catch up a little more fully in the next few days.

[Niv]

just got back from bruce springstean ( the boss is amazing). i will try to retype up something tomorow.

[gorckat]

just got back from bruce springstean ( the boss is amazing).

</jealous>

[Y]

just got back from bruce springstean ( the boss is amazing).

</jealous>

???

[gorckat]

I'm a Springsteen fan. I'm jealous Niv got to see him in concert. I suppose the correct tag is <jealous>.

[Ripley]

I don't think you can have been following properly - have you not read XReyoX's post 440, which makes the case against Sammich up to that point in exhaustive detail under six different headings, and doesn't even cover the argument about his dropping out of the game? Mizzy, you've been in the game longer than Niv but we're really had nothing from you yet but advice not to rush to lynch Niv, and one sentence about Y. It's really hard to believe that anybody who was paying even minimal attention could have missed a post of the size and detail of XReyoX's 440, and I'm wondering if you're coasting by on the strength of comments by some players that they believe MP must have been innocent.

No, I definitely did read everything, but I was more asking Near and not you. Sorry.

Mizzy, your question that I replied to was addressed to

you guys

:

If dice rolls and whether or not they were really done one way or the other is the hot topic of your case for him, then I question whether or not the case is anything other than an opportunistic wagon. Maybe I'm not following properly, so please let me know if there's a bigger reason you guys suspect him.

Unless you're claiming you would have called Near "you guys", this question must be surely addressed to all those who suspect Sammich. And I stand by my doubt that anyone who would ask this can really have read the thread. Also, you refer to "an opportunistic wagon". Surely if you were talking to Near alone you would have said "an opportunistic vote"?

Anyway, you say you

have

read the thread, and will have time to catch up "a little more fully" in the next few days, whatever that means. It's a bit worrying that you're

already

warning us how mafia is not the center of your focus, almost as if preparing the ground for further non-contribution, before you've really started to play.